Sportsnet: Who stays and who goes on Senators’ list of pending free agents?

[BatherSeason]

Since apparently all of the "Pierre Dorion" threads have been closed for some reason, here is this little nugget from PD yesterday regarding the UFAs:

“At the same time, we’re just going to do things quietly and we’re going to move forward. The one thing we can do, if you’ve been in this game a little while, is you can do contracts quick.”

“All I’m going to tell you is we’re going to have meaningful discussions with some UFAs, and some UFAs we’ll probably look to move,”

SNAPSHOTS: GM Pierre Dorion wants to deal quietly with free agents | The Chronicle Herald

Pierre, you have been in this game awhile and nothing was quick about how you handled contract negotiations last year.

Maybe its time to start those "meaningful discussions" so that you can start moving some of your UFAs before someone blows out a knee. Leaving everything to the last minute, again, shows that he hasn't learned from his past mistakes.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Since apparently all of the "Pierre Dorion" threads have been closed for some reason, here is this little nugget from PD yesterday regarding the UFAs:

“At the same time, we’re just going to do things quietly and we’re going to move forward. The one thing we can do, if you’ve been in this game a little while, is you can do contracts quick.”

“All I’m going to tell you is we’re going to have meaningful discussions with some UFAs, and some UFAs we’ll probably look to move,”

SNAPSHOTS: GM Pierre Dorion wants to deal quietly with free agents | The Chronicle Herald

Pierre, you have been in this game awhile and nothing was quick about how you handled contract negotiations last year.

Maybe its time to start those "meaningful discussions" so that you can start moving some of your UFAs before someone blows out a knee. Leaving everything to the last minute, again, shows that he hasn't learned from his past mistakes.

You are fundamentally misunderstanding that quote. At no point during the negotiations with Stone, Duchene or Dzingel was a contract produced. All he is saying is that once you agree on a principal, a contract comes together quickly.

If he plans to use that as a means of getting 1hr away from the deadline before he makes decisions, that's not good, but nothing about his quote indicates that.

 

[BatherSeason]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding that quote. At no point during the negotiations with Stone, Duchene or Dzingel was a contract produced. All he is saying is that once you agree on a principal, a contract comes together quickly.

I don't think I am misunderstanding the quote at all. I take it as him stating that there is no rush to make decisions on these players, since he has also admitted to not yet having begun discussions yet.

I seem to recall him having a very laid back approach to last year's negotiations and trades as well and the only deal that turned out really well so far was the Dzingel deal and that's mostly because he lucked out by having Duclair thrown in as a lineup filler for the rest of last season.

He comes across as having no urgency when it comes to potentially one of the most important trade deadlines in franchise history.

If he plans to use that as a means of getting 1hr away from the deadline before he makes decisions, that's not good, but nothing about his quote indicates that.

Like Mark Stone last year?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I don't think I am misunderstanding the quote at all. He is providing an excuse for why guys haven't been moved or re-signed yet. I seem to recall him having a very laid back approach to last year's negotiations and trades as well and the only deal that turned out really well so far was the Dzingel deal and that's mostly because he lucked out by having Duclair thrown in as a lineup filler for the rest of last season.

Like Mark Stone last year?

Lol why would guys be traded yet? Have other teams traded their impending rentals, other than in hockey trades???

You're 100% misunderstanding the quote. It's about contract work, not general negotiation.

And yes, that is what he did with Mark Stone, which is why I said that. It handcuffed him. The other two UFA trades, besides being handled far too publicly, were fantastic. Take Duclair out of that deal and it's still a great trade.

 

[BatherSeason]

Lol why would guys be traded yet? Have other teams traded their impending rentals, other than in hockey trades???

You're 100% misunderstanding the quote. It's about contract work, not general negotiation.

And yes, that is what he did with Mark Stone, which is why I said that. It handcuffed him. The other two UFA trades, besides being handled far too publicly, were fantastic. Take Duclair out of that deal and it's still a great trade.

Well, lets see what happens. Only a little over a month left before the deadline, he better get his iPad warmed up.

This is the more concerning quote:
“All I’m going to tell you is we’re going to have meaningful discussions with some UFAs, and some UFAs we’ll probably look to move,”

This means that the "meaningful discussions" have yet to happen, which also means that he has yet to figure out his "plan" with only a few weeks left to figure it out.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Well, lets see what happens. Only a little over a month left before the deadline, he better get his iPad warmed up.

Yeah, he has a lot to deal with but this is different than last year and I trust him a lot more with deals like this than I do with deals like Stone. These are far, far easier to make and the decisions have less consequence. I guess my only real hope is that he listens on everyone before deciding what to do contract-wise.

 

[Micklebot]

Here's what I'd do, it leaves us with flexibility to pick up UFA for next year or get some contracts back when we trade guys off

Keep: Duclair(@5m), C.Brown (RFA) (@3.5m), DeMelo (@3m), Balcers, (RFA) (@1.5m), Paul (RFA) (@1.1m)
Move: Hainsey, Ennis, Namestnikov, Tierney (RFA), Boedker, Boro, Anderson
Maybe: Pageau (@4m),

Next year's lineup without adding anybody to the system would then worst case look something like this and cost about 62m +Pageau if re-signed (pay no attention to the actual line combos):

Tkachuk-L.Brown*-Duclair
Balcers*-Norris*-Batherson*
Paul-White-C.Brown
Formenton*-Anisimov-Davidsson* (or maybe our 2020 draft pick)
Ryan

Chabot-Zaitsev
Brannstrom*-DeMelo
Wolanin*-Jaros*
Reilly

Nilsson
Hogberg*

Now, the asterisk indicate guys who have yet to crack an NHL roster full time, and there are certainly too many at nearly half the team. So, Pageau might be signed in part to transition some of those guys in, and we may look for next year's Ennis as well.

Basically what I'm saying here is we need to sign some of our guys, as if we don't re-sign at least some of Duclair, DeMelo, Tierney, and Pageau we will be hard pressed to hit the floor. I chose Duclair and DeMelo as I feel they offer the best balance of contributing to the team going forward and can be signed at reasonable price, while taking into consideration the return guys will garner.

 

[GCK]

I’d say sign Demelo and all RFAs. Move all other UFAs if you can.

I think we likely won’t be able to move Anderson Hainsey Boedker.

 

[BatherSeason]

Lol why would guys be traded yet? Have other teams traded their impending rentals, other than in hockey trades???

Taylor Hall?

Why would guys get traded yet? Maybe lets not risk Pageau blowing put a knee before the deadline.

 

[Xspyrit]

Pierre, you have been in this game awhile and nothing was quick about how you handled contract negotiations last year.

Maybe its time to start those "meaningful discussions" so that you can start moving some of your UFAs before someone blows out a knee. Leaving everything to the last minute, again, shows that he hasn't learned from his past mistakes.

Wait, are you not mixing up speculations and facts here? Not that I am super informed on how it happened last deadline but it's something that I have routinely noticed on this forum, people having a hard time differentiating speculation (subjectivity) and facts (objectivity). And not that I am trying to defend Dorion as he deserves criticism too (and I do it quite a lot myself) but at least it should be for the right things.

I mean, since none of the players were extended in the end, how do we know what efforts were done prior to the trades? I mean, are we relying on what Dorion says in the media? That'd be very foolish.

Of course he's not going to come out and say "well, I have tried to convince player X & Y to sign an extension for months now but they won't sign... They don't want to sign below their market value for an owner that they hate, in a small canadian market spending way less than other teams, in a city where taxes are higher than everywhere else and where the winter is harder than almost everywhere else."

I mean, are we still there? People expect to learn what's reality through the medias?

 

[Tuna99]

Pitt: Pageau, Hainsey
Ott: Pitt 1st round pick

 

[bert]

Every UFA and Tierney should go and I have no idea why Dorion hasnt started the process yet I find that mind blowing.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

The only one I am keeping is DeMelo, everyone he's been paired with have looked better.

Also the RFAs.

After the deadline the lineup should be.

Tkachuk- Tierney - Duclair
Balcers -White - Batherson
Paul - Chlapik - Brown
Boedker - J.C Beaudin- Sabourin/Ryan

Chabot - DeMelo
Woalanin - Zaitsev
Reilly - Jaros

Nillson
Hogberg

Ultimate tank roster while giving players like Batherson, Balcers, White, Chlapik more offensive touches and ice time. Give the occasional call up to Formenton, Norris, Abramov, Davidson etc just to see where they at and make sure Belleville has enough bodies for the playoff push.

 

[bert]

The only one I am keeping is DeMelo, everyone he's been paired with have looked better.

Also the RFAs.

After the deadline the lineup should be.

Tkachuk- Tierney - Duclair
Balcers -White - Batherson
Paul - Chlapik - Brown
Boedker - J.C Beaudin- Sabourin/Ryan

Chabot - DeMelo
Woalanin - Zaitsev
Reilly - Jaros

Nillson
Hogberg

Ultimate tank roster while giving players like Batherson, Balcers, White, Chlapik more offensive touches and ice time. Give the occasional call up to Formenton, Norris, Abramov, Davidson etc just to see where they at and make sure Belleville has enough bodies for the playoff push.

Agreed, but if someone wants to give the sens a 1st or a 2nd plus for Demelo I think they probably should trade him.

I would like to see only one of Batherson or Balcers up with the big team so Belleville can go on a run.

 

[Dingle]

Wait, are you not mixing up speculations and facts here? Not that I am super informed on how it happened last deadline but it's something that I have routinely noticed on this forum, people having a hard time differentiating speculation (subjectivity) and facts (objectivity). And not that I am trying to defend Dorion as he deserves criticism too (and I do it quite a lot myself) but at least it should be for the right things.

I mean, since none of the players were extended in the end, how do we know what efforts were done prior to the trades? I mean, are we relying on what Dorion says in the media? That'd be very foolish.

Of course he's not going to come out and say "well, I have tried to convince player X & Y to sign an extension for months now but they won't sign... They don't want to sign below their market value for an owner that they hate, in a small canadian market spending way less than other teams, in a city where taxes are higher than everywhere else and where the winter is harder than almost everywhere else."

I mean, are we still there? People expect to learn what's reality through the medias?

thank you

 

[thinkwild]

For a guy like Pageau there is probably more than one team really interested, so holding off any trade until the deadline might be leverage in our advantage. For other teams, they may want to get him early to give him more of a chance to settle in and establish a role on the new team. I still think Pageau could have a Butch Goring like effect on his new team and so they should be jumping to pay the price for him early. But so far, no team seems to be agreeing with my analysis.

For the rest of our players though, I wouldn’t think other teams are anxious to get them early. They are more likely to see our players as emergency depth, so holding out till the deadline before acquiring them probably works leverage to their advantage since at the deadline we need to take whatever is finally offered or risk getting nothing when they walk as ufa’s. So try as Dorion may, I wouldn’t be expecting any offers for our other players yet.

And of course I always have to keep reminding myself that Pageau’s value isn’t dependent on how good he is or what other similar players got in trades. It is only how much the other team needs to bid to win the auction this year. There doesn’t really seem to be a need for any team to bid a 1st for Pageau yet, hopefully that bidding war develops if we wait it out.

 

[bert]

Colorado has been struggling, Pageau is a perfect fit the organizations have history I am a little suprised he hasnt been traded there yet tbh.

 

[JonnyMacSen]

Colorado has been struggling, Pageau is a perfect fit the organizations have history I am a little suprised he hasnt been traded there yet tbh.

Dorion said he didn't want a circus at the deadline, getting completely hosed by Sakic again would qualify as a circus act

 

[BatherSeason]

Dorion said he didn't want a circus at the deadline, getting completely hosed by Sakic again would qualify as a circus act

Leaving everything to the last minute will also qualify as a circus act.

 

[InTkachukWeTrust]

Pageau to Colorado for their 1st

 

[bert]

Dorion said he didn't want a circus at the deadline, getting completely hosed by Sakic again would qualify as a circus act

Sens are in the position of power this time though, as inept as dorion has been he atleast understands his position at this time of year.

 

[coladin]

Leaving everything to the last minute will also qualify as a circus act.

Not necessarily. Hindsight is 20/20, but waiting for the best deal isn't the worst thing either, as it has been tried and true for generations at the TDL. Blame management all you want, but I would also blame the management of teams who did not pursue guys like Stone as heavily as they should

 

[aragorn]

IMO there are about 15 guys on this team that should be traded over the course of this yr & next.
This yr's trade deadline - unload as many UFAs as possible & those they can't trade can walk at the end of the yr.
Next yr's trade deadline - Tierny, Anisimov, Ryan, Zaitsev & maybe Duclair , C. Brown & Nilsson depending on how well they play or not.

 

[Clayonator]

I don't think I am misunderstanding the quote at all. I take it as him stating that there is no rush to make decisions on these players, since he has also admitted to not yet having begun discussions yet.

I seem to recall him having a very laid back approach to last year's negotiations and trades as well and the only deal that turned out really well so far was the Dzingel deal and that's mostly because he lucked out by having Duclair thrown in as a lineup filler for the rest of last season.

He comes across as having no urgency when it comes to potentially one of the most important trade deadlines in franchise history.


Like Mark Stone last year?

Thankfully, there’s no one really comparable to Stone or Duchene, in this year’s crop of ours. So to me it’s kind of a foregone conclusion most of them are gonzo, as has been the design. It’s like - yeah we’ll talk to you....if you want to stay for less term/dollars than you’ll get otherwise, then it’s plan A all the way. Pageau is the only one who we could really cash in on, in terms of trade value.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't want a circus this time around