Sportsnet: Who stays and who goes on Senators’ list of pending free agents?

BatherSeason

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From a contract standpoint they should be trading both of them. Neither should be in the teams long term plans, they are going to draft a centerman in this draft.
With the Ottawa Senators, expect the unexpected. Assuming they will draft a center usually means that they will definitely not draft a center.

They absolutely SHOULD draft a center, but if he is a "Low Character Guy", Dorion will pass.
 

SensFan1010

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Dec 18, 2019
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I thibk we should move on from both pageau and tierney... white has been looking a lot better of recent and i think he needs to step up and be the playet we want
 

Micklebot

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From a contract standpoint they should be trading both of them. Neither should be in the teams long term plans, they are going to draft a centerman in this draft.

Idk that we can say that. If they win the lottery and draft Lafreniere, do they pass on Raymond, Stutzle, Drysdale or Holtz to take Lundell or Rossi if Perfetti is already gone?
 

JD1

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From a contract standpoint they should be trading both of them. Neither should be in the teams long term plans, they are going to draft a centerman in this draft.
I don't think either are in the long term plans but Tierney is a controlled asset and we don't know how the draft plays out. He can play 16+ a night, play pk, put 40+ points on the board and he's decent in the faceoff circle.... and until the future is more clear i don't see the point in moving him unless someone clearly over pays
 

FormentonTheFuture

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With the Ottawa Senators, expect the unexpected. Assuming they will draft a center usually means that they will definitely not draft a center.

They absolutely SHOULD draft a center, but if he is a "Low Character Guy", Dorion will pass.
naw, the problem is people get way too attached to guys they hope they pick even when we have late picks where the options are endless to who you can pick. I'm honestly happy with anyone in the Top 9-10 this year, after Laf and Byfield it is very close between 7-8 guys.
 

JD1

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With the Ottawa Senators, expect the unexpected. Assuming they will draft a center usually means that they will definitely not draft a center.

They absolutely SHOULD draft a center, but if he is a "Low Character Guy", Dorion will pass.

Man you are funny. Perhaps what you expect is the unexpected and that's why it always seems to you that what the team does is backward. Just a thought

Did your kid enjoy last night's game?

That was probably as dead as I've seen the arena this year. I thought we'd see a bigger crowd with Stone in town. I was surprised with how many LVK jerseys i saw. I expected to see some Stone jerseys but i saw a lot of names on jerseys
 

Micklebot

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I don't think either are in the long term plans but Tierney is a controlled asset and we don't know how the draft plays out. He can play 16+ a night, play pk, put 40+ points on the board and he's decent in the faceoff circle.... and until the future is more clear i don't see the point in moving him unless someone clearly over pays

I'm not the biggest fan of Tierney, but he's decent and we can kick the can down the road when it comes to trading him as he is RFA. I think he sticks around unless somebody overpays or we re-sign Pageau.

People need to remember that we need to reach the cap floor next year. Somebody has to be kept around...
 
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Sensinitis

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I don't think either are in the long term plans but Tierney is a controlled asset and we don't know how the draft plays out. He can play 16+ a night, play pk, put 40+ points on the board and he's decent in the faceoff circle.... and until the future is more clear i don't see the point in moving him unless someone clearly over pays

yeah I see Tierney being traded when he’s UFA eligible
 
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JD1

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I'm not the biggest fan of Tierney, but he's decent and we can kick the can down the road when it comes to trading him as he is RFA. I think he sticks around unless somebody overpays or we re-sign Pageau.

People need to remember that we need to reach the cap floor next year. Somebody has to be kept around...

Kick the can down the road or re-sign Pageau. That's about right. Personally I lean to kicking the can down the road
 

FormentonTheFuture

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Wait wait wait JD1 you defended the Namestinikov deal at the time and said they would atleast get what they gave up.

Also at the time no one thought or predicted the San Jose first to be what it is. I am talking about a similar value return to what the sens got at the time of the deal.

Pageau is atleast getting what Kevin Hayes got last year. There is less available on the market this year too.

Demelo has lots of trade value much more than Boro.

This is what they should be able to get in my opinion.

Pageau 1st and 3rd
Demelo 2nd
Boro 3rd/4th
Ennis 3rd/4th
Namestinkov 3rd/4th
Hainsey 3rd/4th
Tierney 2nd plus decent prospect.

So that would be
1st in this draft which is a better asset than Norris
with a total of 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th + decent prospect/young player. 9 total assets.
Pretty close to the Karlsson package from a value perspective at the time of the deal. Not quite as much but close.

This team wont be competing for a Stanley Cup at a minimum of 4 more seasons they should be accumulating assets to move them when the time is to compete.
Norris has more value than a late 1st in any draft. He was a mid 1st who has elevated his stock big time.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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Kick the can down the road or re-sign Pageau. That's about right. Personally I lean to kicking the can down the road

I'd prefer to re-sign Pageau if the price were the same, but it won't be, so taking into account what I expect their demands to be, I agree. It also gives Tierney a shot at increasing his value with a couple good seasons as the team presumably improves.

If we do trade both, I could see us going after some under performing contracts so that we can hit the cap floor. A guy like Galchenyuk would be perfect if he had another year of term, I think Stastny was mentioned in the trade thread.

From DJ Smiths comments, I think C.Brown might be relied on as a key vet to bring along the kids. He's not the most skilled guy but he emphasizes a lot of what DJ expects from his players imo. He's not going anywhere.

I do wonder what will happen with DeMelo though. I think we probably make a strong push to re-sign him for 3 years or so.
 

Micklebot

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Norris has more value than a late 1st in any draft. He was a mid 1st who has elevated his stock big time.

He did most of his stock raising after being traded. First year in Michigan was uninspiring, and he was considered by many to be a bit of a reach when SJ drafted him.

He's certainly worth more than a late 1st now though.

Edit: Balcers also saw his stock rise this year.

Even so, a 1st, five 3rds and two 2nds plus a decent prospect isn't as good as a 1st, Norris, Balcers, Tierney, DeMelo and two 2nds imo but it's not so far off that it didn't need a second look over.
 
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BatherSeason

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That was probably as dead as I've seen the arena this year. I thought we'd see a bigger crowd with Stone in town. I was surprised with how many LVK jerseys i saw. I expected to see some Stone jerseys but i saw a lot of names on jerseys
Saw a lot of Fleury jerseys, which surprised me for some reason.
 

Dingle

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Nov 22, 2019
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The value of the ELC

best dollar/point for the entire league jan 17, 2020. There is not one standard contract > 3 million, until you hit Ryan Strome at the 104th rank (there appears to be a mix up in Ilya K. and the table is goofy at his rank). the 4 million is at 130. A sprinkling of 6 millions is >150. You don't begin to see high dollar contracts in significant amounts until you are outside the top 200.
upload_2020-1-17_12-8-57.png
 

bert

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Idk that we can say that. If they win the lottery and draft Lafreniere, do they pass on Raymond, Stutzle, Drysdale or Holtz to take Lundell or Rossi if Perfetti is already gone?

If they manage to get Lafreniere I am positive they will take Rossi or Lundell over Perfetti yes. Id take Rossi over Perfetti either way.

I don't think either are in the long term plans but Tierney is a controlled asset and we don't know how the draft plays out. He can play 16+ a night, play pk, put 40+ points on the board and he's decent in the faceoff circle.... and until the future is more clear i don't see the point in moving him unless someone clearly over pays

He is a decent player I agree but they have to sign him and he has more value now as an RFA then if they sign him to a 1 year deal heading into UFA, which is why they should trade him now.

Norris has more value than a late 1st in any draft. He was a mid 1st who has elevated his stock big time.

At the time he got traded he came off a pretty sub par year, since then sure he has improved his draft stock. But if you average its out the pick they get for Pageau is likely to be around 23. In this draft thats a better prospect than what Norris was at the time of the deal.

I am basing my breakdown of the deal at the time of the trade, all of the assets the sens have got other than Tierney have improved their stock since the time of the deal.
 

BatherSeason

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Man you are funny. Perhaps what you expect is the unexpected and that's why it always seems to you that what the team does is backward. Just a thought
Shane Pinto, Lassi Thompson, JBD? Not unexpected enough for you? They may all prove to be fine choices, but they were definitely off the board. My concern is that we end up picking in the 5-10 range and PD goes off the board. No one else worried?
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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If they manage to get Lafreniere I am positive they will take Rossi or Lundell over Perfetti yes. Id take Rossi over Perfetti either way.
Ok, but will they take them over Raymond, Holtz, and Stutlz too?

I'm not so sure. They should go with BPA, whoever they think that is. If it turns out they think Drysdale is the best left, that's who it should be. If they think Rossi or Lundell is, so be it. Worry about filling positional gaps in the roster later, because drafting based on need has a tenancy to back fire.

Personally, I really like Stutzle, so I'd have a hard time passing on him for anyone outside the top 2 guys. In the end though, I do think the top 9 or 10 are all good enough that I won't be upset with whoever we get.
 

bert

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Ok, but will they take them over Raymond, Holtz, and Stutlz too?

I'm not so sure. They should go with BPA, whoever they think that is. If it turns out they think Drysdale is the best left, that's who it should be. If they think Rossi or Lundell is, so be it. Worry about filling positional gaps in the roster later, because drafting based on need has a tenancy to back fire.

Personally, I really like Stutzle, so I'd have a hard time passing on him for anyone outside the top 2 guys. In the end though, I do think the top 9 or 10 are all good enough that I won't be upset with whoever we get.

I do agree in BPA especially where this team is in the rebuild.

If they manage to get 2 of the top 4 then yes just go BPA and trade something else for a centerman or sign one, my point is they are likely going to draft a center. Having Tierney here long term isnt a solution anyway, thats the point I was trying to get across.

I think Stutzle will be a center at the NHL level. I do believe its almost a guarantee that Byfield and Stutzl go 2,3 respectively. So if the sens luck out and get Lafreniere and Raymond then hallelujah.

Unless Drysdale is ranked way ahead of Rossi then sure take him I just dont think there is much of a gap if any. The sens already have so many small d men it would be hard to add another especially with the center situation.
 

Micklebot

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I do agree in BPA especially where this team is in the rebuild.

If they manage to get 2 of the top 4 then yes just go BPA and trade something else for a centerman or sign one, my point is they are likely going to draft a center. Having Tierney here long term isnt a solution anyway, thats the point I was trying to get across.

I think Stutzle will be a center at the NHL level. I do believe its almost a guarantee that Byfield and Stutzl go 2,3 respectively. So if the sens luck out and get Lafreniere and Raymond then hallelujah.

Unless Drysdale is ranked way ahead of Rossi then sure take him I just dont think there is much of a gap if any. The sens already have so many small d men it would be hard to add another especially with the center situation.

There's always the possibility of trading back too if they really want a center and have someone else ranked higher.

Anyways, wrt to Tierney, I think our best move is to sign him for 3 to 4 years, I think we'll be able to get him at a price that will make him moveable in 2 years, and that will provide time for any center we draft this year to become ready.

The good news is that we can hold off the decision with Tierney till after we know where the picks will be, I think the lottery is held in April, heck we could hold off signing Tierney till after the draft, we could even still trade him as a RFA unsigned. I don't think He'd command much less at the draft than if we were to trade him at the deadline.
 

Larionov

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I think that we are getting a third first rounder, albeit a low one, when we trade Pageau. I could see Pageau plus a second for a first coming the other way - I'd be fine with that...
 

Answer

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Keep...

Duclair - Pageau - Batherson
Formenton - L.Brown - White
Abramov - Norris - Balcers
Davidsson - Chlapik - Paul

Trade everyone else

For defense, I have no idea
 

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