Jared Cowen is an RFA

[WhiteLight*]

I wonder in a few years down the road what he will be like if he's not living up to his contract?

If this drags on into the regular season he will be dealt to a team that sucks and will pay him what he thinks he is worth. Ship him to Calgary or Phoenix.

Surprising coming from a guy with Cowen in his avatar.

(Phoenix neither sucks nor needs d-men)

Something around Monahan if he's being unreasonable

 

[playasRus]

I am not surprised one bit by this

This smelled bad from the beginning

We have money problems, and management is trying to twist Cowen's arm

I'm definitely more on the side of management but I can see why Cowen hasn't signed yet: it's the only leverage he has

Can't be about that or we wouldn't have signed Greening to that extension so quick.

 

[Topside]

This "Cowen looked awful in the playoffs" stuff is forgetting the Montreal series where he was awesome and physically dominant. He looked awful against the Penguins but so did 90% of the team.

 

[WhiteLight*]

This "Cowen looked awful in the playoffs" stuff is forgetting the Montreal series where he was awesome and physically dominant. He looked awful against the Penguins but so did 90% of the team.

I disagree with this. People were saying Cowen was good against Montreal, and I thought (and posted) ''where is this coming from?''

He wasn't good against Montreal.

 

[danishh]

cowen was physical against montreal, but his reaction times were not up to nhl-speed.
this is partly why it's so important to get him into camp and ready for the season... he hasnt played that much hockey over the past year, and if he's going to be a key player for us, he has to be ready.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Can't be about that or we wouldn't have signed Greening to that extension so quick.

Cowen is much, much more important to the team and has a considerably higher ceiling

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I disagree with this. People were saying Cowen was good against Montreal, and I thought (and posted) ''where is this coming from?''

He wasn't good against Montreal.

Agreed.

He played decently in the first round, but didn't stand out. In the second round, he stood out for being pretty much the worst player on the ice for much of he series (which is pretty bad considering how many Sens **** the bed in that round).

At the same time, he was showing very good things during the regular season for the past two years.

He's still very inconsistent in his performance, and we truly don't know what his realistic ceiling is anymore. I'm definitely not ready to give up on him, but it might be time to re-evaluate exactly how he projects. It's apparent that hockey sense is one big area where he's lacking. (The original upper ceiling of being a Pronger-lite seems totally unreasonable at this point.)

Still think a 2-year, $4.5-5.5 mil (total) contract is definitely fair to both sides.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Agreed.

He played decently in the first round, but didn't stand out. In the second round, he stood out for being pretty much the worst player on the ice for much of he series (which is pretty bad considering how many Sens **** the bed in that round).

At the same time, he was showing very good things during the regular season for the past two years.

He's still very inconsistent in his performance, and we truly don't know what his realistic ceiling is anymore. I'm definitely not ready to give up on him, but it might be time to re-evaluate exactly how he projects. It's apparent that hockey sense is one big area where he's lacking. (The original upper ceiling of being a Pronger-lite seems totally unreasonable at this point.)

Still think a 2-year, $4.5-5.5 mil (total) contract is definitely fair to both sides.

Small correction, Cowen has only played one regular season, unless you count the 7 games he played last year as a season.

Against the Canadiens he was OK, as good as can be expected considering the time missed.

Against Pitt he struggled (-6), but so did Gonchar (-7), and Karlsson (-5). Methot was minus (-1), but he didn't play close to the level he had all season.

So to single out a guy that had not played in 5 months is just nonsense.

The fact is the Pens just rolled over the Sens, they were better through their whole roster.

Lastly I don't know how any fan can project how Cowen will develop, primarily because most fans have seen so little of him.

The Sens management believes he will be a top pairing D, unlike many fans I doubt their opinion will change over a contract negotiation.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

PW was amazing and did not deserve to be healthy scratched. Yes he played sheltered minutes, but when he was on the ice, he was amazing.

Cowen is better defensively I guess (never seen Wiercioch with more responsibility), and kills penalties. Well Wiercioch has talents and ability to play in situations that Cowen doesn't have right now.

Let's take Hainsey as a comparable. Cowen is pretty similar in impact. Hainsey is imo a #4/5 type. He got $2M as a UFA.

Kadri was a young unproven player coming into the season, and a lot of coaches start these types of players off with limited ice time. It doesn't mean he's worse than Bozak.

Sorry but MacLean and I both disagree with you. PW was brutal against teams that used a physical forecheck or were physical in general.

At this point in time PW is a 5/6 that will see PP time until he can learn to play D like Gonchar, but that will take time.

Interesting that you used a TOI stat that pushes Cowen down a spot by 13 seconds, yet suggest a coach might bring in a young player like Kadri by limiting ice time.

Well the fact is Cowen was a younger player in 2011-12 than Kadri was last season. In fact Cowen played in all 82 games and was fourth amongst all the Sens D in TOI, ES TOI and lead in PK TOI and missed the 4th place ranking for TOI/Game by a mere 13 seconds.

So following that logic Cowen must have been more NHL ready at 21 than Kadri was at 23, right?

I won't make the leap that it proves one is worth more than the other because those decision are too subjective. However I believe Cowen's value to the Sens is at least equal to Kadri's value to the Leafs.

BTW Comparing Cowen, a 22 year old, to Hainsey a 32 year old journey D is just idiotic.

 

[Cat Herder]

https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/status/378523648153227265

Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch

Tim Murray says Jared Cowen should be in camp. Says they have made "fair" proposals to his camp. Their camp is asking for too much. #Sens

 

[DylanSensFan]

Likely they are waiting for an offer sheet, to force the Senators hand.

 

[SixthSens]

Brent Wallace ‏@tsn_wally 1m
Sens asst GM Tim Murray says the contract talks with Cowen are "at a stalemate" right now. They have agreed on a 4yr term but far apart on $

 

[Inf4mous0ne]

At least they have term settled #silverlining

 

[Cat Herder]

SunGarrioch 10:28am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

"I guess we're at a stalemate. I think we really stepped up on our last proposal," says Murray. #Sens (Tim Murray)

T. Murray: "We think that (our offer) is way beyond any statistical comparables." #Cowen

SunGarrioch 10:26am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Last talked Monday and Tuesday with Cowen. Have exchanged proposals. #Sens

SunGarrioch 10:23am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Murray says he'd like a face to face meeting with Cowen in Saskatoon Monday. #Sens

SunGarrioch 10:22am via Twitter for BlackBerry®

Murray confirms they made 8 year offer. They r talking 4 year deal now. #Sens

 

[Cat Herder]

HockeyScanner 10:26am via Twitter for iPhone

Cowen's agent not moving much off a # he has clung to for weeks, says asst GM Murray. "I guess we're at a stalemate." Last talked Tuesday.

I read another TWeet which I cant find that says the Sens offered 2.8million per year and Cowen's camp wants 3.2 per

Personally I think they Sens should just stop negotiating now... if he doesnt sign by Dec 1st he will sit the year... (learn some humility kid or get and agent that has your long term best interests in mind)

 

[WhiteLight*]

Sorry but MacLean and I both disagree with you. PW was brutal against teams that used a physical forecheck or were physical in general.

Nope he wasn't. Maybe he wasn't exceptional in that case but he was never brutal. It rarely ended up in the back of the net. I think it was more fear that he would be if given more responsibility, and not that he was.

At this point in time PW is a 5/6 that will see PP time until he can learn to play D like Gonchar, but that will take time.

Maybe, but he brings a ton to that PP. He's better on the PP than Karlsson.

#5/6 at even strength + amazing PP contributor is roughly = in dollars to a #4/5 D who plays PK, imo

you gotta pay more for offense

Interesting that you used a TOI stat that pushes Cowen down a spot by 13 seconds, yet suggest a coach might bring in a young player like Kadri by limiting ice time.

And I'm not saying Cowen was strictly the #5. If you notice I keep calling him a #4/5, which does imply he spent time on the 2nd pair. What I take offence to is strictly calling him a 2nd pair d-man because:
1-Phillips had more ice time
2-He got bumped in the playoffs in favour of said player^

Well the fact is Cowen was a younger player in 2011-12 than Kadri was last season. In fact Cowen played in all 82 games and was fourth amongst all the Sens D in TOI, ES TOI and lead in PK TOI and missed the 4th place ranking for TOI/Game by a mere 13 seconds.

The are similarly aged at this point in time and Kadri has performed better thus far into his career. Therefore Kadri deserves more money.

Like I said, ice time is less significant for forwards. In fact, Kadri producing so much with little ice time is in fact MORE impressive.

But I'll humor you and play the ice time game. Kadri was 6th amongst Leafs forwards (5th in TOTAL, which is irrelevant imo). He is a top 6 forward. Cowen was 5th in per game. Usually top 6 forward is comparable to top 4 defenseman, which Cowen is not.

So following that logic Cowen must have been more NHL ready at 21 than Kadri was at 23, right?

Kadri is not even 23 yet, let alone being 23 at the time of the season.

Also, it's irrelevant. It's 2013, not 2012. In order to decide what they should be payed now, should we start examining how good each player was 16 too? Each has one ''good'' season, and Kadri's was better.

I won't make the leap that it proves one is worth more than the other because those decision are too subjective. However I believe Cowen's value to the Sens is at least equal to Kadri's value to the Leafs.

Murray disagrees with you.

I doubt the Leafs make the playoffs without Kadri. The Sens didn't miss a beat without Cowen.

BTW Comparing Cowen, a 22 year old, to Hainsey a 32 year old journey D is just idiotic.

???

I'm not talking trade here; Cowen obviously has way more trade value. I'm talking about contracts.

1. UFA should be paid more than RFA
2. Hainsey is a #4/5 type, or least was last year.
3. Cowen was a #4/5 type during his last (only) full season.

If anything, Hainsey is safer than Cowen to repeat his season because he is a seasoned vet, he didn't miss a season, and is in training camp.


Thinking Cowen should be paid more than a comparable vet short term is idiotic. You should NOT pay for potential on short term deals, you should pay based on what the player has accomplished/shown to be so far.

There's no problem paying for potential on a long term deal. In fact I want Cowen to sign the 8 year 3.5 per deal. But not on a 1-2 year deal. No freaking way.



IMO, Cowen thinks the Sens owe him because he didn't get his NHL salary last year when he was hurt.

 

[saskriders]

I wonder how much easier it would be to sign contracts without agents

 

[Very Stable Genius]

lol Cowen just take the 2.8/yr you greedy SOB.

 

[Cat Herder]

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/senators-cowen-remain-far-apart-on-contract

 

[Inf4mous0ne]

2.8 is really fair lol

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Let him sit out. Give the extra ice time to PW.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Let him sit out. Give the extra ice time to PW.

this

 

[harrisb]

So what happens if a player sits out? Does it still burn an RFA year?

 

[The Fuhr*]

He's leaving 3-4 million on the table taking that.

 

[harrisb]

He's leaving 3-4 million on the table taking that.

So you believe he is worth 3.55 over 4 years???? You can't be serious, what other player coming off ELC signing a contract which does not burn UFA years is getting that? He'd be well overpaid for the first 2 years at least and that is providing he stays healthy which is a big IF.