Jared Cowen is an RFA

[Indrew]

It's a smart way to 'miss' training camp.

 

[salomonster]

Cowen's getting some very bad advice.

His party is not at all in a position to try to get more out of a guy who needs to be on the ice like right now... 9:15 Sens hit the ice.

Sign and report!

 

[Larionov]

Cowens full season here two years ago.
17Pts 218Hits
3:08PK (2nd to Kuba)

He obviously sees himself as the teams top PK defenseman... He's slotted on the 2nd pair this year... He's a physical monster... And has untapped offensive potential

What do you think his market value is with a 75 million dollar cap? And he's
- Teams top PK defenseman
- Plays over 20 minutes a game
- 25-30Pts
- 220+ hits

Two years from now... Those numbers he's demanding 5.5 per

This is exactly why Cowen's camp doesn't want to sign an eight year deal for $3.5 million a year. He feels that two years from now, he can hit the lotto, especially with a rapidly rising cap.

This is a tough one - I understand Cowen's reluctance to get lowballed, but at the same time he really needs to be on the ice right now. Guys who miss camp just never seem to get untracked, and almost always seem to go to on to disappointing seasons. Unfortunately, this one seems destined to drag on for a while...

 

[OttawaSenators11]

How long does this have to drag on until Melnyk says something negative about his agent?

 

[Larionov]

How long does this have to drag on until Melnyk says something negative about his agent?

Probably the next time Eugene has a few refreshments and feels the need to unburden himself to Bob McCown on Toronto radio...

 

[OgieO]

Haved there been any leaks/rumors as to what the Sens multiple offers were?

 

[YNWA14]

Still wish we had traded him for Edmonton's 1st rounder.

 

[BK201]

Still wish we had traded him for Edmonton's 1st rounder.

Was that an option at one point? And which season? I know the RNH draft they asked for Karlsson but I don't remember them asking for Cowen.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I am not surprised one bit by this

This smelled bad from the beginning

We have money problems, and management is trying to twist Cowen's arm

I'm definitely more on the side of management but I can see why Cowen hasn't signed yet: it's the only leverage he has

 

[NyQuil]

As much as I like Cowen, he has one season under his belt.

Pay your dues, and you'll get paid.

 

[Caseus]

There is a clause like that... I believe it's December 1st

Yeah didn't they throw that in after the stunt Niedermeyer pulled?

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

I am not surprised one bit by this

This smelled bad from the beginning

We have money problems, and management is trying to twist Cowen's arm

I'm definitely more on the side of management but I can see why Cowen hasn't signed yet: it's the only leverage he has

They twisted his arm by offering multiple contracts of varying degrees of term and salary...?

What jerks!

 

[NyQuil]

They twisted his arm by offering multiple contracts of varying degrees of term and salary...?

What jerks!

They massaged his arm aggressively.

 

[The Fuhr*]

They twisted his arm by offering multiple contracts of varying degrees of term and salary...?

What jerks!

Read Cowens camp countered with 4Yrs 14 million

 

[StefanW]

Read Cowens camp countered with 4Yrs 14 million

Yeah, I have heard they offered 3.5 AAV without including UFA years. That is the big problem, because the Sens are only willing to go up to 3.5 AAV for him if they buy a couple of UFA seasons in the process.

 

[StefanW]

That MAY be his role this season. Maybe. But he has never played as a #3 before nor played at a #3 level for an extended period of time.

Cowen was a 4/5 D in his rookie season. Spent some time on the 2nd pair but actually ended up with less ice time than Phillips and played 3rd pair in the playoffs in 2012.

You are repeating the same mistake you made in your previous post (comparison to Kadri). If you want to use the logic of where the player is currently slotted, or ice time, then you should do the same for Kadri. Both were protected with slightly less ice time than you would expect and both were playing on lower lines than where they are projected. And that is exactly how both should have been handled as young players gaining confidence in the league.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

.Cowen was a 4/5 D in his rookie season. Spent some time on the 2nd pair but actually ended up with less ice time than Phillips and played 3rd pair in the playoffs in 2012.

Cowen was 4th in TOI, ES TOI, and lead the D in SH TOI.

Cowen played first line minutes with Karlsson for a short stretch, then struggled a little and was moved down the lineup.

Wiercioch was amazing this year. Amazing production and rarely ever got scored on.

I happen to like PW's game a lot, have for several years, but he was not amazing. Yes he made some beautiful passes and yes he was productive, but he was played sheltered minutes and was a healthy scratch numerous games rotating with Benoit.

In Cowen's rookie year he was never a healthy scratch, nor was he played sheltered minutes.

Sure Cowen has logged more ice in the past and plays the PK. I'd say they are worth about the same at this point.

I also believe Cowen is a future top pair D, but that doesn't mean he's played like one so far nor does that he should get big bucks.

I respect your opinion on Cowen = Weircoich in terms of dollars, I just respectfully disagree.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by big bucks. In today's NHL $2.5M isn't big money. That said if Cowen is asking for more than $2.7M per season on a 2 year deal, then it is too much IMO.

Kadri - Lupul vs Bozak - Kessel. First those are the pairs for chemistry purposes and second Kadri and Lupul are arguably the 1st line.

Do you really think Bozak > Kadri? Any sane hockey fan would tell you otherwise.

Kadri was sixth out of seven Leaf forwards in ES TOI playing all 48 games. He was behind both Bozak and Grabo for ES TOI and Bozak played two fewer games.

The minutes played don't seem to indicate Carlyle thought Kadri was his #1 center.

I am not taking anything away from Kadri's season, he was very productive. However I don't evaluate a player based on points alone, and I don't see Kadri as the better player today.

What I do see is Kadri is a more aggressive offensive player than Bozak, but that doesn't always equate to a good #1 center.

Time will tell.

 

[harrisb]

Read Cowens camp countered with 4Yrs 14 million

Is he UFA at the end of that or RFA? I'd do 4 x 3m if he is still RFA

 

[Do Make Say Think]

They twisted his arm by offering multiple contracts of varying degrees of term and salary...?

What jerks!

Ottawa has the higher ground in these negotiation and are trying to get their way

It's fine, it's how it should be

But let's be honest and recognize that Cowen has no recourse and the only leverage he has is a hold-out

I'm not saying Cowen isn't making unreasonnable demands (I have no idea what's going on outside of that 8 year deal proposal) but that's the reality of things

If things were going smoothly he'd be signed

He isn't, telling me there's a tension in the talks and I'm pretty confident that Cowen feels his back is against the wall

In terms of real world production Cowen has 90 games with decent stats but nothing out of this world: he knows how valuable he is but has no way to make it count because of his limited play time, no arbitration and Hamonic's contract (which I think is being used by the Senators as a comparable, and rightly so)

 

[Wham City]

In Cowen's rookie year he was never a healthy scratch, nor was he played sheltered minutes.

He was sheltered at even-strength in 2011/12. Among regular D Cowen played the 5th hardest opposition, and started in the offensive zone 56.8% of the time.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

kadri scored 44 points in a shortened season (that's more than #1 center bozak). to put that into context, if he failed to score another point and the season went on for 82 games, he would have finished inside the top 60 for center scoring based on our last full season. six more points in 34 games gets him into the top 40. nine more points in those games gets him into the top 30. while it's unknown if he can keep up that kind of scoring pace, those were impressive numbers he posted this year. actually looking at what he did as opposed to saying "he played less than bozak", it gets a lot harder to argue against kadri>cowen at this point in time.

cowen has played shared #4 minutes with phillips (with phillips actually getting more minutes for game, but only slightly so i decided to say they shared the role). he looked good there. sometimes he looked outstanding. it was encouraging, but he hasn't done anything that compares to the season kadri just had.

saying kadri is better than cowen at this point is totally reasonable. as for who will be better in the future: there are too many variables to predict, then you have to compare two different playing styles and positions. no one knows for sure.

Only if one measures better by the number of points produced in a 48 game time span.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

He was sheltered at even-strength in 2011/12. Among regular D Cowen played the 5th hardest opposition, and started in the offensive zone 56.8% of the time.

Sorry but what exactly is the fifth hardest opposition when there are only four lines on a team??

Rhetorical question, I know where this stuff comes from.

 

[Wham City]

Sorry but what exactly is the fifth hardest opposition when there are only four lines on a team??

Rhetorical question, I know where this stuff comes from.

You sound like you do.

 

[WhiteLight*]

kadri scored 44 points in a shortened season (that's more than #1 center bozak). to put that into context, if he failed to score another point and the season went on for 82 games, he would have finished inside the top 60 for center scoring based on our last full season. six more points in 34 games gets him into the top 40. nine more points in those games gets him into the top 30. while it's unknown if he can keep up that kind of scoring pace, those were impressive numbers he posted this year. actually looking at what he did as opposed to saying "he played less than bozak", it gets a lot harder to argue against kadri>cowen at this point in time.

cowen has played shared #4 minutes with phillips (with phillips actually getting more minutes for game, but only slightly so i decided to say they shared the role). he looked good there. sometimes he looked outstanding. it was encouraging, but he hasn't done anything that compares to the season kadri just had.

saying kadri is better than cowen at this point is totally reasonable. as for who will be better in the future: there are too many variables to predict, then you have to compare two different playing styles and positions. no one knows for sure.

this exactly

Change of tune already?

?

You are repeating the same mistake you made in your previous post (comparison to Kadri). If you want to use the logic of where the player is currently slotted, or ice time, then you should do the same for Kadri. Both were protected with slightly less ice time than you would expect and both were playing on lower lines than where they are projected. And that is exactly how both should have been handled as young players gaining confidence in the league.

It's way different for forwards. Forwards obviously have a bigger offensive role. Points are huge to measure how good they are.

For defensemen, points aren't as important. Your 2nd best offensive d-man could be your #6 guy. So it's more useful to use ice time.

Cowen was 4th in TOI, ES TOI, and lead the D in SH TOI.

Cowen played first line minutes with Karlsson for a short stretch, then struggled a little and was moved down the lineup.

Cowen was 5th in ice time per game.

I happen to like PW's game a lot, have for several years, but he was not amazing. Yes he made some beautiful passes and yes he was productive, but he was played sheltered minutes and was a healthy scratch numerous games rotating with Benoit.

In Cowen's rookie year he was never a healthy scratch, nor was he played sheltered minutes.

PW was amazing and did not deserve to be healthy scratched. Yes he played sheltered minutes, but when he was on the ice, he was amazing.

Cowen is better defensively I guess (never seen Wiercioch with more responsibility), and kills penalties. Well Wiercioch has talents and ability to play in situations that Cowen doesn't have right now.

I respect your opinion on Cowen = Weircoich in terms of dollars, I just respectfully disagree.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by big bucks. In today's NHL $2.5M isn't big money. That said if Cowen is asking for more than $2.7M per season on a 2 year deal, then it is too much IMO.

Cowen is not a proven top 4 D. Not until he can maintain (or better) his regular season play in the playoffs. He's looked awful in the playoffs.

Because of that Cowen is closer to a 3rd pair guy than 2nd pair. Though I call him a #4/5. I don't even know if I would pay $2.5M to a UFA #4/5, let alone a RFA.

Let's take Hainsey as a comparable. Cowen is pretty similar in impact. Hainsey is imo a #4/5 type. He got $2M as a UFA.

Kadri was sixth out of seven Leaf forwards in ES TOI playing all 48 games. He was behind both Bozak and Grabo for ES TOI and Bozak played two fewer games.

The minutes played don't seem to indicate Carlyle thought Kadri was his #1 center.

I am not taking anything away from Kadri's season, he was very productive. However I don't evaluate a player based on points alone, and I don't see Kadri as the better player today.

What I do see is Kadri is a more aggressive offensive player than Bozak, but that doesn't always equate to a good #1 center.

Time will tell.

Kadri was a young unproven player coming into the season, and a lot of coaches start these types of players off with limited ice time. It doesn't mean he's worse than Bozak.

 

[Stylizer1]

I wonder in a few years down the road what he will be like if he's not living up to his contract?

If this drags on into the regular season he will be dealt to a team that sucks and will pay him what he thinks he is worth. Ship him to Calgary or Phoenix.