Proposal: Columbus - Florida

[Sherwood71]

Now we're using pace to justify it...he hit it once...and not close at any other point...this is insane...

Back to the point, a good prospect and a mid to late 1st doesnt get panarin

By your same logic, Panarin isn't an 80 point winger. "he hit it once...". and if 59 points isn't close to 60, then 77 and 74 must be a mile away from 80. By another poster's logic, it's charitable to call him a PPG or 80 point winger. Everyone needs to step back and re-evaluate. Huberdeau is solid for 60 points and has the capability to be 70+, especially since Florida is improving. Panarin is solid for at least 70 points with the capability of being a PPG or more. Also, saying Panarin got 82 points with a rookie is pointless unless you are implying that PLD wasn't good this season just because it fits your narrative. PLD had a pretty good rookie season; one that was better than others veteran centers in the league. Currently Panarin is better than Huberdeau. Is it worth it to trade Huberdeau for Panarin without an extension in place? That's debatable but Florida probably wouldn't take that because they are giving up many years of a great young player for potentially one year of a excellent young player. If I was CBJ, I wouldn't be too upset if Panarin said that he wasn't re-signing, and he was traded for Huberdeau. You downgrade slightly to a guy who has the possibility of putting up over 70 points and signed for many years. The only way it's worth it to keep Panarin is if CBJ wins the cup. If you know that Huberdeau is the best offer and you snub your nose at that and let Panarin walk for nothing, you are crazy.

 

[Fro]

The difference is he did actually hit 80, not almost did..and had 74 and 77, not 69, 59, and less...no where close to 70 points...

I dont get why this is so difficult

 

[CBJx614]

By your same logic, Panarin isn't an 80 point winger. "he hit it once...". and if 59 points isn't close to 60, then 77 and 74 must be a mile away from 80. By another poster's logic, it's charitable to call him a PPG or 80 point winger. Everyone needs to step back and re-evaluate. Huberdeau is solid for 60 points and has the capability to be 70+, especially since Florida is improving. Panarin is solid for at least 70 points with the capability of being a PPG or more. Also, saying Panarin got 82 points with a rookie is pointless unless you are implying that PLD wasn't good this season just because it fits your narrative. PLD had a great rookie season; one that was better than others veteran centers in the league. Currently Panarin is better than Huberdeau. Is it worth it to trade Huberdeau for Panarin without an extension in place? That's debatable but Florida probably wouldn't take that because they are giving up many years of a great young player for potentially one year of a excellent young player. If I was CBJ, I wouldn't be too upset if Panarin said that he wasn't resigning, and he was traded for Huberdeau. You downgrade slightly to a guy who has the possibility of putting up over 70 points and signed for many years. The only way it's worth it to keep Panarin is if CBJ wins the cup. If you know that Huberdeau is the best offer and you snub your nose at that and let Panarin walk for nothing, you are crazy.

Nobody is turning their nose away for a Huberdeau trade, most Columbus fans realize that the only way we get close to full value for Panarin is if the team he is being traded to is allowed to talk to Milstein and Panarin and they can get something worked out.

Otherwise the Jackets will just keep him, they are a playoff caliber team and will continue push to be better. By doing so they hope they can make a push past the first round and in doing so can convince Panarin to stay. It's a risk that might be worth it, as Panarin is a legitimate cornerstone player.


As far as PLD, go look in the SJ/Toronto thread where he's bashed for being nowhere good enough to be considered a 1C... So if he can put up 80+ pts with a rookie who at best can be considered a 2C, imagine what he'd do with an actual top 10 center in Barkov..

 

[cslebn]

The Panthers have multiple excellent prospects. They can send a great prospect without sending their top guy. Personally, If some package of Borgstrom and Bjugstad nets Panarin, I think the Panthers would and should do it. I think the OP was not enough, but get over yourself saying that Tipett isn't a good enough prospect to headline a return because he isn't the best prospect.

If getting a teams "top" prospect matters so much to you, I'm sure a team like the Penguins would love to give you their top prospect.

I was describing the entire package. You've been lurking and posting one our team forum for a month now, you know this really isn't enough. If I recall, you've even offered more.

Frankly Tippett reminds me of Anderson, which is both good and bad. I know reports on him are that he likes to play off the left boards but he is listed at RW (a deep position for us). /shrug.

If you want to be offended, oh well.

 

[Critical13]

Of course it's a good looking top6 because that's terrible for Columbus.

Tippet and a 1st is more reasonable than the Foote + 1st proposal going around for Karlsson.

 

[cslebn]

Tippet and a 1st is more reasonable than the Foote + 1st proposal going around for Karlsson.

One bad proposal doesn't justify another

 

[Beezeral]

I was describing the entire package. You've been lurking and posting one our team forum for a month now, you know this really isn't enough. If I recall, you've even offered more.

Frankly Tippett reminds me of Anderson, which is both good and bad. I know reports on him are that he likes to play off the left boards but he is listed at RW (a deep position for us). /shrug.

If you want to be offended, oh well.

not offended. we seem to be on a similar wavelength

 

[WannabeFinn]

Expiring contract with no intention of re-signing with Columbus. Hurts his value....a tad.

Or you can let him walk for free.

Your move.

Really putting a gun to our head huh. Guess we’ll just keep our best forward for another playoff run. Lol.

Are people forgetting that the value to trade for Panarin has to be equal to or greater than the value of Columbus keeping him for another postseason run? It’s not just bidding against other teams, but bidding against Columbus’ likelihood of just keeping him, whether he walks or not. It doesn’t make sense for Columbus to sell low on him just because he’s walking. We’re a playoff team with him. It’s not like we’re selling off Rick Nash from a team in the gutter even with him on the roster.

 

[Beezeral]

He might not bring back Huberdeau+ but to say he couldn't even bring him back 1 for 1 is absurd.

pay attention. This all started because @Fro spouted off that the Panthers would need to add to Huberdeau to get Panarin then said he was never close to 60 points prior to this season. Some Panther fans are saying they wouldn't do Huberdeau for Panarin because they think they can get him for less, not because Panarin isn't worth it. He absolutely is and everyone knows it. What everyone also "should" know is that returning a player like Huberdeau who is signed for 4 more years at 6 million AAV is a perfect scenario realistic return for Panarin. It is far more likely that a team could get Panarin without having to give up a Huberdeau type player then having to add to a Huberdeau type player especially if Panarin wants more then 9.5 AAV

 

[Fro]

That's fair @Beezeral but you have been in those other threads and saw how they went...my "spouting " was more to put an end to the BS...its a tired drill...offering scraps isn't going to cut it for an elite player

 

[CBJx614]

pay attention. This all started because @Fro spouted off that the Panthers would need to add to Huberdeau to get Panarin then said he was never close to 60 points prior to this season. Some Panther fans are saying they wouldn't do Huberdeau for Panarin because they think they can get him for less, not because Panarin isn't worth it. He absolutely is and everyone knows it. What everyone also "should" know is that returning a player like Huberdeau who is signed for 4 more years at 6 million AAV is a perfect scenario realistic return for Panarin. It is far more likely that a team could get Panarin without having to give up a Huberdeau type player then having to add to a Huberdeau type player.

I would wager a majority of fans would be happy with Huberdeau, if there was any sort of add it would likely be because of Florida and Panarin have worked out a deal. In which case Florida would likely have a small add (mid to late picks or B\C level prospect) to Huberdeau pending an extension.

 

[Sherwood71]

Nobody is turning their nose away for a Huberdeau trade, most Columbus fans realize that the only way we get close to full value for Panarin is if the team he is being traded to is allowed to talk to Milstein and Panarin and they can get something worked out.

Otherwise the Jackets will just keep him, they are a playoff caliber team and will continue push to be better. By doing so they hope they can make a push past the first round and in doing so can convince Panarin to stay. It's a risk that might be worth it, as Panarin is a legitimate cornerstone player.


As far as PLD, go look in the SJ/Toronto thread where he's bashed for being nowhere good enough to be considered a 1C... So if he can put up 80+ pts with a rookie who at best can be considered a 2C, imagine what he'd do with an actual top 10 center in Barkov..

I agree that teams should be allowed to talk to Panarin because that will maximize his value. Only thing is though, apparently Panarin has given a deadline for when he will sign an extension. He said he won't sign during the season so if he isn't signed by the start of the season, it's a huge risk to take. CBJ is a playoff team and if Bobrovsky can hold his own in the playoffs, they are a huge threat. My own opinion is if CBJ can guarantee a quality, albeit a slight downgrade, player to be signed for several years to mesh with a lot of their other good young players, it's a good deal. I would continue to push to extend him but if the season starts, and he isn't signed, I would shop him hard. That's just my opinion. Also, as an aside, I'm not a fan of the teams you mentioned or any in this trade, and I don't really care what SJS/TML fans think. In my opinion, PLD is easily a great 2c (I don't believe there are 31 1Cs). He's only 20, and if he builds on this year, he will easily be a good 1C as soon as next year or the year after, in which case, he will be 21/22 and can improve even further.

The difference is he did actually hit 80, not almost did..and had 74 and 77, not 69, 59, and less...no where close to 70 points...

I dont get why this is so difficult

The point I'm trying to make is that they should be compared under the same lens. Panarin came into the league already developed and a excellent player. Huberdeau has been improving his game almost every year. Its safe to pencil Huberdeau in for 60 points and Panarin in for at least 70, probably around 75 points. Huberdeau has the capability to be around 70 points and maybe more. Panarin has the capability to be around a PPG or more. Panarin to Huberdeau is a downgrade but not a drastic one, especially if you know that Huberdeau will stay and Panarin will walk, but there lies the rub.

 

[Dr Quincy]

So cats fans would have jackets fans believe that a late first (adding panarin will do that) and your not top prospect is fair value?

Let's compare that to the Kane return.
Kane got a 1st, 4th and B prospect. At the deadline.

Since we're doing this for the season, the price goes up.

Now wait, did I see panarin is good for nearly 30 more points than Kane several posts above this? I did.

The price goes up.

Florida having an increased chance to sign him based on [insert potentially made up reason here].

The price goes up.


Pretty simple. Panarin is a premier wing in the game. While he is in his mid 20s already, he is expected to last longer since he doesn't have as many miles on him from playing in the league at an early age, so his durability should be longer. If you'd like to put together a real proposal that benefits both teams and accounts for comparables, feel free.

Huge flaws in this.

1) That the price during the summer is more than the price at the deadline. This just isn't true. I get your logic- More games of the player means more value, BUT at deadline times GMs are under more pressure and are willing to overpay. In the summer everyone thinks those 19 year old kids are going to come in and solidfy a spot for themselves.

So, price doesn't go up.

2) Florida doens't have an increased chance of signing him. They might, but Panarin hasn't said that. Just because armchair GM cslebn says it, doesn't mean it's true, and has zero effect on Panarin's value.

So price doesn't go up.

3) Sounds like Panarin is exactly the kind of player the Bluejackets should lock up long term. Feel free to make a proposal to him and see how it goes. Feel free. Oh wait, he refuses to sign with you?

So price doesn't go up.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Husband: Honey, how much money did you spend?

Wife: only $99.95...

Husband: so $100?

Wife: no, only $99.95

You sound like the wife...

The price of gas was 2.7599 not 2.76.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Go back thru the 15 other threads, cbj fans haven't waivered from the ask...

I love this site, here our quantity for your quality, wait you dont agree, well you aren't the GM...

All I asked was, who set the price? So, don't come at me with this " quantiy for you quality, wait you don't agree, well you aren't the GM" crap. Now, my question is, who set the price.. you. .. other fans .. the GM actually said this...WHO?

 

[hector morrison]

Really putting a gun to our head huh. Guess we’ll just keep our best forward for another playoff run. Lol.

Are people forgetting that the value to trade for Panarin has to be equal to or greater than the value of Columbus keeping him for another postseason run? It’s not just bidding against other teams, but bidding against Columbus’ likelihood of just keeping him, whether he walks or not. It doesn’t make sense for Columbus to sell low on him just because he’s walking. We’re a playoff team with him. It’s not like we’re selling off Rick Nash from a team in the gutter even with him on the roster.

This is part of the equation,to be sure. However,I will use JVR as an example of poor asset management. Him leaving for nothing after a 37 goal season....didn't seem like the smartest option for the Leafs. Sure ,they gained cap room by not having to pay him,but I figured he would of brought in a decent prospect/picks. It wasn't as if he was the difference in a run for the cup! Do you feel Panarin is the difference that gives Columbus the cup? I think making a deal now is best for the team!

 

[cslebn]

Huge flaws in this.

1) That the price during the summer is more than the price at the deadline. This just isn't true. I get your logic- More games of the player means more value, BUT at deadline times GMs are under more pressure and are willing to overpay. In the summer everyone thinks those 19 year old kids are going to come in and solidfy a spot for themselves.

So, price doesn't go up.

2) Florida doens't have an increased chance of signing him. They might, but Panarin hasn't said that. Just because armchair GM cslebn says it, doesn't mean it's true, and has zero effect on Panarin's value.

So price doesn't go up.

3) Sounds like Panarin is exactly the kind of player the Bluejackets should lock up long term. Feel free to make a proposal to him and see how it goes. Feel free. Oh wait, he refuses to sign with you?

So price doesn't go up.

I must have missed where the summer trades of Drouin and Schenn were done at massive discounts.

 

[Beezeral]

I must have missed where the summer trades of Drouin and Schenn were done at massive discounts.

RFA coming off his ELC and a guy signed for 4 more seasons. Compare apples to apples

 

[Dr Quincy]

I must have missed where the summer trades of Drouin and Schenn were done at massive discounts.

Did you miss where they were on another continent saying they didn't want to resign with their teams?

 

[WannabeFinn]

This is part of the equation,to be sure. However,I will use JVR as an example of poor asset management. Him leaving for nothing after a 37 goal season....didn't seem like the smartest option for the Leafs. Sure ,they gained cap room by not having to pay him,but I figured he would of brought in a decent prospect/picks. It wasn't as if he was the difference in a run for the cup! Do you feel Panarin is the difference that gives Columbus the cup? I think making a deal now is best for the team!

I’d rather keep Panarin and have his PPG offensive abilities to get us into the playoffs and contribute for a run while we have guys like Dubois/Werenski on ELCs and guys like Jones, Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, etc. on team friendly contracts. I’m not saying we’re cup favorites, but I’d rather let this team have its chance than sell off our best offensive talent before the season even starts for an underwhelming package. Trading Panarin for futures or for a “decent” roster player+ doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Depth isn’t our issue in the slightest. If we’re going to make any sort of noise with the currently constructed team, it has to be with an elite talent like Panarin.

If it were painfully obvious we weren’t a playoff team *with* Panarin, I might understand just selling him off for the best available offer. But that’s not the case for us.

 

[hector morrison]

I’d rather keep Panarin and have his PPG offensive abilities to get us into the playoffs and contribute for a run while we have guys like Dubois/Werenski on ELCs and guys like Jones, Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, etc. on team friendly contracts. I’m not saying we’re cup favorites, but I’d rather let this team have its chance than sell off our best offensive talent before the season even starts for an underwhelming package. Trading Panarin for futures or for a “decent” roster player+ doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Depth isn’t our issue in the slightest. If we’re going to make any sort of noise with the currently constructed team, it has to be with an elite talent like Panarin.

If it were painfully obvious we weren’t a playoff team *with* Panarin, I might understand just selling him off for the best available offer. But that’s not the case for us.

Many Leaf fans wrestled with those same thoughts...but in the end it just felt like a mistake! The option of paying JVR for more years of service was still on the table,as I'm reasonably sure he would have stayed. It sounds like that isn't an option with Panarin. I think replacing him with a less offensive player and picks/prospects isn't the worst idea.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I’d rather keep Panarin and have his PPG offensive abilities to get us into the playoffs and contribute for a run while we have guys like Dubois/Werenski on ELCs and guys like Jones, Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, etc. on team friendly contracts. I’m not saying we’re cup favorites, but I’d rather let this team have its chance than sell off our best offensive talent before the season even starts for an underwhelming package. Trading Panarin for futures or for a “decent” roster player+ doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Depth isn’t our issue in the slightest. If we’re going to make any sort of noise with the currently constructed team, it has to be with an elite talent like Panarin.

If it were painfully obvious we weren’t a playoff team *with* Panarin, I might understand just selling him off for the best available offer. But that’s not the case for us.

I think that's a fine option and makes sense. But I think it also makes sense that other teams just aren't going to give something elite for the guy unless he makes it known (privately most likely) where he wants to go, and that doesn't seem to be happening.

The thing is, that HE might get you something really good at the deadline, but it's going to be hard for CBS to deal him if they are the 3rd seed in the division or something. So really, there timeline for a trade is the next 4 weeks (unless he changes his mind about negotiating during the season).

Just too much risk for anyone to give an elite player for a guy who seems like Hamlet pondering Yurick's skull.

 

[WannabeFinn]

Many Leaf fans wrestled with those same thoughts...but in the end it just felt like a mistake! The option of paying JVR for more years of service was still on the table,as I'm reasonably sure he would have stayed. It sounds like that isn't an option with Panarin. I think replacing him with a less offensive player and picks/prospects isn't the worst idea.

The Leafs situations with JVR isn’t a good comparison here.

And why would we sell off our elite forward for a lesser offensive player when we have winger depth coming out our ass? Players like Milano and Duclair are penciled in as 4th liners. We still have a ton of promising prospects (although, none with truly elite potential).

It just doesn’t make sense to sell low.

 

[hector morrison]

The Leafs situations with JVR isn’t a good comparison here.

And why would we sell off our elite forward for a lesser offensive player when we have winger depth coming out our ass? Players like Milano and Duclair are penciled in as 4th liners. We still have a ton of promising prospects (although, none with truly elite potential).

It just doesn’t make sense to sell low.

Panarin walking with no return is/will be very much like JVR walking for nothing. I mean if you don't see it that way then so be it! Perhaps you have a better comparison? Also,if .as you say .Columbus has winger depth,then again ,why not trade Panarin for something?
Unless stubborn managing prevails .where they would rather let him walk instead of taking 'not good enough' return for him! Although I doubt the return would be that bad!

 

[Fro]

Panarin walking with no return is/will be very much like JVR walking for nothing. I mean if you don't see it that way then so be it! Perhaps you have a better comparison? Also,if .as you say .Columbus has winger depth,then again ,why not trade Panarin for something?
Unless stubborn managing prevails .where they would rather let him walk instead of taking 'not good enough' return for him! Although I doubt the return would be that bad!

Sure it is, but making the playoffs is more important to Columbus, not getting back a serviceable winger in the deal would probably be the difference

Having 80pts and 30g in the lineup and being able to make some sort of a run is the key

It would suck for him to walk for nothing, but worse to not have any shot for postseason play. This team is trying to learn to win in the postseason...that is most important