Proposal: Columbus - Florida

[CBJx614]

At the end of the day it comes down to how Jarmo handles this. He knew what he was getting into when he made the trade and knew the risks involved. He's made a few shakey trades, but when it comes to big trades he's shown one thing and that's patience. Now with that said he hasn't exactly had a trade with quite the time crunch to get it done, so he's really going to prove his worth as a GM in the NHL with whatever happens with Panarin.

Wait it out and he decides to re-sign, he'll be regarded as a pretty brilliant GM to hold on to the best player in franchise history with the risk of him leaving.

On the other hand, if he holds on to him and he let's the best player in franchise history walk for nothing he could be on a very tight leash, if not fired (I don't think it comes down to that as Jarmo and JD seem to be pretty close)

However let's not act like this team was built around Panarin, he just happened to fall into our laps. This team was built around Bobrovsky and the D. Jones was just outside the top 3 for Norris and Werenski played majority of the season with a torn shoulder, to the point he couldn't raise his stick over his shoulder. The fact that he still put up the numbers he did and played the minutes he did is amazing.

Wennberg was going through back problems throughout the season and you can't really ask for much more from a rookie than what PLD did.

The jackets problem last season wasn't top end scoring, it was the bottom 6. Our depth was attrocious last season. We we're constantly cycling players like Jokinen, Dalpe, Shroeder and Motte through the bottom two lines when Dubinsky and others were injured. Theres a lot of hungry prospects looking to grab a spot at camp and I think Jarmo trusts in his prospects to fill a hole or two this season. Guys like Abramov or Davidsson could show they're ready for the NHL, just as easily as someone like Stenlund who has been playing with grown men overseas(on a championship team), or Robinson who I think after a little time in the AHL could stick around after an injury callup and make a name for himself.


I think it's not unreasonable to believe that Panarin could want to stick around if the burden is lifted from his shoulders a little bit and he gets some space to breathe.


It's like when you meet a girl and and you're vibing but you really like her so you kinda start talking about your emotions WAY to early and suddenly she's not attracted to you anymore. That's kinda what's happening with Panarin I feel like, not that I know from experience or anything...

But one season and multiple Jackets records broken and suddenly he's the greatest Jacket ever and he's gonna help lead the team to a cup... and suddenly Panarin realizes just how much pressure is on him...and Columbus isn't so attractive anymore.

 

[mikeyp24]

How damm difficult it is to answer a simply question?, and you know Preds have Josi+ Subban on defense to answer to Jones scoring from the blueline.

The jackets have Werenski and Jones and to counter those 2 and PLD scored basically Johansen numbers. Bob is slightly better then Rinne... so where is your argument?

 

[BB88]

The jackets have Werenski and Jones and to counter those 2 and PLD scored basically Johansen numbers. Bob is slightly better then Rinne... so where is your argument?

You really can't answer a simply question, Tavares and Islanders? Because you can't twist it into the way you want.

And Preds have a better 1st line and a better top4, Dupois just scored 48 points, that doesn't make him a low end #1C.

 

[mikeyp24]

You really can't answer a simply question, Tavares and Islanders? Because you can't twist it into the way you want,

And Preds have a better 1st line and a better top4, it's no contest.

The preds first line is no contest better then Panarin/PLD/Atkinson? Theres no reason to talk if you are going to be completely dishonest. The Ilse without JT worse. The isles with out Lee is worse. The isles without Barzal are worse. Same way the cbj without Cam, PLD, Jones, etc are worse... thats not a question. Thats like that old joke that you ask someone "Do your parents know you are ______" if you say no its well why havent you told them if you say yes then you are that. You are asking a lose lose question that doesnt make sense to the premise. Yes the CBJ are worse without Panarin even if they get back the best possible return because he is a top 3 LW in the league... the point is to what extent. But you like to avoid honesty it seems.

 

[BB88]

The preds first line is no contest better then Panarin/PLD/Atkinson? Theres no reason to talk if you are going to be completely dishonest. The Ilse without JT worse. The isles with out Lee is worse. The isles without Barzal are worse. Same way the cbj without Cam, PLD, Jones, etc are worse... thats not a question. Thats like that old joke that you ask someone "Do your parents know you are ______" if you say no its well why havent you told them if you say yes then you are that. You are asking a lose lose question that doesnt make sense to the premise. Yes the CBJ are worse without Panarin even if they get back the best possible return because he is a top 3 LW in the league... the point is to what extent. But you like to avoid honesty it seems.

I'd like to try to build a better team than average and realize losing the best forward for free would be incredible stupid.
But if you do East will be sending you thank you cards.

And yes, Preds 1st line has 3 proven 60+ players, and they have a better top4 than you do.

 

[mikeyp24]

I'd like to try to build a better team than average and realize losing the best forward for free would be incredible stupid.
But if you do East will be sending you thank you cards.

And yes, Preds 1st line has 3 proven 60+ players, and they have a better top4 than you do.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Take care guy.

 

[BB88]

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Take care guy.

Can't help but to laugh at your thoughts on losing the best forward for free.

Yes East says thank you very much.

 

[Xoggz22]

Sure. Be petty and mule over 1 point. Doesn't matter.

Fact is, 69 point Huberdeau would never be traded for Panarin.
Even last year (where he had more value as having 2 years on his contract, and didn't seem like a threat to leave UFA), he only fetched a guy who, at his peak, was a 50 point winger. And now he is supposed to fetch Huberdeau? Can you give me any reason other than "I'm a CBJ fan and I say so"

To be fair, referring to a player as a "70" point player implies he's routinely hitting 70+ points, not just one year at 69 points. I wouldn't call Nick Foligno a 70 pt player but he's done it. He has the ability but it's not likely. Huberdeau certainly has a chance but his history doesn't indicate he's a 70 pt player.

 

[Xoggz22]

Yeah losing a star/superstar won't make an impact at all.

Nice dream to have.

Of course losing a star player has an impact but what it appears your fail to realize is that Columbus is a good team even without Panarin. Also one of the youngest. It would absolutely hurt which is why Jarmo is more focused on finding a return that includes NHL talent. There is no reason a top 6 forward can't be part of any Panarin deal. Even an unsigned Panarin. It certainly will take the right partner but that's why you negotiate. There is still leverage among teams that A) thank they can sign him long term (GMs have egos)

 

[BB88]

Of course losing a star player has an impact but what it appears your fail to realize is that Columbus is a good team even without Panarin. Also one of the youngest. It would absolutely hurt which is why Jarmo is more focused on finding a return that includes NHL talent. There is no reason a top 6 forward can't be part of any Panarin deal. Even an unsigned Panarin. It certainly will take the right partner but that's why you negotiate. There is still leverage among teams that A) thank they can sign him long term (GMs have egos)

Your offense without Panarin isn't a threat, youe defense can be great but with that offense(minus Panarin) Columbus goes absolutely nowhere.

 

[72hockey guy]

Can't help but to laugh at your thoughts on losing the best forward for free.

Yes East says thank you very much.

as far as I know we still have Barzal. and we didnt lose Tavares, he lied his way out the door. He would have been traded if he didnt lie to ownership and ask them not to trade him

and repeatedly say I want to be an Islander

count yourself lucky that Panarin is honest enough not to Lie through his teeth about wanting to be in columbus

 

[DoobieDubas]

At the end of the day it comes down to how Jarmo handles this. He knew what he was getting into when he made the trade and knew the risks involved. He's made a few shakey trades, but when it comes to big trades he's shown one thing and that's patience. Now with that said he hasn't exactly had a trade with quite the time crunch to get it done, so he's really going to prove his worth as a GM in the NHL with whatever happens with Panarin.

Wait it out and he decides to re-sign, he'll be regarded as a pretty brilliant GM to hold on to the best player in franchise history with the risk of him leaving.

On the other hand, if he holds on to him and he let's the best player in franchise history walk for nothing he could be on a very tight leash, if not fired (I don't think it comes down to that as Jarmo and JD seem to be pretty close)

However let's not act like this team was built around Panarin, he just happened to fall into our laps. This team was built around Bobrovsky and the D. Jones was just outside the top 3 for Norris and Werenski played majority of the season with a torn shoulder, to the point he couldn't raise his stick over his shoulder. The fact that he still put up the numbers he did and played the minutes he did is amazing.

Wennberg was going through back problems throughout the season and you can't really ask for much more from a rookie than what PLD did.

The jackets problem last season wasn't top end scoring, it was the bottom 6. Our depth was attrocious last season. We we're constantly cycling players like Jokinen, Dalpe, Shroeder and Motte through the bottom two lines when Dubinsky and others were injured. Theres a lot of hungry prospects looking to grab a spot at camp and I think Jarmo trusts in his prospects to fill a hole or two this season. Guys like Abramov or Davidsson could show they're ready for the NHL, just as easily as someone like Stenlund who has been playing with grown men overseas(on a championship team), or Robinson who I think after a little time in the AHL could stick around after an injury callup and make a name for himself.


I think it's not unreasonable to believe that Panarin could want to stick around if the burden is lifted from his shoulders a little bit and he gets some space to breathe.


It's like when you meet a girl and and you're vibing but you really like her so you kinda start talking about your emotions WAY to early and suddenly she's not attracted to you anymore. That's kinda what's happening with Panarin I feel like, not that I know from experience or anything...

But one season and multiple Jackets records broken and suddenly he's the greatest Jacket ever and he's gonna help lead the team to a cup... and suddenly Panarin realizes just how much pressure is on him...and Columbus isn't so attractive anymore.

**panarin aside...
If CLB needs bottom 6 depth the leafs have to many options for that via a trade.. Most likely mid season after they analyze a few more. We also won the AHL championship easily with numerous players. If we didn't have a stacked forward lineup of
Marner-Tavares-Marleau
Nylander-Matthews-Kapanen
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown
hyman-par or gauthier- Ennis/Levio
Levio/Ennis

A lot of our AHL champions would slot nicely on teams bottom 6's(besides centres) or our 13th forward levio.

 

[CBJFan827]

**panarin aside...
If CLB needs bottom 6 depth the leafs have to many options for that via a trade.. Most likely mid season after they analyze a few more. We also won the AHL championship easily with numerous players. If we didn't have a stacked forward lineup of
Marner-Tavares-Marleau
Nylander-Matthews-Kapanen
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown
hyman-par or gauthier- Ennis/Levio
Levio/Ennis

A lot of our AHL champions would slot nicely on teams bottom 6's(besides centres) or our 13th forward levio.

We don't need bottom six depth. We needed it at times last year due to injuries to Dubinsky/Atkinson/Anderson/Sedlak/Wennberg, but this year we'll have something like Milano-Dubinsky-Duclair as our 4th line with Sedlak/Davidsson/Robinson around and competing for a spot or two. Not to mention AHL depth like Hannikainen and seeing what Abramov will do.

Panarin-Dubois-Atkinson
Jenner-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand
Foligno-Nash-Anderson
Milano-Dubinsky-Duclair
Sedlak

NHL depth isn't what we need. First line production is what we need, which is why so many of us are advocating for keeping Panarin. With Panarin, let's say Abramov makes the roster. Who better to learn from in the locker room as a rookie than one of the best damn LWs in the league who is also your fellow countryman. That's the sort of intangible benefit keeping Panarin may bring. I think, while different, Milano should be trying to learn as much from Panarin's work ethic and game as he can so he can be a competent NHLer.

 

[Xoggz22]

Your offense without Panarin isn't a threat, youe defense can be great but with that offense(minus Panarin) Columbus goes absolutely nowhere.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The offense takes a hit but it doesn't make Columbus a lottery team.

 

[major major]

That's more like a last ditch deadline deal, not a real one for Panarin. Think bigger

I don't even think it qualifies as a deadline rental deal. I think Panarin at the deadline would fetch more than Tippett + 1st. And I'm not sure Columbus would do it - they're a cup threat with Panarin.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I don't even think it qualifies as a deadline rental deal. I think Panarin at the deadline would fetch more than Tippett + 1st. And I'm not sure Columbus would do it - they're a cup threat with Panarin.

Based on the CBJ play last season. I do not believe CBJ is a cup threat. They literally made no changes for the better for this coming season and let the rental players walk that even got them into the playoffs to begin with. Maybe I'm just being negative after close to 20 years but if this team gets in it is because they barely squeak in again. I have little confidence that Wennberg is magically going to have a better season or the a 32 year old Dubinsky who plays a very hard physical style is going to have a better season.

 

[major major]

Based on the CBJ play last season. I do not believe CBJ is a cup threat. They literally made no changes for the better for this coming season and let the rental players walk that even got them into the playoffs to begin with. Maybe I'm just being negative after close to 20 years but if this team gets in it is because they barely squeak in again. I have little confidence that Wennberg is magically going to have a better season or the a 32 year old Dubinsky who plays a very hard physical style is going to have a better season.

Have a look at an age-performance chart, and consider that the Jackets have the league's deepest core of 19-24 year old players (according to Dom Lusz.). Then re-consider why you think one mediocre 32 year old matters at all. Dubinsky could have a great bounceback or get hit by a truck and it doesn't matter that much to the Jackets' success. Same with retaining last year's rentals (who were brought in for cheap draft picks) or UFA signings. UFA signings don't matter much compared to the maturation of great young players. But I will argue that Riley Nash fills team needs very well.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Have a look at an age-performance chart, and consider that the Jackets have the league's deepest core of 19-24 year old players (according to Dom Lusz.). Then re-consider why you think one mediocre 32 year old matters at all. Dubinsky could have a great bounceback or get hit by a truck and it doesn't matter that much to the Jackets' success. Same with retaining last year's rentals (who were brought in for cheap draft picks) or UFA signings. UFA signings don't matter much compared to the maturation of great young players. But I will argue that Riley Nash fills team needs very well.

Yes they are young but young doesn’t also equate to production. I also recall seeing an article from Dom analyzing numbers prediction slightly less wins for the CBJ this coming season and a C+ grade on the offseason. Considering that they had to go on an amazing run to get in the playoffs st the end of the season I don’t feel they are a cup contender.

By the numbers: Offseason grades for all 31 NHL teams By the numbers: Offseason grades for all 31 NHL teams

 

[major major]

Yes they are young but young doesn’t also equate to production. I also recall seeing an article from Dom analyzing numbers prediction slightly less wins for the CBJ this coming season and a C+ grade on the offseason. Considering that they had to go on an amazing run to get in the playoffs st the end of the season I don’t feel they are a cup contender.

By the numbers: Offseason grades for all 31 NHL teams By the numbers: Offseason grades for all 31 NHL teams

"young doesn’t also equate to production."

Moving from a 21 year old to a 22 year old changes production just as predictably as moving from one player to another does. Of course there are no guarantees, but it's more of a sure thing than the UFA market is.

Dom was assessing off-season moves. He found a neglible difference in terms of value added, with Nash and Duclair replacing Vanek and company. He wasn't making a prediction with age taken into account. Whenever he does take age into account, he's been consistently bullish on the Jackets.

There's plenty of teams that wish they could go on a run like the Jackets can. That's two years in a row where they've shown the very high gear this team has. That level of play shows you what they might be able to do in the playoffs.

 

[Beezeral]

I agree with much of what you said and if the Panthers were to offer Huberdeau + they should take it

It's never going to be Huberdeau+. CBJ's GM would be doing backflips if he could get Huberdeau for Panarin straight up.

 

[Viqsi]

I dont get why this is difficult

Because GIVE ME ALL YOUR SHINIES.

* * *​

question for CBJ fans. Is it worth it to you to lose Panarin for nothing if the Blue Jackets season results in a 2nd round exit?

Yes. Easily. Because that represents productive progress on the part of the team.

* * *​

Your offense without Panarin isn't a threat

Except for the part where it, y'know, was. Before we ever had Panarin.

Yes, the team's worse without him - he basically single-handedly pulled us out of a swoon this past year. No, we're not doomed without him - we've played pretty well without him before; it's why this year represented a playoffs streak rather than another one-off. Obviously we would much prefer to keep him. But folks are overreacting to our situation because they (think they) see the Isles being doomed to perpetual irrelevance, and think that the same is also possible for the Jackets and that therefore we must be desperate. We're not. We're certainly not happy, but we sure as heck aren't desperate. The Isles were building around Tavares for eight years; we were building around our blueline, and Panarin just happened to show up for a year. We don't want to do without him, but we can and will if we have to.

 

[Beezeral]

Yes. Easily. Because that represents productive progress on the part of the team.

this is what confuses me. How can it be considered productive progress if the best player walks out the door a few weeks later?

 

[Cowumbus]

this is what confuses me. How can it be considered productive progress if the best player walks out the door a few weeks later?

Because we haven’t won anything, ever.

 

[Viqsi]

this is what confuses me. How can it be considered productive progress if the best player walks out the door a few weeks later?

1) He's not the best player. (Right now he's the best forward, but that's not the same thing).
2) The young core gets an idea of what's needed to make it further in the playoffs.
3) Guys like PLD and Bjorkstrand get an additional year to learn from a master of the game.

Granted, it'd be infinitely nicer if we could have those things plus Panarin staying here for the foreseeable future. But those things also have more value than folks are giving them credit for.

 

[CBJFan827]

this is what confuses me. How can it be considered productive progress if the best player walks out the door a few weeks later?

1. Youngest team in league gets monkey off its back and is no longer the only NHL franchise to never win a playoff series. That's not looming over their heads. They believe they can do it now, because they've done it once already. You learn the most about yourself when faced with your toughest challenges while balanced with meaningful support, like a star player (I will cite the human development research to back that point up).

2. Opportunity for young forwards (namely and ideally Abramov, Dubois, Bjorkstrand, & Milano) to learn from, whether by proximity observation or direct interaction/pointers, one of the league/world's best all around wingers. I am Milano's biggest hater, but even I would be ecstatic if he played the game with a single ounce of Panarin's effort on both ends of the ice.

None of this happens in a vacuum. Look at the bevy of star guys in the league who attribute living with/learning from older stars/veterans. I'm proposing something a little different than all that, but I think the logic is still sound. It will be a lot easier from Abramov to learn how to be a good-to-great NHLer from an actual star forward like Panarin versus Nick Foligno and Cam Atkinson. I'm not discounting the value our young core will gain from potentially playing more meaningful spring hockey. It's a lot more than we'd get from packages of all picks/meh prospects or soon-to-be-UFA guys that most of the HF fan deals have been thus far.

I would pose an analogy with the modern U.S. Democratic Party, President Obama, and the grassroots changes in the nation that hopefully within a generation will clean up certain messes, but I'll save that for hopefully never on this board.

This isn't the same as the Isles situation, which was a mess all around at an ownership/management level. When/if Panarin leaves, Columbus isn't going to immediately drop to being a lottery team again.

EDIT: Leave it to Viqsi to say the same thing I'm saying, but much more succinctly