Proposal: Columbus - Florida

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
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Sitting at a desk.

Wheeler: The Top 50 drafted NHL prospects ranking, 2018...

They have him at #23, but I've seen him higher. Possession style C, great hands and vision. Plays a lot like Krecji, I would say he has 70+ point potential though. Could be your #1 or #2C for many years.

It’s crazy that Chytil, who doesn’t turn 19 until September, has already played a full season in the AHL and another in the top pro league in the Czech Republic. He was days away from being eligible for the 2018 draft but never looked out of place last season, picking up 31 points in 46 games as one of the younger players to ever play in the AHL — and did so on a Hartford team that didn’t offer much up front in terms of help. Chytil is a big, athletic centre who loves to have the puck on his stick and doesn’t have to rely on a chip-and-chase, cycle game to generate offence. While he projects more as a second-line centre than a first-line talent, Chytil still has time on his side. For a player who’s as heavy as he is (he’s already over 200 pounds), Chytil has a fluid, light stride which allows him to change direction and pace with more agility than you’d expect.
 
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Sherwood71

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Jul 18, 2016
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Let me ask you this. If your team could get Panarin for free (not having to give up assets) for next season, but then he would become a free agent after the season, would you do it? Because that is the way I look at if for Columbus, unless a team wants to make a legit, quality offer. I'd much rather have one of the best players in the NHL for a year than a couple of average assets.

My only critique on this view is that you didn't get Panarin for free. You traded some good assets for him. If Panarin walks, you don't have those assets or Panarin. In your example, it sounds like a team like the Panthers somehow acquires Panarin for nothing. In this case, they could hang on to him and it wouldn't matter because if they lose him, they go back to where they were. If CBJ loses Panarin, they don't go back to where they were before they got Panarin. I get your point of trying to make a run for the playoffs beyond the first round and not selling low on him, but if the Panthers offered Huberdeau+, I think that's a pretty good offer.
 
Nov 13, 2006
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My only critique on this view is that you didn't get Panarin for free. You traded some good assets for him. If Panarin walks, you don't have those assets or Panarin. In your example, it sounds like a team like the Panthers somehow acquires Panarin for nothing. In this case, they cotuld hang on to him and it wouldn't matter because if they lose him, they go back to where they were. If CBJ loses Panarin, they don't go back to where they were before they got Panarin. I get your point of trying to make a run for the playoffs beyond the first round and not selling low on him, but if the Panthers offered Huberdeau+, I think that's a pretty good offer.

I agree with much of what you said and if the Panthers were to offer Huberdeau + they should take it, unless of course Columbus can sell Panarin on re-signing in Columbus. Unless he decides to re-sign, the Blue Jackets can think of Panarin as a rental. His value as a rental is certainly more than Evander Kane's value last season, What would Columbus have to pay for an elite rental wing? Unless offered more than Kane returned, they should keep him.

Where I think the Panarin threads go off track is when some posters feel Columbus should take whatever is offered so they don't lose him for nothing. Columbus is better off keeping him than taking less than his rental value to Columbus.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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Not at all.

They're going all in and ownership is committed to Kekalainen even if Panarin leaves.

If anything, ownership's stance is that the team taking a major step backwards this season would be a firing offense. They're really counting on making the playoffs again.

I do not think Kekalainen has the ok to trade Panarin for futures.

Trying to be average should never be the goal.
 

Meeqs

Registered User
Aug 23, 2012
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In response to OP as a neutral party I'd say an easy no from FLA:

1) Fla's top 6 is actually pretty solid. After Hoffman I wouldn't see Panarin as a huge need.
2) If we know Panarin is interested in only a few destinations in UFA and that FLA is one of them then there is little incentive to trade assets for him instead of just taking a chance on him in UFA

I'm really not sure what actual value Panarin has, as he is an elite elite player but would almost certainly hit UFA as he'd be crazy not to. He could return a ton or the lack of contract length could limit the potential return. Either way I don't see FLA being the team who would pay the most for him

Edit: Finally the "assumed extension" is the dumbest thing going around on HFB atm. Its not realistic in the slightest and it only derails the legitimacy of the conversation.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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So sell off your best player who makes you a upper caliber team and be... below average?

Columbus is an average team, lose your ppg winger and what are you?
Not anything special and will take some time to build a threat.

It's incredible stupid to consider letting a star/superstar player walk for free when the team isn't one of the top contenders.

Well Metro teams would be signing thank you's.
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
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Columbus is an average team, lose your ppg winger and what are you?
Not anything special and will take some time to build a threat.

It's incredible stupid to consider letting a star/superstar player walk for free when the team isn't one of the top contenders.

Well Metro teams would be signing thank you's.
You do realize before Panarin we had a better record and did better all around right? And if our team didnt have horrible injury luck we would have been a 100pt team again. You might not understand that the cbj have an elite goalie and D but also have above average depth. Teams like pitt arent getting any better and we are moving up in the metro... 1 player wont change the team to far. McDavid couldnt save the oilers Panarin isnt going to sink the CBJ.

Honestly losing Bob hurts 100x more.
 

Jackets16

Registered User
Jan 7, 2005
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My only critique on this view is that you didn't get Panarin for free. You traded some good assets for him. If Panarin walks, you don't have those assets or Panarin. In your example, it sounds like a team like the Panthers somehow acquires Panarin for nothing. In this case, they could hang on to him and it wouldn't matter because if they lose him, they go back to where they were. If CBJ loses Panarin, they don't go back to where they were before they got Panarin. I get your point of trying to make a run for the playoffs beyond the first round and not selling low on him, but if the Panthers offered Huberdeau+, I think that's a pretty good offer.

If you asked me if we could trade those assets for a player who would get us to the playoffs 2 straight years, I would do it every time.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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You do realize before Panarin we had a better record and did better all around right? And if our team didnt have horrible injury luck we would have been a 100pt team again. You might not understand that the cbj have an elite goalie and D but also have above average depth. Teams like pitt arent getting any better and we are moving up in the metro... 1 player wont change the team to far. McDavid couldnt save the oilers Panarin isnt going to sink the CBJ.

Honestly losing Bob hurts 100x more.

Yeah losing a star/superstar won't make an impact at all.

Nice dream to have.
 

mikeyp24

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Jun 28, 2014
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Yeah losing a star/superstar won't make an impact at all.

Nice dream to have.
Look at the team stats with and without Panarin from the past 2 years. We had a better year without him with the only major different being him ans Saad... it will hurt but it wont take us from back to back 3rd in the metro to top 10 pick...
 

Sherwood71

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Jul 18, 2016
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I agree with much of what you said and if the Panthers were to offer Huberdeau + they should take it, unless of course Columbus can sell Panarin on re-signing in Columbus. Unless he decides to re-sign, the Blue Jackets can think of Panarin as a rental. His value as a rental is certainly more than Evander Kane's value last season, What would Columbus have to pay for an elite rental wing? Unless offered more than Kane returned, they should keep him.

Where I think the Panarin threads go off track is when some posters feel Columbus should take whatever is offered so they don't lose him for nothing. Columbus is better off keeping him than taking less than his rental value to Columbus.

That's the huge problem. Will he re-sign? He gave a deadline for signing during the season. Once the season starts, CBJ has two options: Hail Mary or Punt the Ball. I don't think they should aggressively shop Panarin before the season starts. Once the season starts they really need to evaluate. If CBJ makes it to Game 7 of the Conference Finals, the Hail Mary may work. If they get bounced in the first round, it may be a lost cause. That's why I think they should wait to decide whether he stays or goes until the season is underway. I agree that they shouldn't just trade him because they may get nothing, and that's where some people bank on a spare parts deal. Obviously if the Panthers offer Jared McCann, that's an obvious no. On the other hand, Huberdeau obviously keep CBJ on the line listening and talking for a little. I think nothing should be done until at least about a month into the season in my opinion.

If you asked me if we could trade those assets for a player who would get us to the playoffs 2 straight years, I would do it every time.
You are changing your point slightly. All I wanted to point out was your example wasn't the best, although your point is obviously a huge factor. With respect to this point, I don't think that CBJ would have missed the playoffs if they didn't trade for Panarin and kept Saad and Forsberg. CBJ is more than just Panarin. Obviously having an elite player like him makes the team better, but it's not like CBJ wasn't a playoff team before they got him.
 

CBJFan827

I hate you Brad Marchand
Jul 19, 2006
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My only critique on this view is that you didn't get Panarin for free. You traded some good assets for him. If Panarin walks, you don't have those assets or Panarin. In your example, it sounds like a team like the Panthers somehow acquires Panarin for nothing. In this case, they could hang on to him and it wouldn't matter because if they lose him, they go back to where they were. If CBJ loses Panarin, they don't go back to where they were before they got Panarin. I get your point of trying to make a run for the playoffs beyond the first round and not selling low on him, but if the Panthers offered Huberdeau+, I think that's a pretty good offer.
Sunk cost fallacy.
 

Pia8988

Registered User
May 26, 2014
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Look at the team stats with and without Panarin from the past 2 years. We had a better year without him with the only major different being him ans Saad... it will hurt but it wont take us from back to back 3rd in the metro to top 10 pick...

Other players got better and others got worse. I would wager on Columbus being a worse team sans Panarin. The other metro teams are coming up as well. Philly and NJ are getting better. Carolina could pass Columbus as well.
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
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Trying to be average should never be the goal.
They aren't trying to be average, they sincerely think they can be an 100 point team in the metro on par with Pittsburgh and Washington based on the results of 2016-2017 and this season (being an underachievement in their eyes).

With Jones, Werenski, and others locked down longterm the team will not even attempt a rebuild.

As long as they are in a playoff position, they will not trade Panarin for futures.
 
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Sherwood71

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Jul 18, 2016
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Sunk cost fallacy.

First, I just want to confirm, you do realize I am not saying that CBJ should give Panarin up for just anything so they recover something, right? I was referring to the point that CBJ would not be the same team as before they got Panarin, so its not truly a free Panarin (my interpretation of his example, perhaps I was splitting hairs). I also didn't say he should be traded for scraps to recover something. I say at the end (and in other posts) that CBJ shouldn't sell low on him and need to weigh what the options are during the season. No where do I say he should be traded to try to recover those assets that he was traded for; that has never once been in any of my posts.

Second, I'm not sure that really applies since, as I mentioned when I said I understand he should not be sold low, I am not saying he should be traded because CBJ spent assets on him. Perhaps it's nebulous in that post but if you look at my others regarding this, I've only mentioned the current moment in the present with no reference to the past. It comes down to these options: trade Panarin for assets in case he walks at the end of the year, or keep him and hope for a deep playoff run which may or may not convince him to stay. This isn't exactly the same as the classic Sunk Cost Fallacy example of movie tickets. Panarin is the movie ticket, and him walking is the "you can't go to the movie" part. If you bought the ticket for $100 and you decide not to go but someone offers you $10 for the tickets, most people would say no because they spent $100 and the net is -90 where as if you forget that, you could have $10 if you forget about the sunk cost. The only difference with the Panarin example is that you have value in keeping him. His value is also linked to how the season goes and how far CBJ goes into the playoffs. Essentially this would be the movie ticket example except if you stay home and keep the ticket, you would receive somewhere between 0 and 200 dollars (having a horrible season where they miss the playoffs or they win the cup) versus you know you can sell the ticket for $75 or something.

Again, I never said he should be traded to recover the assets spent. I say my only critique is on his example with regards to that. Maybe I should have separated those two sections to make it more clear but I am referring to right now what the options are regardless of what he cost. Trade him and get assets instead of nothing, or take a shot for a deep run. Both are variable options that are hard to quantify definitively; hence why I mention I don't think they should sell low on him. The value comes down to perspective of each person.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
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Let me ask you this. If your team could get Panarin for free (not having to give up assets) for next season, but then he would become a free agent after the season, would you do it? Because that is the way I look at if for Columbus, unless a team wants to make a legit, quality offer. I'd much rather have one of the best players in the NHL for a year than a couple of average assets.
Nicely stated and I really do understand the perspective.As this is how Leaf management concluded that keeping JVR and also Bozak was a better option in their situation. Terming it as 'own rental' ! I disagreed with that decision as well!
The way I see it the equation is this: Panarin for One year vs. whatever he brings back for Many years ! You figure he is one of the best players in the league,then the return won't be so terrible! The team needs to move on ,Panarin is !
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
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Look at the team stats with and without Panarin from the past 2 years. We had a better year without him with the only major different being him ans Saad... it will hurt but it wont take us from back to back 3rd in the metro to top 10 pick...

You need to realize the league develops as well.
You seriously want to tell us Islanders are now better without Tavares than they would be with him?

Your offense offers nothing scary if you take away Panarin.

They aren't trying to be average, they sincerely think they can be an 100 point team in the metro on par with Pittsburgh and Washington based on the results of 2016-2017 and this season (being an underachievement in their eyes).

With Jones, Werenski, and others locked down longterm the team will not even attempt a rebuild.

As long as they are in a playoff position, they will not trade Panarin for futures.

They are an average team, they aren't at the elite contender level.
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
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You need to realize the league develops as well.
You seriously want to tell us Islanders are now better without Tavares than they would be with him?

Your offense offers nothing scary if you take away Panarin.



They are an average team, they aren't at the elite contender level.
but the Preds are scary? The CBJ are a defensive minded team. And the isles habe been dependent on JT for years to be competitive. Do they have a top 5ish D and the best goalie in hockey? No. As a matter of fact their goalie position was a reason they struggled last year. Bob may not have the best playoff track record but his regular season stats WHEN HEALTHY are the best since the lockout "on an average team". Again losing Bob hurts 100x more then 1 forward will.
 

BB88

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Jan 19, 2015
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but the Preds are scary? The CBJ are a defensive minded team. And the isles habe been dependent on JT for years to be competitive. Do they have a top 5ish D and the best goalie in hockey? No. As a matter of fact their goalie position was a reason they struggled last year. Bob may not have the best playoff track record but his regular season stats WHEN HEALTHY are the best since the lockout "on an average team". Again losing Bob hurts 100x more then 1 forward will.

The question was simply, are the Islander better without Tavares or with him?

And you don't have Preds 1st line without Panarin nor their 2nd pairing.
 

mikeyp24

Registered User
Jun 28, 2014
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The question was simply, are the Islander better without Tavares or with him?

And you don't have Preds 1st line without Panarin nor their 2nd pairing.
Jones scored more then RyJo last year. PLD wasnt far behind. And their forward defense is not on our level. Any team that loses a great player is obviously lesser but the point is to what extent? 5 games? 10 games? How important is he.
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
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Jones scored more then RyJo last year. PLD wasnt far behind. And their forward defense is not on our level. Any team that loses a great player is obviously lesser but the point is to what extent? 5 games? 10 games? How important is he.

How damm difficult it is to answer a simply question?, and you know Preds have Josi+ Subban on defense to answer to Jones scoring from the blueline.
 

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