2012 Re-Draft on NHL.com is laughable

[Sol]

Don't think you'd draft Hertl ahead of Pearson today.

 

[Greeneye]

totally brutal list, doesn't warrant discussion it's so bad.

 

[Sol]

Galchenyuk still at #3 hasn't been mentioned yet but that's pretty bad.

It's awfully high.
Disgusting Teravainen is so high on that list.

 

[blueberrie]

No it isnt. He's properly ranked.

Reilly should be further down the list.

Properly ranked at 3rd overall? I'd take the top 6-8 D of this draft alone over Galchenyuk and I'm sure I'm not alone.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Too early, for a re-draft, most of the draft class is getting their feet wet. We can judge a draft class about 10 years after. Compare the 2007 draft class in 2012 vs 2017, guys like Backlund, Turris, Bonino, Byron, and Killorn were not even established NHLers yet, now they are some of the most valuable pieces from that draft.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So his breakout season was 15/16 where he had less average time on ice, less responsibility and lower production? Interesting take. Usually a players breakout season is the one where they produce higher, take on a bigger role and tend to get noticed. But hey I guess because I'm not a Canes fan that goes out the window.... Only applies to players on the other 30 teams. Not the Canes.

I'm guessing you're looking at season-end statistics. Not game logs.

Had you looked at the latter, you'd have seen that he actually average MORE minutes in the second half of 15/16 than he did in 16/17.

But that's cool, tell a Hurricanes fan more things you know about Slavin from his hockeydb page.

It's interesting you say "He doesn't even play on the PP" when he averages .55 seconds a game on it. 3rd highest average among Carolina defencemen. 75:57 total minutes. Awful lot for someone who doesn't play on the PP. But I don't know much about him...

I'm guessing you also don't know that the Hurricanes run a 4th forward on their PP unit.

But again, please tell a Hurricanes fan more about the Hurricanes. I'm sure you're not in the process of embarrassing yourself.

 

[BlueDream]

Teuvo Teravainen a top 5 pick.

You know he wouldn't be there if he wasn't drafted by Chicago too. Just sayin...

 

[Daximus]

I'm guessing you're looking at season-end statistics. Not game logs.

Had you looked at the latter, you'd have seen that he actually average MORE minutes in the second half of 15/16 than he did in 16/17.

But that's cool, tell a Hurricanes fan more things you know about Slavin from his hockeydb page.



I'm guessing you also don't know that the Hurricanes run a 4th forward on their PP unit.

But again, please tell a Hurricanes fan more about the Hurricanes. I'm sure you're not in the process of embarrassing yourself.

So he has a lesser role in 16/17 then he did at the end of 15/16? So his breakout was half a season? You're spinning your tires here man.
The Hurricanes can run two goalies on their PP unit if they'd like doesn't change the fact that you said Slavin doesn't play on the PP when he very clearly does, if he didn't his ice time would be at or around 0:00/GM. and it is most certainly not. Only one embarrassing themselves here is you.
It's sad when I have to correct a Hurricanes fan on their players usage.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So he has a lesser role in 16/17 then he did at the end of 15/16? So his breakout was half a season? You're spinning your tires here man.

The difference between the second half of 15/16 and 16/17 is like 2 seconds. Not a "lesser role", as you would know if you had a clue about this player beyond his stat sheet.

Of course, that means he broke out early-midway through 15/16. But I'm going to just sit back and watch with amusement as you do mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that you had NO idea what you were talking about in your prior posts.

The Hurricanes can run two goalies on their PP unit if they'd like doesn't change the fact that you said Slavin doesn't play on the PP when he very clearly does, if he didn't his ice time would be at or around 0:00/GM. and it is most certainly not. Only one embarrassing themselves here is you.
It's sad when I have to correct a Hurricanes fan on their players usage.

I shouldn't have to explain what happens at the end of an unsuccessful power play when a team has a 4th forward on the ice and its best defenseman is fully rested...

But here goes: they roll out their best defenseman before the end of the PP so they don't get caught with a 4th forward at even strength. Over the course of 3 or 4 shifts like this per game, that player is going to rack up about a minute of time that was technically logged as PP, even if he never actually skated a real PP shift.

I don't doubt that you're going to try and save face by continuing to argue even though you're hopelessly wrong, as was obvious the second you ranked a Vlasic-style defensive defenseman based on his offense.

 

[Daximus]

I shouldn't have to explain what happens at the end of an unsuccessful power play when a team has a 4th forward on the ice and its best defenseman is fully rested...

But here goes: they roll out their best defenseman before the end of the PP so they don't get caught with a 4th forward at even strength. Over the course of 3 or 4 shifts like this per game, that player is going to rack up about a minute of time that was technically logged as PP, even if he never actually skated a real PP shift.

I don't doubt that you're going to try and save face by continuing to argue even though you're hopelessly wrong, as was obvious the second you ranked a Vlasic-style defensive defenseman based on his offense.

You still said he plays no powerplay time. That is demonstratively false. He plays 0:55 seconds per game. If he played no PP time he would play 0:00, which again is not the case. Not sure what part of that you seem to not be grasping. You made statement, it was proven wrong.

 

[Nithoniniel]

You still said he plays no powerplay time. That is demonstratively false. He plays 0:55 seconds per game. If he played no PP time he would play 0:00, which again is not the case. Not sure what part of that you seem to not be grasping. You made statement, it was proven wrong.

As a neutral reader, you have certainly shown that he was technically wrong when he said that he didn't play on the PP. However, that is quite the nitpick when the amount of ice time isn't all that much to begin with, even before taking into account the factors that tarheel mentioned.

The overarching point was that judging Slavin on points isn't very accurate as he's not an OFD making his living on the PP, and it's one I agree with. I also agree with tarheel that his breakthrough would be during the 15/16 season. A breakthrough would be when a player takes a huge step up (midpoint 15/16), not when he's stayed at that level for a long time (16/17 season).

As for getting noticed, I think it just shows how overlooked smaller markets can be when it takes a year before a breakthrough is actually noticed.

Finally, I think both of you could have got your points across better if you weren't sniping at each other meanwhile. Don't think that's quite like either of you, from what I've read before.

 

[ybnvs]

Matt Murray #1.

 

[EveryDay]

Galchenyuk still at #3 hasn't been mentioned yet but that's pretty bad.

Teravainen and Gostisbehere are too high.

And I don't see how Galchenyuk goes 3rd overall. I can see him slipping out of the top 10. Still hasn't figured out if he's a center or a winger, one of the league's softest players for a man his size, inconsistent effort, weak defensively.

Galchenyuk and Forsberg are by far the best forward on that draft and they are both top5-6 in that draft for sure...

In no order:

Forsberg
Galchenyuk
Slavin
Trouba
Lindhom
Parayko

and they you have a few equal player in:

Hertl
Pearson
Maata
Rielly
Dumba
Ghost
Skjei

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

Galchenyuk is still producing at a good pace so far and only Forsberg have been better.

 

[CapnZin]

Yeah that list is horrible.

Murray, Maata, Teravainen, and Pearson are high. Murray would be in the top 10 if not top 5.
Maata should be like 20th or somewhere close to that.

 

[EveryDay]

Properly ranked at 3rd overall? I'd take the top 6-8 D of this draft alone over Galchenyuk and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Dude Rielly in nothing more then a good number four defenceman who must be the worst defensive defenceman out of that 1st round....

-67 so far in his career!!!!

You can say maybe 3-4 defenceman would be taken ahead of Galchenyuk but that's it.

Trouba/Slavin/Parayko/Lindholm could be draft ahead of him but I believe alot of people will change their mind next season. For me Forsberg should be #1.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah that list is horrible.

Murray, Maata, Teravainen, and Pearson are high. Murray would be in the top 10 if not top 5.
Maata should be like 20th or somewhere close to that.

I don't understand why Murray is high when he has 2 cups as a starter before his rookie season even ended :shrug:

I really don't see a justification for him not being in the top-5 at least. Maybe have Lindholm, Parayko and/or Forsberg over him, but there aren't 5 players from that draft that I'd take before Murray.

Matt Murray #1.

Yes, that guy with 2 Stanley Cups, a .925 regular season save% and a .928 playoff save% is so laughable to have at #1. Yep, for sure

Matt Murray is already a top-5 goalie in hockey. It's debatable to have Forsberg, Lindholm and Parayko over him, but that's really it. He's absolutely unarguably in the top-5.

 

[JPeeper]

lol'd at Gillies at 22. Yeah I think he is a good prospect, but just lol.

And Teravainen at 6. LOL

Terrible list, who wrote this?

 

[Matty Sundin]

That draft was terrible so not suprising to see picks all over. Btw Slavin went from being underratedo just being overrated on these boards

 

[blueberrie]

Galchenyuk and Forsberg are by far the best forward on that draft and they are both top5-6 in that draft for sure...

In no order:

Forsberg
Galchenyuk
Slavin
Trouba
Lindhom
Parayko

and they you have a few equal player in:

Hertl
Pearson
Maata
Rielly
Dumba
Ghost
Skjei

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2012e.html

Galchenyuk is still producing at a good pace so far and only Forsberg have been better.

If you think Forsberg = Galchenyuk than I could see why you think he's deserving of 3rd overall. Really there is no reason to equate the two though. He doesn't belong in your own top tier.

You're forgetting Murray as well, but personally I'd have him towards the bottom of your "equal" players list.

Dunno why you keep bringing up Rielly to me, I'm not trying to argue he's the 3rd best player from his draft.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You still said he plays no powerplay time. That is demonstratively false. He plays 0:55 seconds per game. If he played no PP time he would play 0:00, which again is not the case. Not sure what part of that you seem to not be grasping. You made statement, it was proven wrong.

What are you playing at in this thread? Was the strategy to wait until days later in the wee hours of the morning, just to slip a nitpicky last word under the radar?

I didn't say Slavin literally never touches the ice during a PP, so let's do away with that nonsense about 0:00. I said he "doesn't play on the PP". As demonstrated, he is not on either of the Hurricanes' PP units. If he's on the ice during a PP, it's either as a substitute in a pinch, or because he's starting the post -PP shift.

This is EASILY OBSERVABLE if you have watched the Hurricanes play. It is harder to observe if you are carelessly scanning end-of-season stat sheets.

Other things that happen when you don't really know anything about a player but need to tear him down on the internet:
- You judge him to have played 50% less elite-level hockey than he's actually played
- You don't realize there's a stark difference between his ice time at the beginning and end of a given season
- You project that his role must have been "reduced" due to an insignificant TOI change
- You judge his breakout and his relation to other players primarily on point production, when the player in question is a pure defensive defenseman

Perhaps it's time to stop digging and just put in the effort to actually know something meaningful about the subject.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Galchenyuk is underrated in this thread.

He is going to be the best player in this draft IMO.

 

[LeafsNation149]

So Connor Brown is better, younger and had a much better rookie season than Vesey, but Vesey is before him? umm okay

 

[Daximus]

What are you playing at in this thread? Was the strategy to wait until days later in the wee hours of the morning, just to slip a nitpicky last word under the radar?

I didn't say Slavin literally never touches the ice during a PP, so let's do away with that nonsense about 0:00. I said he "doesn't play on the PP". As demonstrated, he is not on either of the Hurricanes' PP units. If he's on the ice during a PP, it's either as a substitute in a pinch, or because he's starting the post -PP shift.

This is EASILY OBSERVABLE if you have watched the Hurricanes play. It is harder to observe if you are carelessly scanning end-of-season stat sheets.

Other things that happen when you don't really know anything about a player but need to tear him down on the internet:
- You judge him to have played 50% less elite-level hockey than he's actually played
- You don't realize there's a stark difference between his ice time at the beginning and end of a given season
- You project that his role must have been "reduced" due to an insignificant TOI change
- You judge his breakout and his relation to other players primarily on point production, when the player in question is a pure defensive defenseman

Perhaps it's time to stop digging and just put in the effort to actually know something meaningful about the subject.

No I had a wedding over the weekend to attend. Was busy and just replied. But yeah you did say he doesn't play on the powerplay I showed that to be false. Not sure where you are going with the rest of your post just accept you have been proven wrong and we can all carry on. Never once "teared" Slavin down I just said he isn't above some of the other D like Lindholm and Trouba yet like another poster stated. At best he's at the same level, at worst he's just below them. You can rest easy guard dog no one is tearing your precious player down.

 

[Sol]

Galchenyuk is underrated in this thread.

He is going to be the best player in this draft IMO.

He's properly rated imo, and if by some miracle he does become the best player in this draft, that is still not saying much.

 

[Machinehead]

That redraft sucks

But this^ redraft is pretty radical.