2012 Re-Draft on NHL.com is laughable

[tarheelhockey]

Instead of just attacking the poster, how come none of you Canes fans have posted your opinion on why Slavin is better than Trouba? I'll wait

Because nobody was advancing that agenda. Recall my original post here:

Don't even need to stir up arguments by comparing Slavin to other teams' young defensive studs.

I'm not interested in trying to put down Trouba. My issue is the series of factually-incorrect statements being made about Slavin, which would have been corrected without much fuss if Dax hadn't doubled and tripled and quadrupled and quintupled down on them.

 

[Daximus]

I'm not interested in trying to put down Trouba. My issue is the series of factually-incorrect statements being made about Slavin, which would have been corrected without much fuss if Dax hadn't doubled and tripled and quadrupled and quintupled down on them.

I quintupled down on the fact that Trouba has better points per game and is used in more situations? Which was my previous point? Well then I'll septuple down on it because it's true.

Ps you don't have to put down Trouba to compare the two. Don't be scared.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I quintupled down on the fact that Trouba has better points per game and is used in more situations? Which was my previous point? Well then I'll septuple down on it because it's true.

If you review the thread, you'll notice I didn't react to that point initially. Yeah, it's ridiculous to compare two defensemen based on point totals when one of them plays a MUCH more defensive game and they have a large discrepancy in deployment. But that's a typical mistake around here and was not commented upon at the time.

This one:

Considering he's only had 2 seasons then last year was likely his breakout. Unless you consider a 20 point season a breakout.

Is what got you in trouble. Correcting a Hurricanes fan on the timing of Slavin's breakout wasn't smart in the first place, but doing so based on his season-end scoring total was downright inane. That's stat abuse, as demonstrated very thoroughly.

TBH I don't know why you didn't just stop and say, "Ok, I learned something today" instead of carrying on about it. You're not going to internet-lawyer your way to a win when you have the basic facts wrong.


As for Trouba, he's a fine young defenseman. He's not a #1 as you claim, but neither are any of the players in this conversation really.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You're automatically assuming I've never seen him play. I've seen him play probably pretty close to the same I've seen Lindholm play. You won't see Ducks fans get ornery about me using stats to compare them. Obviously I've seen Trouba the most but you won't see me blow a gasket if you guys use stats to compare him to other players.

Nothing automatic about it. You've proven that fact conclusively with your previous statements (Slavin is on the Hurricanes PP) and your revealingly generic critique of his play.

Trouba can be prone to defensive brain farts and missed assignments, especially around the net. He's also pretty mediocre in terms of gap control and as strong on the puck as his size would allow. He's got great composure with the puck but still has a lot of room for improvement without it, which is what makes Slavin the superior defenseman.

I'm sure he'd have scored plenty of points sharing the ice with Laine, Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers, Little and playing more PP time. I wonder how many points Trouba would have put up playing in Carolina without being on either power play unit.

 

[Breakers]

Reilly is WAY too high

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Just for the record…

Up through February 10th 2016, Slavin was a sheltered, 18+ minute a defenseman who put up 10 points in 35 games (a 23+ point pace.)

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...r=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

On February 11th, 2016, Brad Malone happened and Justin Faulk would proceed to miss much of the rest of the season due to injury. Bill Peters called on Slavin to fill the void. From that date through the end of the season, Slavin was a 23+ minute a night defenseman who had a difficult deployment and put up 10 points in 28 games (a 29+ point pace.)

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...r=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

15-16 was Slavin's breakout. His 16-17 campaign was an extension of his play down the stretch in the prior season. The stats bear that out.

 

[JetsHomer]

Nothing automatic about it. You've proven that fact conclusively with your previous statements (Slavin is on the Hurricanes PP) and your revealingly generic critique of his play.

Trouba can be prone to defensive brain farts and missed assignments, especially around the net. He's also pretty mediocre in terms of gap control and as strong on the puck as his size would allow. He's got great composure with the puck but still has a lot of room for improvement without it, which is what makes Slavin the superior defenseman.

I'm sure he'd have scored plenty of points sharing the ice with Laine, Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers, Little and playing more PP time. I wonder how many points Trouba would have put up playing in Carolina without being on either power play unit.

Well you're a massive hypocrite

 

[Daximus]

Nothing automatic about it. You've proven that fact conclusively with your previous statements (Slavin is on the Hurricanes PP) and your revealingly generic critique of his play.

Trouba can be prone to defensive brain farts and missed assignments, especially around the net. He's also pretty mediocre in terms of gap control and as strong on the puck as his size would allow. He's got great composure with the puck but still has a lot of room for improvement without it, which is what makes Slavin the superior defenseman.

I'm sure he'd have scored plenty of points sharing the ice with Laine, Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers, Little and playing more PP time. I wonder how many points Trouba would have put up playing in Carolina without being on either power play unit.

I didn't say Slavin was on the PP I said he got PP time. Which is 100% verifiable and true.
You shouldn't assume anything about people, you just end up coming off extremely stuck up in your opinion.

 

[Daximus]

If you review the thread, you'll notice I didn't react to that point initially. Yeah, it's ridiculous to compare two defensemen based on point totals when one of them plays a MUCH more defensive game and they have a large discrepancy in deployment. But that's a typical mistake around here and was not commented upon at the time.

This one:



Is what got you in trouble. Correcting a Hurricanes fan on the timing of Slavin's breakout wasn't smart in the first place, but doing so based on his season-end scoring total was downright inane. That's stat abuse, as demonstrated very thoroughly.

TBH I don't know why you didn't just stop and say, "Ok, I learned something today" instead of carrying on about it. You're not going to internet-lawyer your way to a win when you have the basic facts wrong.


As for Trouba, he's a fine young defenseman. He's not a #1 as you claim, but neither are any of the players in this conversation really.

The 2nd part is simply a matter of context. A breakout season could imply a player playing at that level for an entire season. You refused to see it that way. Instead you imply a breakout season being half a season of play. You could definitely say that was when he brokeout but for all intents and purposes a breakout season should be a full season of play. Pretty sure I didn't even make the initial comment on it either.

 

[LeafFever]

Reilly is WAY too high

No. He's very good.

 

[JetsHomer]

No. He's very good.

He's not a top 5 Dman from the draft let alone a top 5 player

 

[LeafFever]

He's not a top 5 Dman from the draft let alone a top 5 player

There's not a single DMan who should be ahead of him who is not.
He was sensational in the playoffs.
Remember, this is a list who has Alex Galchenyuk #3.

 

[JetsHomer]

There's not a single DMan who should be ahead of him who is not.
He was sensational in the playoffs.
Remember, this is a list who has Alex Galchenyuk #3.

Lindholm, Trouba, Parayko and Slavin are all undeniably better than Rielly at the moment.

 

[LeafFever]

Lindholm, Trouba, Parayko and Slavin are all undeniably better than Rielly at the moment.

Lindholm is ahead of Rielly. And the others are not. This Slavin hype is getting ridiculous.
Parayko has not been tested in the least. Similar to how Shattenkirk looked exposed after leaving the Blues (And Rielly outplayed him badly in the playoffs).

 

[JetsHomer]

Lindholm is ahead of Rielly. And the others are not. This Slavin hype is getting ridiculous.

Trouba had been undeniably better than rielly in 4 of the 5 years since they were drafted. Slavin was much better than Rielly last year. Parayko has been better than Rielly the past 2 years.

This Rielly hype is ridiculous. He's right there with Ghost as 5th Dman from this draft

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

There's not a single DMan who should be ahead of him who is not.
He was sensational in the playoffs.
Remember, this is a list who has Alex Galchenyuk #3.

There isn't much right with that list but Lindholm being the first D taken over Reilly is something I strongly agree with.

 

[Breakers]

No. He's very good.

When did I say he wasn't good.

I'd still have at least 3 other d-man in front of him.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The 2nd part is simply a matter of context. .

He was the Hurricanes best defender pretty much as soon as he got called up to the team in 15-16. He was excellent that year, then this year he started getting noticed as he continued his stellar play.

Just because you want to doesn't make it true, and personally I wish people would shut the **** up about players they clearly don't know dick about.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Well you're a massive hypocrite

How am I a hypocrite? I've been following Trouba since his USNTDP days . . . Is that not a specific enough critique? Or is it that you disagree with my assessment of his opportunities for improvement?

 

[Daximus]

He was the Hurricanes best defender pretty much as soon as he got called up to the team in 15-16. He was excellent that year, then this year he started getting noticed as he continued his stellar play.

Just because you want to doesn't make it true, and personally I wish people would shut the **** up about players they clearly don't know dick about.

Which is usually what precludes a breakout. Getting noticed by people outside of your fanbase. Jesus it's like you guys think your team is some enigma that no one ever sees. Earth to Matilda, it's not.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The 2nd part is simply a matter of context. A breakout season could imply a player playing at that level for an entire season. You refused to see it that way. Instead you imply a breakout season being half a season of play. You could definitely say that was when he brokeout but for all intents and purposes a breakout season should be a full season of play. Pretty sure I didn't even make the initial comment on it either.

That moment when it pivots to a semantic argument.

 

[Daximus]

That moment when it pivots to a semantic argument.

Don't act like it always wasn't. I laid that out in my post, you just refused to accept it.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Don't act like it always wasn't. I laid that out in my post, you just refused to accept it.

Purely hypothetical question: Player 'X' has 20 goals as an 18 yo rookie, 25 as a 19 yo sophomore, but then scores 50 goals in the first 38 games as a 20 year old, but then scores 0 for the next 44.

Is that a breakout season?

 

[Daximus]

Purely hypothetical question: Player 'X' has 20 goals as an 18 yo rookie, 25 as a 19 yo sophomore, but then scores 50 goals in the first 38 games as a 20 year old, but then scores 0 for the next 44.

Is that a breakout season?

I'd say absolutely it is, he just scored 50 goals in ****ing 38 games. **** would hit the proverbial fan and you'd be stupid not to admit that. BTW Slavin did not do anywhere ****ing close to hitting 50 goals in 38 games. Like not even in the same god damn universe. He's so far away from that he might as well not even exist in comparison. Pretty **** comparison actually if you ask anyone reasonable. Give your head a heavy and at the same time a sensible shake for even trying. Don't cause any permanent damage but just rattle it a bit.

Forgive me but are actually trying to compare what Salvin did in half a season to scoring 50 goals in 38 games in today's scoring climate? **** here's some money for cab fare, let me show you the way out...

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I'd say absolutely it is, he just scored 50 goals in ****ing 38 games. **** would hit the proverbial fan and you'd be stupid not to admit that. BTW Slavin did not do anywhere ****ing close to hitting 50 goals in 38 games. Like not even in the same god damn universe. He's so far away from that he might as well not even exist in comparison. Pretty **** comparison actually if you ask anyone reasonable. Give your head a heavy and at the same time a sensible shake for even trying. Don't cause any permanent damage but just rattle it a bit.

Forgive me but are actually trying to compare what Salvin did in half a season to scoring 50 goals in 38 games in today's scoring climate? **** here's some money for a cab fare, let me show you the way out....

using a goal analogy for a defenseman might have been erroneous on my part but you get what i am saying

especially since you said two posts earlier that said player would have to maintain said level of play for an entire season for it to be a "break out"

now you are contradicting your own point by saying my example would in fact be a "break out" even though by your own admission it would be less than half a season