Zadina probably starting out in GR

[Hugh Mongusbig]

(looks around)

Isn't this a Zadina thread?

6G and 10 points in his first 14 games is actually pretty good all things considered. He looks to be gaining confidence and has been getting on the score sheet more often.
He got off to a slow start but has now been getting more consistent.
He had 2 points in his first 4 games, but has had 4G and 2A (6pts) in his last 5 games. That's a good sign that he is adjusting the play of the AHL and should only help his confidence going forward. And again, everyone needs to keep in mind that this kid is playing his rookie year of pro hockey in his D+1 season. I don't see many (any) other D+1 kids doing better than him in the AHL right now. I think he's going to be just fine, and I think he's going to figure things out sooner rather than later.

I can't wait to have Zadina and Mantha and AAA blasting one timers on opposing goalies for a long time.

 

[The Zermanator]

(looks around)

Isn't this a Zadina thread?

6G and 10 points in his first 14 games is actually pretty good all things considered. He looks to be gaining confidence and has been getting on the score sheet more often.
He got off to a slow start but has now been getting more consistent.
He had 2 points in his first 4 games, but has had 4G and 2A (6pts) in his last 5 games. That's a good sign that he is adjusting the play of the AHL and should only help his confidence going forward. And again, everyone needs to keep in mind that this kid is playing his rookie year of pro hockey in his D+1 season. I don't see many (any) other D+1 kids doing better than him in the AHL right now. I think he's going to be just fine, and I think he's going to figure things out sooner rather than later.

I can't wait to have Zadina and Mantha and AAA blasting one timers on opposing goalies for a long time.

We're treating Zadina like helicopter parents of an only child. We have so much invested into him because we haven't had a prospect of his pedigree in a loooong time. So the thought of him not meeting expectations has people going crazy.

If he's really turning the corner only ~15 games into his NA professional debut, that's a hell of a good sign.

 

[Henkka]

Both goals on the video.

 

[NickH8]

We're treating Zadina like helicopter parents of an only child. We have so much invested into him because we haven't had a prospect of his pedigree in a loooong time. So the thought of him not meeting expectations has people going crazy.

If he's really turning the corner only ~15 games into his NA professional debut, that's a hell of a good sign.

We're looking far too much into him. Same effect as the overscouting of Veleno.

 

[Henkka]

Mikko Rantanen had 24+36=60 points in 52 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.15 points/game
0.46 goals/game

David Pastrnak had 11+17=28 points in 25 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.12 points/game
0.44 goals/game

That's what I want Zadina to be. 1st line Elite sniper, and catching one point-per-game level would be the first signal of that.

***

Tomas Tatar had 16+16=32 points in 58 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
0.55 points/game
0.28 goals/game

Tatar's numbers as 18-year old are comparables, if you want Zadina to be a career 2nd liner (like Tatar).

 

[NickH8]

Mikko Rantanen had 24+36=60 points in 52 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.15 points/game
0.46 goals/game

David Pastrnak had 11+17=28 points in 25 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.12 points/game
0.44 goals/game

That's what I want Zadina to be. 1st line Elite sniper, and catching one point-per-game level would be the first signal of that.

***

Tomas Tatar had 16+16=32 points in 58 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
0.55 points/game
0.28 goals/game

Tatar's numbers as 18-year old are comparables, if you want Zadina to be a career 2nd liner (like Tatar).

If only we could look at how Rantanen and Pastrnak started and compare that. Rantanen specifically since he played the closest to a full season.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Mikko Rantanen had 24+36=60 points in 52 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.15 points/game
0.46 goals/game

David Pastrnak had 11+17=28 points in 25 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.12 points/game
0.44 goals/game

That's what I want Zadina to be. 1st line Elite sniper, and catching one point-per-game level would be the first signal of that.

***

Tomas Tatar had 16+16=32 points in 58 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
0.55 points/game
0.28 goals/game

Tatar's numbers as 18-year old are comparables, if you want Zadina to be a career 2nd liner (like Tatar).

I'll be honest, I don't really care about what they do in the AHL. If Zadina can get himself into good shooting positions and get himself high quality scoring chances, that's what I worry about. Stat-watching is stat-watching. If he can do more of what he did in this last game... even if goalies save the shots, I'll be happy with his growth.

Zadina when he makes it to Detroit will have better players feeding him the puck. I don't know how helpful "benchmarking" him by points in the AHL is. How were Rantanen and Pastrnak's teams?

 

[The Zermanator]

I'll be honest, I don't really care about what they do in the AHL. If Zadina can get himself into good shooting positions and get himself high quality scoring chances, that's what I worry about. Stat-watching is stat-watching. If he can do more of what he did in this last game... even if goalies save the shots, I'll be happy with his growth.

Zadina when he makes it to Detroit will have better players feeding him the puck. I don't know how helpful "benchmarking" him by points in the AHL is. How were Rantanen and Pastrnak's teams?

Well it does matter to a degree, elite players tend to become elite at every level they play.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well it does matter to a degree, elite players tend to become elite at every level they play.

I'm sorry, I should clarify. I don't care how they START in the AHL. If Zadina is there for a year and change and never becomes more than an okay player, I'll have an issue. But I'm not gonna try to make a call on a young kid in the middle of him learning.

 

[The Zermanator]

I'm sorry, I should clarify. I don't care how they START in the AHL. If Zadina is there for a year and change and never becomes more than an okay player, I'll have an issue. But I'm not gonna try to make a call on a young kid in the middle of him learning.

Yeah for sure. But that's where the stat watching comes in. By the end of the season I'd be a lot more comfortable seeing him in the Rantanen/Pastrnak tier of production.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Are you seriously using Kucherov as a barometer of realistic expectations for 2nd round picks? Gee I'll be so disappointed if our 5th and 6th rounders don't turn into Datsyuk and Zetterberg...



Mantha has had just as good a start to his NHL career as Nyquist had, with the exception of Nyquist's absolutely anomalous 48 pts in 57 gms in '13-'14. Nyquist is a 40-50 pt player, Mantha is already that... and Nyquist had the benefit of a better team early in his career.



Do you think anybody is rooting against Berggren here?!

The only person who seems to have an issue with a player is you with Mantha...

I personally think Mantha is primed for a breakout, he's only 24. Faaaar from guaranteed that Berggren reaches Mantha's level. 6'5" players who skate fast, shoot (extremely) hard, and with soft hands to boot don't exactly grow on trees.

Berggren will be the wings best player at some point that's my prediction for him. I mentioned Kucherov not as a bar but to discredit someone not being great just because of draft order...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I'll be honest, I don't really care about what they do in the AHL. If Zadina can get himself into good shooting positions and get himself high quality scoring chances, that's what I worry about. Stat-watching is stat-watching. If he can do more of what he did in this last game... even if goalies save the shots, I'll be happy with his growth.

Zadina when he makes it to Detroit will have better players feeding him the puck. I don't know how helpful "benchmarking" him by points in the AHL is. How were Rantanen and Pastrnak's teams?

Didn't you say he shouldn't be on the wings because of his poor stats in the A? Which one is it?

 

[Henkka]

I'll be honest, I don't really care about what they do in the AHL. If Zadina can get himself into good shooting positions and get himself high quality scoring chances, that's what I worry about. Stat-watching is stat-watching. If he can do more of what he did in this last game... even if goalies save the shots, I'll be happy with his growth.

Zadina when he makes it to Detroit will have better players feeding him the puck. I don't know how helpful "benchmarking" him by points in the AHL is. How were Rantanen and Pastrnak's teams?

It's nice to have some measuring stick. It doesn't maybe tell the whole truth but is better than nothing.

I didn't find any better seasons for 18-year old AHL-rookies (which will turn 19 during the season), than Rantanen's. I hope Zadina does better than him and raises the roof.

Pastrnak is also interesting age-comparable because of the player type, which is very same.

 

[newfy]

I think people should pump the breaks a little bit on his start for now. The raw numbers arent amazing, but he is only one point off the team lead right now and 2nd in goals. I also think that transition was made tougher by GR missing their top 5 dmen when he started down there. Now that the team is settling in I expect him to take off a little bit.

His numbers arent eye popping cazy but theyre also still arent so bad that people should worry either

 

[Reddwit]

If only we could look at how Rantanen and Pastrnak started and compare that. Rantanen specifically since he played the closest to a full season.

Rantanen - 4G, 14P in his first 12 AHL GP
Pastrnak - 3G, 13P in his first 12 AHL GP

 

[JoesuffP]

Well that just means Zadina has 1/4th more goals than Pastrnak the same point in the AHL so he’ll be 25 percent better goal scorer than him for his career. That’s how these projections work right?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

In order for Zadina to be labelled "Ryan Leaf"...he had to be first overall pick. Irrelevant.

Ryan leaf went second...

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Both goals on the video.

Totally looks out of place in the AHL...

 

[izlez]

Elite Prospects - AHL Stats All-time season

Looks like 5 points on the season is the benchmark before we can start hyping him up with "HE IS TOP 20 ALL-TIME IN AHL SCORING FOR 18 YEAR OLDS! THIS KID IS A BEAST!!"

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Didn't you say he shouldn't be on the wings because of his poor stats in the A? Which one is it?

I never said that. Ever.

He shouldn't be on the Wings right now because his play in the pre-season and early in the season in the A indicated he wasn't ready. He wasn't finding space for his shots. I've never once complained about Zadina's stats or used them as a barometer to keep him down. I may have said pump the brakes on him because he's not dominating on the farm, but I would have never once said "oh, he's 0.5 PPG in the A, he shouldn't be up here."

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Berggren will be the wings best player at some point that's my prediction for him. I mentioned Kucherov not as a bar but to discredit someone not being great just because of draft order...

And jesus christ, I didn't say Berggren would be bad because of his draft spot. I don't know why or how you took that out of what I said. I was saying that basically on average a guy who lasts 33 picks into a draft will more often than not turn out to be an okay player rather than the best player on a roster. It was in generality that a guy in the early 2nd round (steal or not) will be less likely to be a superstar. It wasn't that he wasn't a first so he's worthless, but more that the expectation should not be ZOMG this guy will be the best. If Berggren does stuff in the SHL and when he comes here in the AHL that make a mark, I'll change my tune. But before he actually comes over and does something, all I have to go by is average history of a prospect taken around that spot... and if you can't see a guy like Kucherov being far and away the anamoly at that draft position, I don't know what to tell you.

It's the same reason why Sheahan if he had ended up sticking with Detroit as a 3C would have been a really good pick at 21OA. Because compared to the average 21OA, that's a good career.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

And jesus christ, I didn't say Berggren would be bad because of his draft spot. I don't know why or how you took that out of what I said. I was saying that basically on average a guy who lasts 33 picks into a draft will more often than not turn out to be an okay player rather than the best player on a roster. It was in generality that a guy in the early 2nd round (steal or not) will be less likely to be a superstar. It wasn't that he wasn't a first so he's worthless, but more that the expectation should not be ZOMG this guy will be the best. If Berggren does stuff in the SHL and when he comes here in the AHL that make a mark, I'll change my tune. But before he actually comes over and does something, all I have to go by is average history of a prospect taken around that spot... and if you can't see a guy like Kucherov being far and away the anamoly at that draft position, I don't know what to tell you.

It's the same reason why Sheahan if he had ended up sticking with Detroit as a 3C would have been a really good pick at 21OA. Because compared to the average 21OA, that's a good career.

Again I wasn't comparing him to Kucherov. You said he was a second round pick like that means much. Plenty of players not drafted in the 1st round end up being superstars. KUCHEROV was the first one that came to mind. Like I said I would be vastly disappointed if he became Mantha not because Mantha sucks because I think Berggren can be a superstar.

 

[newfy]

Again I wasn't comparing him to Kucherov. You said he was a second round pick like that means much. Plenty of players not drafted in the 1st round end up being superstars. KUCHEROV was the first one that came to mind. Like I said I would be vastly disappointed if he became Mantha not because Mantha sucks because I think Berggren can be a superstar.

Saying he was a second round pick DOES mean much though. I'm not sure there are "plenty" of superstars not drafted in the first round but if there is by your definition, what do you call the way more significant number of guys who amount to absolutely nothing? I would guess there is at least 30 who do absolutely nothing for every star. If you start counting third or 4th liners who were picked in the second round with the complete nobodies I bet there is something like 50 or 60 for every one superstar. Especially in the last decade where scouting in European countries has mostly equalled out among teams.

Its up to you if you want to be disappointed in a second round pick not becoming a first line player or a star but just know that its more likely youre going to be disappointed and its a ridiculous stance/prediction to take/make given the history of the draft

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Saying he was a second round pick DOES mean much though. I'm not sure there are "plenty" of superstars not drafted in the first round but if there is by your definition, what do you call the way more significant number of guys who amount to absolutely nothing? I would guess there is at least 30 who do absolutely nothing for every star. If you start counting third or 4th liners who were picked in the second round with the complete nobodies I bet there is something like 50 or 60 for every one superstar. Especially in the last decade where scouting in European countries has mostly equalled out among teams.

Its up to you if you want to be disappointed in a second round pick not becoming a first line player or a star but just know that its more likely youre going to be disappointed and its a ridiculous stance/prediction to take/make given the history of the draft

Ok i guess if we don't pick first overall we have zero chance at a superstar. LOL!The irony is a team like Detroit has had at least 6 of them in the past 20-30 years taken waaaaay later than the second round.
https://thehockeywriters.com/the-best-late-round-nhl-draft-picks/
Draft position isn't the end all be all. Saying a 18 yr old that wasn't a first round pick so he has to be worse than Mantha is absurd. You all will see though . I will be bumping this when Berggren makes you fall out your "GM" couches

 

[Kingpin794]

Mikko Rantanen had 24+36=60 points in 52 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.15 points/game
0.46 goals/game

David Pastrnak had 11+17=28 points in 25 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
1.12 points/game
0.44 goals/game

That's what I want Zadina to be. 1st line Elite sniper, and catching one point-per-game level would be the first signal of that.

***

Tomas Tatar had 16+16=32 points in 58 games at same age as Zadina is now on his AHL-rookie season.
0.55 points/game
0.28 goals/game

Tatar's numbers as 18-year old are comparables, if you want Zadina to be a career 2nd liner (like Tatar).

Now to be fair, both Rantanen and Pastrnak each had a full year of pro hockey under their belt before they came to the AHL.

Rantenan had 9g, 19a, 56 gp in Liiga.
Pastrnak had 8g, 16a, 34 gp in the Allsvenskan

Then they came over and put up those nice numbers. Going from European pro to AHL is going to be easier than CHL to AHL.