Positive
Enjoy your flight
That Burtch article is pretty damning though. 5th worst shut-down man in the league...and we extended him for 7 years on an NMC. Better pick it up.
Exactly PS. For many GDT's, it seemed like it was some sort of meme to jump on Bogo. And then after the game, I would post that Bogo played the most minutes (usually), and was probably one of our better defenders.
I am looking forward to Truck's article on Bogo as well. Maybe some of my thoughts will change.
But Garret has also said the following:
"I only think Bogo has disappointed some because he is what he is and is not what he is not.
He is a solid 5v5 offensive defensemen who skates with the puck very, very well and solid PKer.
He is not a shutdown defensemen who crushes tough minutes (but on the other hand isn't crushed by them) and not a high-end power play producer.
Basically solid #2/3 depending on team dynamics, usage, depth.
IMO I'd love to see:
Enstrom-Trouba
X-Bogosian
Stuart-Clitsome/Postma"
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=82274499&postcount=658
Which is what I think and have said as well. Islander fans love Hamonic. Bogo is a better defenseman, but Bogo was drafted 3rd, and Hamonic at the top of the second. I think some people can't get the idea out of their head that Bogo should be as good or better than AP right now.
Injuries are a concern though and we need him to stay healthy for extended stretches for sure.
That Burtch article is pretty damning though. 5th worst shut-down man in the league...and we extended him for 7 years on an NMC. Better pick it up.
That Burtch article is pretty damning though. 5th worst shut-down man in the league...and we extended him for 7 years on an NMC. Better pick it up.
That Burtch article is pretty damning though. 5th worst shut-down man in the league...and we extended him for 7 years on an NMC. Better pick it up.
He played at that level or very close to it when paired with Enstrom and getting 23 plus minutes a night. Sorry, I don't agree with some people here that want to go all chicken little with Bogo on every little mistake. People should watch more hockey than just the Jets and this years playoffs is a great example of very good defensemen making boneheaded plays, but getting bailed out by their goalie. Bogo became a whipping boy here for some this year, and no matter what good he would do, people just loved to herp and derp about him in GDT's.
Bogo would be a solid middle pair guy on more than half of the current playoff teams IMO.
Yea we need Zach to stay healthier and sure he is not Doughty or Pietrangelo but as usual our board is over reacting to Bogo’s drop in production this season. Zach is a very solid top 4 NHL defender "as is" over his sample size in Winnipeg. I agree with your sentiment on watching other playoff teams and games and even the best of the best are getting their pants pulled down allot. To defend is to get embarrassed at some point.
That Burtch article is pretty damning though. 5th worst shut-down man in the league...and we extended him for 7 years on an NMC. Better pick it up.
He's not even close to the fifth worst Dman on his team, so could you clarify what you're saying here?
Burtch's words; not mine. Here's the article from 2 pages back.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/7/30/4570108/sdi-v2-1-shut-down-index-2012-13-part-2
edit: he's actually 6th from the bottom of Burtch's list
People are taking seriously a stat that says Franson is a top 20 shutdown defender and that he's better in that role than Bogosian?
I get that the eye test is not perfectly reliable, but common. If that author truly thinks that a Chara - Franson pairing would have better results than Chara - Seidinberg than I think he really needs to reevaluate the statistic he invented.
Burtch's words; not mine. Here's the article from 2 pages back.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/7/30/4570108/sdi-v2-1-shut-down-index-2012-13-part-2
edit: he's actually 6th from the bottom of Burtch's list
Article is from this past summer.
I had an argument about this on the trade board at the start of the season. Wasn't based on this specific article, but it was a similar premise. Bogo is a terrible shutdown defender, Bogo is wildly overrated, Bogo's production is mostly luck, etc.
I'm not going to give the full argument, but I'll give the Coles notes:
-Bogo's raw possession numbers aren't very good
-Put in context, Bogosian's possession numbers don't look so bad. Taking 2013 as an example: out of the 51 defensemen with less than 47.5% OZS and positive QoC, Bogo is 19th in that group for raw Corsi, and 28th in relative Corsi. Oh, and 14th toughest minutes (measured in rel QoC for that cohort).
-Bogosian has historically produced at an excellent rate for even strength. #9 in the entire league for ES points per 60 minutes from 2011 to 2013. His production was somewhat luck driven in 2013 (close to 10% on-ice shooting percentage), but it wasn't in 2011-12.
This is all based on his numbers from 2011 to 2013. I haven't taken a really close look at his performance metrics from this season.
As much as I hate to say this, he might need a change of scenery. He's a great fit with the Jets, but Trouba can probably take the responsibility off his hands. Send him to a contender (like Pittsburgh or something) where he'd get excellent minutes and bring back lots of assets for Winnipeg. He might be a Norris contender with another team and would be more noticed. But as I see him, he's like the most talented/excellent player on the Jets.
I am going to pretend you are talking about Byfuglien and agree with you.
Byfuglien is one of our most overrated players, possibly even top ten most overrated in the NHL.
But about Bogosian has been with the team for six years and he's been nothing but a great guy to the fans and the organization (only mean thing if its considered mean is go from 4 to 44, and apologized to the fans), doesn't he deserve to compete for the cup?
Hopefully answered some of this here:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014...innipeg-jets-zach-bogosian-defense/in/5406265
Basically sums up where I'm at with Bogo.
You can never go wrong with a second pairing guy who produces offense. Bogo does that well, and his poor production in 2013-14 is probably an abberation. I'm pumping the brakes on any expectation that he becomes a solid first pairing guy on a contending team.
Depends on usage.
Chicago example gives their top and bottom pair d soft minutes because they have a super good shutdown defensive-zone specialist unit:
Bolig-Kruger-Smith
Hjamm-Oduya
In that type of system, I think Bogo can take huge minutes and still be a solid "1st pair guy on a contending team".
Otherwise though I'd prefer to limit mins to 2nd pair.
Hopefully answered some of this here:
http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014...innipeg-jets-zach-bogosian-defense/in/5406265