Worst GM in the league right now

[bert]

Bergevin leading is absolutely hilarious. Shows how the hf hive mind has absolutely no clue.

 

[Critical13]

I never said Dubas was the absolute worst, but I was originally responding to someone who said that he was "middle of the pack" for GMs, which is ridiculous. As a GM in Toronto, there is never not a reason to spend all the way up to the cap. I also know that if Matthews and Marner were in St. Louis, they would never have gotten more than 10M.

We will never know if that's true, will we? Who was the last RFA St. Louis signed that was a top 3 goal scorer since entering the league at 18? Who was the last player they signed who had 94 points as a 20 year old?This isn't some snobby shot at St. Louis, I actually don't know the answer.

Middle of the pack...well, I guess I want to see how this season goes. Everything outside of overpaying Marner and not getting enough term on Matthews has been solid. Definitely not up there with the Joe Sakic's ot Steve Yzerman's of the world, but he's had some shrewd moves.

I see St. Louis like the Raptors - built "the right way", making more of having fewer resources. It's really hard to compare them to, say, the Knicks because the pressures and expectations are different. I am really grateful for that when cheering on the Raptors, it's nice to never be laughed at like the Knicks, but I also know we aren't judged as harshly.

 

[Critical13]

Bergevin leading is absolutely hilarious. Shows how the hf hive mind has absolutely no clue.

The poll was started a while ago.

There's no tandem in the NHL worse than Subban/Delia.

AINEC

Well damn, that's a low bar! lol

Chicago trying to go even lower than Toronto's low bar set for goaltending:

 

[bert]

The poll was started a while ago.


Well damn, that's a low bar! lol

Chicago trying to go even lower than Toronto's low bar set for goaltending:

Thats the point im trying to make.... GM's have a vision clearly most here couldnt see his. All you have to do is go to the early Chayka threads to see the stroke off. Real hockey people know what they are doing. Playing the sport at a high level matters.

 

[ClydeLee]

Thats the point im trying to make.... GM's have a vision clearly most here couldnt see his. All you have to do is go to the early Chayka threads to see the stroke off. Real hockey people know what they are doing. Playing the sport at a high level matters.

How long do NHL gms get to plan out their vision? A decade is quite awhile.

 

[Just Linda]

Bergevin leading is absolutely hilarious. Shows how the hf hive mind has absolutely no clue.

Well c'mon, you know it's not actually what Hf believes and instead is just people trolling the OP. If a Toronto fan would've posted this, Dubas would've had the most votes. If a Nucks fan would've posted this, Benning would have won etc

 

[bert]

How long do NHL gms get to plan out their vision? A decade is quite awhile.

Were you as good at your job at the start as you are now?

 

[ClydeLee]

Were you as good at your job at the start as you are now?

Sometimes you get worse or you put yourself into positions worse than what you were before.

As far as it looks, MB has entirely been viewing his team as win now. He never seemed to change the vision of looking to the future much and has been able to at least make some strong trades like Suzuki. But does it look like he has ever built a contender out of 9 years of trying? Do they look close to contending?

 

[bert]

Sometimes you get worse or you put yourself into positions worse than what you were before.

As far as it looks, MB has entirely been viewing his team as win now. He never seemed to change the vision of looking to the future much and has been able to at least make some strong trades like Suzuki. But does it look like he has ever built a contender out of 9 years of trying? Do they look close to contending?

I think like Benning he has learned from some of his mistakes and is much better at his job now. I do believe Montreal is contender, they are built to win in the playoffs. Unlike another high profile canadian franchise. As a sens fan I get pretty terrific exposure to both teams. I also know exactly what not to do haha.

 

[BlueMed]

We will never know if that's true, will we? Who was the last RFA St. Louis signed that was a top 3 goal scorer since entering the league at 18? Who was the last player they signed who had 94 points as a 20 year old?This isn't some snobby shot at St. Louis, I actually don't know the answer.

Middle of the pack...well, I guess I want to see how this season goes. Everything outside of overpaying Marner and not getting enough term on Matthews has been solid. Definitely not up there with the Joe Sakic's ot Steve Yzerman's of the world, but he's had some shrewd moves.

I see St. Louis like the Raptors - built "the right way", making more of having fewer resources. It's really hard to compare them to, say, the Knicks because the pressures and expectations are different. I am really grateful for that when cheering on the Raptors, it's nice to never be laughed at like the Knicks, but I also know we aren't judged as harshly.

Just to answer your question, Army signed Tarasenko for 7.5M over 8 years after a 73 point season and 10 goals in 13 playoff games. He later became top 3 in goals scored over a 5 year stretch. Personally, I don't think points should be the focus of discussion when negotiating contracts because different teams have different playing styles lending to point inflation. Put Marner on the Blues and force him to forecheck, back check, hit, and play good defense and watch his point totals go down but his on-ice impact go up.

 

[Critical13]

Just to answer your question, Army signed Tarasenko for 7.5M over 8 years after a 73 point season and 10 goals in 13 playoff games. He later became top 3 in goals scored over a 5 year stretch. Personally, I don't think points should be the focus of discussion when negotiating contracts because different teams have different playing styles lending to point inflation. Put Marner on the Blues and force him to forecheck, back check, hit, and play good defense and watch his point totals go down but his on-ice impact go up.

Personally, I don't think it's that easy. Put Mitch Marner in front of Parayko et all, and surrounded by Schenn types, and I think suddenly he isn't being crucified nightly. Morgan Rielly is just really not good at defence...at one time, he seemed to be making strides, but 2 years ago he fell off the wagon. He's never been the same.

Even with changes ina system, 95 points is impressive, as is averaging 0.5 goals per game like Matthews did. They got overpaid/too little term, but we're talking a couple million here. A truly bad GM may not make thatr mistake, but they may sign a 3rd line for 4-5 million, or a 6th defencemen to 5x5.

To me, those contracts get talked about far less than the Leafs "big 4", and I've accepted that it's just part of having your home team be one of the larger ones. I think every GM in the league could stomach Marner or Matthews on their current deals, but not many could stomach Karlsson, Doughty, J Toews, T. Myers, Eriksson, etc. One thing Dubas hasn't done yet is sign a Zaitsev/Marleau/Clarkson boat anchor.

And if you made it through another of my novels, I would like to say I think Tarasenko is one of the most complete players in the league and his deal is an absolute gem. I watched him live a few times, my favourite being in Buffalo at the WJCs where I became a true believer. Him a Kuz were....well, results speak for themselves.

 

[SouthWest]

Dubas, no question at all.

 

[The don godfather]

Dubas all the way.

 

[tmurfin]

Thats the point im trying to make.... GM's have a vision clearly most here couldnt see his. All you have to do is go to the early Chayka threads to see the stroke off. Real hockey people know what they are doing. Playing the sport at a high level matters.

We can’t just throw blind faith behind “real hockey people”. The Oilers have had nothing but “real hockey people” swarming their head office for decades and look how that’s worked out. Darryl Sutter was a “real hockey person” and he f***ed Calgary raw his last couple years as GM. It’s fair to criticize and judge their moves as they happen. They are highly paid professionals doing a very public job.

 

[freakydallas13]

Stan Bowman and Jim Rutherford stood out for me, but I had to give it to Doug Wilson for all those awful longterm contracts he saddled the sharks with.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He overpaid Nylander by 1M, Marner by 2.5M, Matthews by 2.5M, and Tavares by 2M. Thats 8M.

so you think UFA Tavares, who turned down more from San Jose to sign in Toronto as a free agent, is taking 9 million.

you think Auston Matthews is taking a little over 9 million.

and you think Marner is taking a little over 8 million coming off a 94 point season.

you are dreaming in technicolour my friend. with dolby surround.

It's still funny those who think Nylander is overpaid at $6.96 million AAV, because I'm sure any other team would take him at that contract after scoring 31 goals 68 games last season.

 

[Voight]

I never said Dubas was the absolute worst, but I was originally responding to someone who said that he was "middle of the pack" for GMs, which is ridiculous. As a GM in Toronto, there is never not a reason to spend all the way up to the cap. I also know that if Matthews and Marner were in St. Louis, they would never have gotten more than 10M.

& the Blues would've lost them to RFA.

Once Eichel and McDavid got 10 million+ there was absolutely ZERO chance Matthews was getting less than 10/year.

Marner put up 94 points in a contract year.... was going to be very hard to get him for less than 10. Especially with Matthews up for a new deal at the same time.

Oilers were lucky in that LD hadn't exploded offensively when his ELC was up and that McDavid hadn't reset the RFA market yet.

 

[Critical13]

I can't help but wonder if Dubas wasn't a 30 something analyst minded Rachel Maddow look alike, and instead was a grizzled old vet with a beard and an extra 40lbs, he might be judged differently. I think the whole "our powerplay will be our toughness/we can and we will" thing has left a sour taste in many mouths that good drafting and shrewd trades cannot rinse clean.

 

[LeafsNation75]

& the Blues would've lost them to RFA.

Once Eichel and McDavid got 10 million+ there was absolutely ZERO chance Matthews was getting less than 10/year.

Marner put up 94 points in a contract year.... was going to be very hard to get him for less than 10. Especially with Matthews up for a new deal at the same time.

Oilers were lucky in that LD hadn't exploded offensively when his ELC was up and that McDavid hadn't reset the RFA market yet.

At the time when we saw what Eichel's extension was everyone said Matthews deserved to make more money than him.

What we didn't expect was for him to sign a 5 year extension, however despite that he did deserve to make more than Eichel and less than McDavid.

 

[BlueMed]

It's still funny those who think Nylander is overpaid at $6.96 million AAV, because I'm sure any other team would take him at that contract after scoring 31 goals 68 games last season.

How many goals would he have scored if he was fully committed to forechecking, back checking, hitting, and good defense?

 

[McRpro]

& the Blues would've lost them to RFA.

Once Eichel and McDavid got 10 million+ there was absolutely ZERO chance Matthews was getting less than 10/year.

Marner put up 94 points in a contract year.... was going to be very hard to get him for less than 10. Especially with Matthews up for a new deal at the same time.

Oilers were lucky in that LD hadn't exploded offensively when his ELC was up and that McDavid hadn't reset the RFA market yet.

The term was the big problem with that Matthews contract. Should have got 8 years if the Leafs were ponying up that kind of cash.

 

[BlueMed]

& the Blues would've lost them to RFA.

Once Eichel and McDavid got 10 million+ there was absolutely ZERO chance Matthews was getting less than 10/year.

Marner put up 94 points in a contract year.... was going to be very hard to get him for less than 10. Especially with Matthews up for a new deal at the same time.

Oilers were lucky in that LD hadn't exploded offensively when his ELC was up and that McDavid hadn't reset the RFA market yet.

My contention was that had Marner or Matthews played on STL, they wouldn't have gotten those inflated point totals to begin with. STL is about defense first. Any hockey player will tell you that playing the game the right way (forechecking, backchecking, hitting, and good defense) will decrease your point totals. This is a big reason why Toronto hasn't gotten out of the first round. They won't play the right way and consistently get bounced by other teams like Boston and Columbus who do.

 

[LeafsNation75]

How many goals would he have scored if he was fully committed to forechecking, back checking, hitting, and good defense?

If Nylander was overpaid after having back to back 61 point seasons in 2017 and 2018, I guess Kevin Hayes got overpaid by the Flyers after he had 54 points in 2018-19 with the Rangers and Jets. He signed for 7 years with an AAV of $7.14 million.

 

[Voight]

The term was the big problem with that Matthews contract. Should have got 8 years if the Leafs were ponying up that kind of cash.

I agree, but things cant always be perfect. Main thing is they got him signed and didn't risk losing him as according to Friedman, Arizona was going to come at him with a massive offer sheet.

 

[BlueMed]

If Nylander was overpaid after having back to back 61 point seasons in 2017 and 2018, I guess Kevin Hayes got overpaid by the Flyers after he had 54 points in 2018-19 with the Rangers and Jets. He signed for 7 years with an AAV of $7.14 million.

You didn't answer my question. I'll repeat it then: How many goals would Nylander (or Marner) have scored if he was fully committed to forechecking, back checking, hitting, and good defense?