Winnipeg Police arrest Scalpers (Jets Ticket Scalpers)

[Fugu]

The unethical thing is that you have an agreement. Some people think its ok to bypass that agreement to make a few bucks if its with a faceless multimillion dollar corporation that gouges you at every opportunity they get. Some dont, since its an agreement.

I wonder if the police would arrest people if they bought tickets under face value if a team sucked. The tickets would be sold for something other than the agreed upon amount.

Yes, it only seems to be an issue if you sell them for more, not if you unload them for anything you can get. Even if we accept the 'licensing' aspect to this, a ticket purchaser should never be able to sell the ticket for anything but the face value. Wording it any other way means it implicit that no one else can make a buck if they cannot get the price right, or prevent market manipulation by larger buyers/brokers.

And the only thing ridiculous is your continued attempt to justify an action that has been deemed illegal.

I think I'm pointing out why a perfectly legal activity is indeed deemed illegal in some places. Breech of contract or license agreement isn't illegal, but a harmed party has a right to seek damages.

Honestly, if this were an issue of harm to society, these people would end with far stiffer fines and even jail time. The silly rap on the wrist illustrates how ridiculous the entire notion is of pushing the enforcement of a corporate policy onto the public sector.


@kdb and Yosemite. Further to my point above, there are means, even if cumbersome for controlling permits to access of public parks/facilities that have had to put in limitations. You simply match the permit name to the entrant, for example.

 

[Fugu]

The law as it is written is dumb... it specifies something along the lines of you can't sell for a price greater than that paid to the provider. Now is that the price I paid for the ticket, or the price someone else paid for a similar ticket, or the price someone in the building paid regardless of whether it's in the price range I own (i.e. I own the cheep seat, can I sell it for the price of the glass seats)? Nowhere does the law say "face value". The STH agreement states you can sell for the price printed on the ticket, the price paid for the ticket, and also tips it hat to provincial legislation. WHICH IS IT MAN!!! That being said, I honestly don't see the Vice Squad (that is the proper name for them here (not Morals)) chasing you down for selling at face falue (that is a 55% markup for the home opener). I think the law is dumb, but with the socialists firmly in power (shakes fist at dirty socialists) for the next four years nothing will change.

Agreed. It's not a law designed to protect its citizenry, but to push off an agreement's enforcement onto the public sector. Would the company be able to show there was material harm, the litmus test for contractual disputes (I presume)?

The issue I have with this affair is that the Vice Squad turned the tickets over to TNSE, these tix are now evidence. The offense notice issued would not have had a fine associated with it as there is not a fixed fine assigned in provincial regulations for the Amusements Act, so the offender will have to appear in court. They are at this point still innocent, i want to know the justification for ratting them out to TNSE by some bak channel. This will at some point become part of the public court record, that is how TNSE should find out about this matter IMO.

So our dear little Fehr Time actually has a good point when he said, in the OP, "Apparently the police in Winnipeg are now acting as the exclusive law enforcement of TNSE."

TNSE would need to follow due process to reclaim the tickets, and find out the associated names.

Do the alleged perpetrators have any recourse in this regard? Privacy laws/due process?

The law in the Province of Manitoba says... "Thou shalt not scalp!"

If you don't agree with the law get the gov't to change it.

Until that happens... Book 'em Dano!

I guess some people are still arguing whether or not the law exists. That's been accepted. Is it okay with you if we discuss how stupid it is to make laws about transactions that private parties choose to engage in, that may or may not be a breach of another agreement? For example--- resale at any price should be covered by the same agreement, no, not just a higher price. If the harm is deemed to be to the business and how it wishes to set itself up, selling at lower prices would be akin to dumping. There are countries that get penalized for this form of market manipulation.

 

[Whileee]

Ah, sorry Whileee, but I think the Leafs fans in Toronto can lay claim to that particular form of neurotropical delights from the Lyssavirus genus family. Pupils the size of pancakes pressed against the glass. Apoplexy, paralysis, anxiety, insomnia, confusion, agitation, paranoia, hallucinations, delirium...

Oh, no argument from me, Killion. Torontonian hockey fanatics live in their own private H-E-double hockey sticks...

 

[Killion]

I guess some people are still arguing whether or not the law exists.

Manitoba does indeed have on its books under the Amusement Act that ticket re-sales for profit are illegal, punishable with revocation & fines. Almost all Canadian provinces have them, however none of them actually ever enforce them as its far too difficult to police. Its simply window dressing, political posturing. This is the first time in ages Ive seen an NHL team do anything about it, but certainly the IOC & Vanoc before & during the Olympics tried everything humanly possible to put an end to it but simply couldnt. $50,000+ for a pair of tickets to the Mens Finals in Hockey. Off Craigslist. Cash only.

In early September, Legislation was introduced in Quebec to prohibit/ban on-line ticket re-sellers, opponents correctly claiming that the now legally licensed "Ticket Brokers" will simply move their domains out of the province & force the market underground, losing tens of millions in taxes the Brokers now pay to the province of Quebec. Further, it will frustrate Habs fans in their ability to get tickets, no matter the cost. More harm than good, yet Politicians of all stripes up here just love this kind of toothless legislation in their vain glorious self absorbed sanctimonious....

Note; Alberta rescinded the anti-scalping legislation as it was/is impossible to enforce.

 

[MaskedSonja]

My personal impression of the situation is that-from a media standpoint-this is "News" because it's the Jets, new team, ect ect-so it's newsworthy. TNSE is trying to get the message across in this still very early times-like the buying of the rights to the jerseys and now getting this crackdown on tickets-that they are in total control of stuff involving their product.

I'm gonna go out on a proverbial limb and even 2-3 years from now, this will be (newswise anyway) a non-issue, and perhaps it will go quietly away from the public view- and like a city like Toronto or Montreal, it will be business as usual.

Also, it will be interesting to see TNSE going forward-they really seem to go the extra mile in having a huge say in what is seen with the team, how things are optically. Don't get me wrong, I think it's commendable because they really want to get across the idea that they are going to "take care" of the brand so it will be one of value and trust in the fans eyes.

 

[Whileee]

Winnipeg is bonkers for hockey right now... So maybe we're all missing the real reason that the Winnipeg Police Service is cracking down on scalpers... a bunch of them were shut out of season tickets. Revenge, best served cold. Also, shortening the waiting list seems a logical option....

 

[kdb209]

So customers give their credit card numbers in advance with the markup before they go on sale? They should just try to buy the tickets themselves.

They generally can't - all of the available campsite reservations are sucked up by scalpers within moments of them being released for sale.

So instead, the buyer gives the "reservation service" his CC # in advance and a list of dates, the scalper gets the reservation, pays the $20/night campsite fee with the customers credit card and then charges an additional $40-$80+/night.

@kdb and Yosemite. Further to my point above, there are means, even if cumbersome for controlling permits to access of public parks/facilities that have had to put in limitations. You simply match the permit name to the entrant, for example.

The Park Service tried that - they made reservations non-transferable and had the rangers check ID & credit card at check in. The scalpers responded, as I noted above, by simply making the reservations with the buyers pre-provided credit card numbers. The park service has tried several other methods to try to make the process "fair", but the scalpers have quickly adjusted in each case.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Winnipeg is bonkers for hockey right now... So maybe we're all missing the real reason that the Winnipeg Police Service is cracking down on scalpers... a bunch of them were shut out of season tickets. Revenge, best served cold. Also, shortening the waiting list seems a logical option....

You might have something there And yes it will shorten the waiting list, ends justifying means and all that (with maybe a bit of schedenfreude (sp)-"if I can't have it, and you abuse it, neither will you!"

 

[Confucius]

I always hit Accept when I download new software or its update.

I am not qualified as a lawyer, and thus have no idea what rights I just signed away by clicking Accept.

Reminds me of the situation, I think I accepted when I joined here

Anyway I think the scalpers have every right to resell their tickets. They buy in bulk and take the risk of reselling individual tickets, often waiting until just before game time to unload their stock. I don't see how it is any different than most businesses which deal in consumer products. A guy buys a truckload of topsoil in the fall of the year and resells it by the bag in the spring for 10 times what he paid for it. That's just how alot of business works.

 

[Killion]

A guy buys a truckload of topsoil in the fall of the year and resells it by the bag in the spring for 10 times what he paid for it. That's just how alot of business works.

Indeed it is. Just watch any episode of American/Canadian Pickers.
I get so angry with those guys I cant bear to sit through it anymore...

 

[MaskedSonja]

Indeed it is. Just watch any episode of American/Canadian Pickers.
I get so angry with those guys I cant bear to sit through it anymore...

Take some heart in this though: Pawn dealers now are having to deal with a HUGE influx of people bringing all their stuff in (90 percent of it junk) who are probably starting to get tired of the "picker-wannabe's"

That's why I was glad to see Antiques Roadshow at the end of their shows start showing people who showed up and during credits talking about how their stuff was actually quite worthless-and that the stuff that appears on the show is specifically picked out of many, many objects.

 

[BLONG7]

Shouldn't the police be busy taking care of real crime?

 

[Mungman]

Winnipeg is bonkers for hockey right now... So maybe we're all missing the real reason that the Winnipeg Police Service is cracking down on scalpers... a bunch of them were shut out of season tickets. Revenge, best served cold. Also, shortening the waiting list seems a logical option....

And we have a winner, cops like hockey too....

 

[Mungman]

So our dear little Fehr Time actually has a good point when he said, in the OP, "Apparently the police in Winnipeg are now acting as the exclusive law enforcement of TNSE."

TNSE would need to follow due process to reclaim the tickets, and find out the associated names.

Do the alleged perpetrators have any recourse in this regard? Privacy laws/due process?

Interesting, they may have some recourse against the police under FIPPA (freedom of information privacy protection act), it's a pretty restricting piece of legislation. Even if theres a clause in the ticket purchase agreement to not sell over face value the cops shouldn't have sent the tix back to TNSE as that would be a matter for the civil court, the police wouldnt be involved in that end of the justice system.

 

[Killion]

Pawn dealers now are having to deal with a HUGE influx of people bringing all their stuff..

Well, I empathize with an earlier posters rant&rage against the parasitic nature of ticket brokers & scalpers, the fact is theres no way to stop it. They'll just invent new ways to beat the system. I dont know that drawing an analogy to Pawn Brokers is quite accurate though TL; most people who go that route need quick cash & ya, wind up getting their eyes plucked out. The Palm Beach & New York dealers making a killing off of the already distressed Madoff victims for eg... both groups as unseemly as Scrooges' Charwoman Mrs.Dilbur. Tearing down the bed curtains & linens to sell off with poor old Ebenezers corpse still warm... human beings are just plain disappointing.

 

[takehisheadoff]

i'd buy scalped tickets. Even if I paid more. Theres laws to follow then there is stupidity buying tickets to an event is not stupid. Buying fake ones however is

 

[syc]

Sure, but you can make the argument that the Winnipeg Police shouldn't be acting as TNSE's contract enforcement agents.

It's even more true when you consider that the Peg has the highest violent crime rate in Canada. Way to use those public resources efficiently.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Actually, scalping is actually legal in most jurisdictions - subject to restrictions in state and local law.

In California, scalping is legal except on the premises of the venue. You can't scalp at the Tank, but you can right accross the street(*).

(*) However you can't sell anything on the street in San Jose without a Peddlers License. The cops used to bust scalpers under the Peddling ordinance - now the regular scalpers have just paid the annual fees and gone through the required background checks and now all display a SJ Peddlers Permit on lanyards around their necks.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-r-0761.htm

There is no provincial law in BC against scalping tickets. In Metro Vancouver, the only municipality with an anti-scalping by-law is Burnaby AFAIK.

When Burkie was here as GM he tried to push the BC government and Vancouver City Council to enact anti-scalping laws without success.

 

[Killion]

There is no provincial law in BC against scalping tickets. In Metro Vancouver, the only municipality with an anti-scalping by-law is Burnaby AFAIK. When Burkie was here as GM he tried to push the BC government and Vancouver City Council to enact anti-scalping laws without success.

Yes, I re-call that in the period leading up to & for the first couple of years of the new arena's existence with both the Canucks & Grizzlies playing out of then GM Place, Orca Bay was mightily disturbed to find themselves contending with the rise of licensed ticket brokers & increased scalping activities all within a weak wristshot of Griffiths Way.

 

[kmad]

scalpers are the scum of the earth who leetch on the hopes and dreams of unwavering fans.... I hope they lock up these sorry excuses of human beings who prey on fans of the game.

And then after that I guess we'll go after those Somalian warlords.

 

[Fehr Time*]

Interesting, they may have some recourse against the police under FIPPA (freedom of information privacy protection act), it's a pretty restricting piece of legislation. Even if theres a clause in the ticket purchase agreement to not sell over face value the cops shouldn't have sent the tix back to TNSE as that would be a matter for the civil court, the police wouldnt be involved in that end of the justice system.

And we can only imagine what TNSE is going to do with those tickets they got back. They wouldn't sell them again would they?

 

[AlanHUK]

People are actually feeling sorry for the 'scalpers' who knowingly broke the law, and even if the law was repealed breached the terms and conditions of their season ticket purchase?

I wish scalping was illegal here, it results in actual fans not being able to get to events and them being full of either spoilt rich kids, or corporate types who go not for love of the game but for the status of being there.

And long term that is bad for the team, because it will create disintrest if genuine fans cannot afford to go.

This is the same for all sporting/live events, if you want current examples of falling attendance look at the UK music festival scene, or recent sports events involving the English national teams.

 

[Confucius]

People are actually feeling sorry for the 'scalpers' who knowingly broke the law, and even if the law was repealed breached the terms and conditions of their season ticket purchase?

I wish scalping was illegal here, it results in actual fans not being able to get to events and them being full of either spoilt rich kids, or corporate types who go not for love of the game but for the status of being there.

And long term that is bad for the team, because it will create disintrest if genuine fans cannot afford to go.

This is the same for all sporting/live events, if you want current examples of falling attendance look at the UK music festival scene, or recent sports events involving the English national teams.

Yeah rich people are bad and they can't be real fans either.

 

[Hollywood3]

What about "convenience fees"?

Every event (hockey, wrestling, concerts) advertises ticket prices. But you can never buy a ticket for that price anywhere. Even if you show up at the venue and pay, the "convenience fee" and "service charge" is levied.

Therefore I would like to see the cops charge Ticketmaster with a crime.

Otherwise, I would like all scalpers to simply allocate their services as "convenience fees".

 

[Win Jiggys Loft]

Book em' Lou

Bake 'em away, toys!