Winnipeg Police arrest Scalpers (Jets Ticket Scalpers)

Fehr Time*

Guest
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2011/10/07/mb-ticket-scalping-winnipeg.html

Can you believe this nonsense? Apparently the police in Winnipeg are now acting as the exclusive law enforcement of TNSE. Who the heck goes out of their way to enforce scalping laws these days? Apparently supply and demand economics are a foreign concept in Winnipeg. The only ones who did anything wrong here was TNSE for incorrectly reading the marketplace for tickets when determining their pricing. Now it looks like they are whining about it.

A black mark IMO on the return of the NHL to Winnipeg. For shame. :shakehead
 
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Buckets and Gloves

klaatu barada nikto
Aug 14, 2011
7,578
175
scalpers are the scum of the earth who leetch on the hopes and dreams of unwavering fans.... I hope they lock up these sorry excuses of human beings who prey on fans of the game.
 

Sundance

You Can Never Get To
Sep 7, 2010
2,432
177
Lillyhammer
Scalping is perfectly legal...as long as it's not on the premesis of the event.
This is a dick move by TNSE, sticking it to the fans. Tut, tut.
 

pdxshark

Registered User
Apr 26, 2006
1,085
0
Portland, OR
someone just learned about adam smith :sarcasm:

Scalping is wrong. Jacking up prices due to low supply is not a market dynamic, its called taking advantage of a shortage. Not going to go on a pedestal or anything but why would there be outrage over the police enforcing a well known law?
 

Fordy

Registered User
May 28, 2008
26,799
2,935
someone just learned about adam smith :sarcasm:

Scalping is wrong. Jacking up prices due to low supply is not a market dynamic, its called taking advantage of a shortage. Not going to go on a pedestal or anything but why would there be outrage over the police enforcing a well known law?

I don't know anyone that likes and supports scalping except... scalpers.
 

SJSharks2010

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
2,102
0
Sudbury, Ontario
Wow really? Sympathy for the scalpers (criminals)? How about some sympathy for the people who can't afford to pay exorbitant prices for tickets to a sporting event?
MOD
 
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Fehr Time*

Guest
Wow really? Sympathy for the scalpers (criminals)? How about some sympathy for the people who can't afford to pay exorbitant prices for tickets to a sporting event?

That is in the eyes of the beholder, as per usual.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2011/10/07/mb-ticket-scalping-winnipeg.html

Can you believe this nonsense? Apparently the police in Winnipeg are now acting as the exclusive law enforcement of TNSE. Who the heck goes out of their way to enforce scalping laws these days? Apparently supply and demand economics are a foreign concept in Winnipeg. The only ones who did anything wrong here was TNSE for incorrectly reading the marketplace for tickets when determining their pricing. Now it looks like they are whining about it.

A black mark IMO on the return of the NHL to Winnipeg. For shame. :shakehead

Didn't season ticket purchasers sign and agreement indicating that they would not scalp tickets? If so, would you also say that signing a contract should not bind the parties signing it?
 

Fugu

Guest
Didn't season ticket purchasers sign and agreement indicating that they would not scalp tickets? If so, would you also say that signing a contract should not bind the parties signing it?


I think there are two key issues, obviously. If scalpers can charge exorbitant prices, it indicates that the issuing party (TNSE) left a lot of money on the table. It could be argued that they didn't want to make it a rich man's game in Winnipeg, but altruists are hard to find in the business world.

Of course, as you point out, a contractual agreement was entered into, and perhaps more importantly, business was able to get government to pass laws that disallow resales.

That said, what exactly is illegal about buying a product and then selling it at a profit. It is a market, and the products aren't illegal or otherwise controlled substances.
 

Silver

Registered User
Mar 23, 2002
5,058
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California
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Didn't season ticket purchasers sign and agreement indicating that they would not scalp tickets? If so, would you also say that signing a contract should not bind the parties signing it?

Sure, but you can make the argument that the Winnipeg Police shouldn't be acting as TNSE's contract enforcement agents.
 

Burningblades

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
651
0
C.C.S.M. c. A70

The Amusements Act

PART X

GENERAL

Scalping

60 No person shall sell, barter or exchange for anything any ticket of admission to a place of amusement for a price or consideration greater than that paid or given therefor to the owner of the place of amusement to which it is an admission.

Manitoba law, you are not allowed to scalp tickets for more then face value.

when you are breaking the law I think it is ok for the Police to get involved
 

ur almost right

Registered User
Mar 15, 2011
60
0
Winnipeg, MB
A serious over-look in all of this.

At what point is it "scalping"?

Not sure of all the practices of MOST of you're respective cities, but I'm aware of events that happen in MB, AB, and BC. (as I have lived in all).

A company, and I will link it if needed (though don't find it to be, as there have been MANY) has "auctioned off" some of their season tickets to Wpg Jets home opener.
The company paid, "insert amount here" for their season tickets, and decided to offer up a pair for an "open market", providing they made a donation to a local charity.

Said tickets went on to fetch $11,000+. Does "chairity" trump "scalping" ?

I LOVE the fact that people/companies are doing this; offering up tickets for those who didn't get any. But, those same tickets, sold for $11,000+.

Radio stations, online contests, in-store draws, and "$1-2-3 etc" raffles actually DO give the tickets out. The respective companies/individuals bought the tix, and choose to give them out "luck" style.

I think the whole "scalping" idea has to be looked at a little more. I DO NOT support the greasy guy under the bridge selling me a $100 ticket for $900, but in the same breath, "donating" $11grand seems JUST as bad. Thoughts?
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
I think there are two key issues, obviously. If scalpers can charge exorbitant prices, it indicates that the issuing party (TNSE) left a lot of money on the table. It could be argued that they didn't want to make it a rich man's game in Winnipeg, but altruists are hard to find in the business world.

Of course, as you point out, a contractual agreement was entered into, and perhaps more importantly, business was able to get government to pass laws that disallow resales.

That said, what exactly is illegal about buying a product and then selling it at a profit. It is a market, and the products aren't illegal or otherwise controlled substances.

Sure, but you can make the argument that the Winnipeg Police shouldn't be acting as TNSE's contract enforcement agents.

I am not commenting on how Winnipeg Police should spend their time.

I think that the very fact that TNSE controlled season ticket sales the way they did, and in effect licensed Season Ticket packages, suggests that they understood the demand. As a business, they also need to maintain a positive reputation in the community. They might have been able to sell out a few games this year charging $500 or more per ticket and earned a bit more money, but this would have alienated a lot of fans, including those who they hope to keep as fans even if they are not current STHs. They are in it for the long term and want to maintain their strong reputation while still charging top dollar.

Similarly, with an incredibly tight ticket supply they controlled sales and want to control resale to maintain a strong reputation with current and potential ticket-holders. Consider the reputational loss, for example, if a large percentage of Moose Season Ticket holders who were given preference for purchasing tickets decided to scalp their tickets. It would create substantial unrest in the market.

If STHs wanted to resell tickets for a huge profit, they should have known that TNSE was serious about closing this out. Nobody forced anyone to enter into the contractual agreement about the use of season tickets. Some will get caught by the police or TNSE and lose the privilege of holding season ticket packages.
 

Fugu

Guest
I am not commenting on how Winnipeg Police should spend their time.

I think that the very fact that TNSE controlled season ticket sales the way they did, and in effect licensed Season Ticket packages, suggests that they understood the demand. As a business, they also need to maintain a positive reputation in the community. They might have been able to sell out a few games this year charging $500 or more per ticket and earned a bit more money, but this would have alienated a lot of fans, including those who they hope to keep as fans even if they are not current STHs. They are in it for the long term and want to maintain their strong reputation while still charging top dollar.

The good will argument is a very valid and insightful point.

Similarly, with an incredibly tight ticket supply they controlled sales and want to control resale to maintain a strong reputation with current and potential ticket-holders. Consider the reputational loss, for example, if a large percentage of Moose Season Ticket holders who were given preference for purchasing tickets decided to scalp their tickets. It would create substantial unrest in the market.

I don't buy this argument from the point of view that one set of interests is being protected (the company's) versus another set (the market interested in a legal product at various price levels). You don't have to buy a $900 ticket. The scalper cannot sell a $900 ticket if no one will pay. They're actually the best barometer available of spot demand as they adjust on the fly, even selling under their cost if necessary to avoid taking a total loss. If you don't read the market demand that well, you won't survive as a scalper.

It could be argued that government is being used, by virtue of passing and enforcing these laws, to stifle commerce that individuals wish to pursue. You're free to re-sell your couch, have a garage sale, your car, bike, clothes. Why are tickets placed in a special category?



If STHs wanted to resell tickets for a huge profit, they should have known that TNSE was serious about closing this out. Nobody forced anyone to enter into the contractual agreement about the use of season tickets. Some will get caught by the police or TNSE and lose the privilege of holding season ticket packages.

Are you arguing that the law is pursuing breach of contract, or scalping (as many cities have these types of laws regardless of the STH agreement)?
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
Note that the Jets are planning on setting up a legal "scalping" exchange through the team website:

http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=73398

Winnipeg Jets Seat Exchange

Winnipeg Jets SeatExchange is coming soon. Please visit www.WinnipegJets.com/SeatExchange in the near future to be able to buy and sell individual game tickets for Winnipeg Jets home games.

I'm assuming that this will be similar to the Sharks Power Play Ticket Window and other team exchanges of that ilk.

For the Sharks, a STH can list their tickets for any price ( with a minimum of single game ticket price) - if sold, the Sharks/Ticketmaster keep 10% plus TicketBastard fees, and the STH is paid in an account credit, not cash.

It would be interesting to see if/how they work around the MB Scalping law.
 

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