Winnipeg Police arrest Scalpers (Jets Ticket Scalpers)

[Fugu]

That is what the division of the WPS is mandated to do..give the Morals Division a call. They will let you know what they spend their day doing.

It's apparent that they're using provincial resources to prevent its citizens from selling something they own at a higher price.

Why don't you tell me why companies in the entertainment sector can get laws passed and then resources provided to them to prevent this activity? Ford doesn't prevent people from scalping cars.

 

[Fugu]

I am.

If I sign a contract, I should honour the terms. Signing a contract which one does not intend to honour is immoral.

I always hit Accept when I download new software or its update.

I am not qualified as a lawyer, and thus have no idea what rights I just signed away by clicking Accept. However, I need the software to complete a task, and I cannot find another package that doesn't have a similar set up.

What is this world coming to when people who pay too much for sporting event tickets are called victims.

Yes, it's funny the hoops people will jump through to justify the existence of laws that limit people's freedom when nothing harmful is happening otherwise.

I'm in the Eastern time zone. Good night all.

 

[dobiezeke*]

It's apparent that they're using provincial resources to prevent its citizens from selling something they own at a higher price.

Why don't you tell me why companies in the entertainment sector can get laws passed and then resources provided to them to prevent this activity? Ford doesn't prevent people from scalping cars.

You are aware that this law existed in Manitoba long before the Jets came back.

 

[kdb209]

There is also the related issue of when an entity chooses not to maximize the price of a good, but serve some public good - case in point, campsite reservations at national parks.

It has gotten so that it has become virtually impossible to get a Summer campsite at a popular national park (Yosemite) without paying a significant markup to a scalper. Campsite reservations typically become available, IIRC, 4 months in advance. Campsite scalpers with bot nets typically grab them the moment they become available and sell the $20/night reservations for $60-$100+/night and sell free Half Dome hiking reservations for $50+. The National Park service tried to counter this be making reservations non-transferable and require the camper to show the credit card used to make the reservation - scalpers responded by getting credit card info from their customers in advance and using those cards to make the reservations.

I suppose there are those who would argue that Yosemite should just charge more for its admissions - it's leaving money on the table ...

... Coming soon, Half Dome, Presented by Amway.

 

[dobiezeke*]

I always hit Accept when I download new software or its update.

I am not qualified as a lawyer, and thus have no idea what rights I just signed away by clicking Accept. However, I need the software to complete a task, and I cannot find another package that doesn't have a similar set up.





Yes, it's funny the hoops people will jump through to justify the existence of laws that limit people's freedom when nothing harmful is happening otherwise.
I'm in the Eastern time zone. Good night all.

Good shot - it's funny how people will continue to come up with ridiculous responses to justify behavior that circumvents laws that are in place. See how easy that works?

 

[Whileee]

What is this world coming to when people who pay too much for sporting event tickets are called victims.

It's all rather subjective, though. If you want to see what a hockey fan who feels like a victim looks like, stare into the eyes of a rabid Jets fan who got shut out of the ST lottery. I don't think that they are "victims" in a true sense of the word, but I'm pretty sure that TNSE doesn't want them to feel victimized.

 

[Fugu]

You are aware that this law existed in Manitoba long before the Jets came back.

Speaking of irrelevant, that fits. I'm not trying to disparage TNSE. I'm disparaging the laws that protect victims who choose to pay for tickets above the price at which they were issued.

NOW I really have to go to sleep. You have a few hours to answer the questions I've asked you a few times that you keep evading.

 

[Fugu]

Good shot - it's funny how people will continue to come up with ridiculous responses to justify behavior that circumvents laws that are in place. See how easy that works?

The only think ridiculous in this thread is your continued attempts to derail the thread. Need some more bullets for shooting any more messengers?

 

[kdb209]

It's apparent that they're using provincial resources to prevent its citizens from selling something they own at a higher price.

Of course it could be argued that they are selling something they do not own - a franchise in Hamilton (sorry, wrong thread).

What you own when you buy a ticket is not a right to admittance, but a conditional license, subject to the terms and conditions of the issuer.

Now, whether that's an issue that should be left to enforcement by the private party or enforced by the state as a matter of public policy is a political question, not an economic one.

 

[dobiezeke*]

The only think ridiculous in this thread is your continued attempts to derail the thread. Need some more bullets for shooting any more messengers?

You have been shooting blanks throughout this thread...

When you can come back with your proposal the Manitoba government about their laws, let me know. I will support the rescinding of any law that states scalping is illegal. If you would have paid attention you would know that I support the elimination of this law.

Good night easterner.

 

[Fugu]

There is also the related issue of when an entity chooses not to maximize the price of a good, but serve some public good - case in point, campsite reservations at national parks.

It has gotten so that it has become virtually impossible to get a Summer campsite at a popular national park (Yosemite) without paying a significant markup to a scalper. Campsite reservations typically become available, IIRC, 4 months in advance. Campsite scalpers with bot nets typically grab them the moment they become available and sell the $20/night reservations for $60-$100+/night and sell free Half Dome hiking reservations for $50+. The National Park service tried to counter this be making reservations non-transferable and require the camper to show the credit card used to make the reservation - scalpers responded by getting credit card info from their customers in advance and using those cards to make the reservations.

I suppose there are those who would argue that Yosemite should just charge more for its admissions - it's leaving money on the table ...

Yosemite isn't a For Profit entity, but a national park. These were set up for a greater public good. TNSE's goodwill building is nevertheless a corporate strategy designed to maximize their opportunities and options. It's good for their business.

... Coming soon, Half Dome, Presented by Amway.

Ouch.

 

[Cawz]

This is the thing that bugs me though and is why I started the thread in the first place. What is so 'unethical' about selling tickets to entertainment at free market values? And why is there such a ridiculous law in the first place? If the prices were unreasonable as you say then people would not buy them, correct?

I just find the whole issue of 'morality' in this case ridiculous. Especially when we are talking about the NHL and money of all things.

The unethical thing is that you have an agreement. Some people think its ok to bypass that agreement to make a few bucks if its with a faceless multimillion dollar corporation that gouges you at every opportunity they get. Some dont, since its an agreement.

I wonder if the police would arrest people if they bought tickets under face value if a team sucked. The tickets would be sold for something other than the agreed upon amount.

 

[Whileee]

Of course it could be argued that they are selling something they do not own - a franchise in Hamilton (sorry, wrong thread).

What you own when you buy a ticket is not a right to admittance, but a conditional license, subject to the terms and conditions of the issuer.

This is getting close to the issue, I think. You don't actually purchase the seat, but rather the right to sit in that seat during a Jets game. That right is transferable under certain circumstances. The owner of that seat has the prerogative to determine the conditions under which the right to sit in that seat may be transferred to another party.

 

[dobiezeke*]

The only think ridiculous in this thread is your continued attempts to derail the thread. Need some more bullets for shooting any more messengers?

And the only thing ridiculous is your continued attempt to justify an action that has been deemed illegal.

 

[Fugu]

Of course it could be argued that they are selling something they do not own - a franchise in Hamilton (sorry, wrong thread).

What you own when you buy a ticket is not a right to admittance, but a conditional license, subject to the terms and conditions of the issuer.

Now, whether that's an issue that should be left to enforcement by the private party or enforced by the state as a matter of public policy is a political question, not an economic one.

Yes, but.... not all cities/states/provinces choose to bother enforcing these agreements. That doesn't mean the the issuer of the license couldn't bring forth a suit, the normal means by which contractual disputes are handled.


@dz. I managed to poke a few holes here and there, so obviously there was something in the old cannon.


Now I'm leaving.......

 

[Cawz]

It's all rather subjective, though. If you want to see what a hockey fan who feels like a victim looks like, stare into the eyes of a rabid Jets fan who got shut out of the ST lottery. I don't think that they are "victims" in a true sense of the word, but I'm pretty sure that TNSE doesn't want them to feel victimized.

Well, I dont see them as being victims when they simply pay too much to see something they never would have been able to see anyway.

 

[dobiezeke*]

Yes, but.... not all cities/states/provinces choose to bother enforcing these agreements. That doesn't mean the the issuer of the license couldn't bring forth a suit, the normal means by which contractual disputes are handled.


@dz. I managed to poke a few holes here and there, so obviously there was something in the old cannon.

Now I'm leaving.......

Peace out...we will talk again later

 

[Cawz]

There is also the related issue of when an entity chooses not to maximize the price of a good, but serve some public good - case in point, campsite reservations at national parks.

It has gotten so that it has become virtually impossible to get a Summer campsite at a popular national park (Yosemite) without paying a significant markup to a scalper. Campsite reservations typically become available, IIRC, 4 months in advance. Campsite scalpers with bot nets typically grab them the moment they become available and sell the $20/night reservations for $60-$100+/night and sell free Half Dome hiking reservations for $50+. The National Park service tried to counter this be making reservations non-transferable and require the camper to show the credit card used to make the reservation - scalpers responded by getting credit card info from their customers in advance and using those cards to make the reservations.

So customers give their credit card numbers in advance with the markup before they go on sale? They should just try to buy the tickets themselves.

 

[dobiezeke*]

So customers give their credit card numbers in advance with the markup before they go on sale? They should just try to buy the tickets themselves.

Kind of like Jets fans, huh. Oh wait, they sold out in 5 minutes.

 

[Cawz]

Kind of like Jets fans, huh. Oh wait, they sold out in 5 minutes.

They should have been 4 minutes faster.

I'm sure most here have been shut out of tickets for sporting events or concerts. You win some, you lose some. When you lose, you watch it on tv or pay extra to someone who won.

 

[Gnova]

The police don't have to throw a lot of resources at this.
If they nail a few people a month and turn the tickets into TNSE so that the seats can be removed from the STHs then the number of people not using the ticket exchange option will decrease dramatically. Most people won't risk their tickets for a few dollars because they will never get them again considering the waiting list size.

Currently the lotto waiting list for single game tickets is 70,000. Winners of the lotto can choose 2 tickets.
There are approx 300 pairs of tickets per game.
42x300=12,600
This means that 18% of people that weren't lucky enough to buy STs in the first few minutes have a chance to see ONE game this year.
This is why the thought of scalpers holding onto season tickets is a sour issue in Winnipeg ATM.

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

This is the thing that bugs me though and is why I started the thread in the first place. What is so 'unethical' about selling tickets to entertainment at free market values? And why is there such a ridiculous law in the first place? If the prices were unreasonable as you say then people would not buy them, correct?

I just find the whole issue of 'morality' in this case ridiculous. Especially when we are talking about the NHL and money of all things.

Because it makes it that much more unaffordable for joe blow who wants to go to these events. I totally support laws that stop these jerkoffs from buying up tickets just to sell them at a higher cost. It's sleazy is what it is. I hope more teams take away peoples season tickets if they catch people doing it whether it's illegal or not.

 

[cbcwpg]

The law in the Province of Manitoba says... "Thou shalt not scalp!"

If you don't agree with the law get the gov't to change it.

Until that happens... Book 'em Dano!

 

[Mungman]

Sorry, been out of range since this thread got going....

The law as it is written is dumb... it specifies something along the lines of you can't sell for a price greater than that paid to the provider. Now is that the price I paid for the ticket, or the price someone else paid for a similar ticket, or the price someone in the building paid regardless of whether it's in the price range I own (i.e. I own the cheep seat, can I sell it for the price of the glass seats)? Nowhere does the law say "face value". The STH agreement states you can sell for the price printed on the ticket, the price paid for the ticket, and also tips it hat to provincial legislation. WHICH IS IT MAN!!! That being said, I honestly don't see the Vice Squad (that is the proper name for them here (not Morals)) chasing you down for selling at face falue (that is a 55% markup for the home opener). I think the law is dumb, but with the socialists firmly in power (shakes fist at dirty socialists) for the next four years nothing will change.

The issue I have with this affair is that the Vice Squad turned the tickets over to TNSE, these tix are now evidence. The offense notice issued would not have had a fine associated with it as there is not a fixed fine assigned in provincial regulations for the Amusements Act, so the offender will have to appear in court. They are at this point still innocent, i want to know the justification for ratting them out to TNSE by some bak channel. This will at some point become part of the public court record, that is how TNSE should find out about this matter IMO.

 

[Killion]

If you want to see what a hockey fan who feels like a victim looks like, stare into the eyes of a rabid Jets fan who got shut out of the ST lottery.

Ah, sorry Whileee, but I think the Leafs fans in Toronto can lay claim to that particular form of neurotropical delights from the Lyssavirus genus family. Pupils the size of pancakes pressed against the glass. Apoplexy, paralysis, anxiety, insomnia, confusion, agitation, paranoia, hallucinations, delirium...