Winnipeg Police arrest Scalpers (Jets Ticket Scalpers)

[El Duderino]

MOD

OP, your thread's title is ridiculous and is only a detriment to whatever it is you are arguing.

 

[dobiezeke*]

The good will argument is a very valid and insightful point.



I don't buy this argument from the point of view that one set of interests is being protected (the company's) versus another set (the market interested in a legal product at various price levels). You don't have to buy a $900 ticket. The scalper cannot sell a $900 ticket if no one will pay. They're actually the best barometer available of spot demand as they adjust on the fly, even selling under their cost if necessary to avoid taking a total loss. If you don't read the market demand that well, you won't survive as a scalper.

It could be argued that government is being used, by virtue of passing and enforcing these laws, to stifle commerce that individuals wish to pursue. You're free to re-sell your couch, have a garage sale, your car, bike, clothes. Why are tickets placed in a special category?




Are you arguing that the law is pursing breach of contract, or scalping (as many cities have these types of laws regardless of the STH agreement)?

And that is the crux of the matter - several other jurisdication have eliminated this law...is the government in the position to ensure that businesses earn the maximum value for their product or are they babysitting the public to make sure they aren`t taken advantage of.

 

[Huffer]

Note that the Jets are planning on setting up a legal "scalping" exchange through the team website:

http://jets.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=73398



I'm assuming that this will be similar to the Sharks Power Play Ticket Window and other team exchanges of that ilk.

For the Sharks, a STH can list their tickets for any price ( with a minimum of single game ticket price) - if sold, the Sharks/Ticketmaster keep 10% plus TicketBastard fees, and the STH is paid in an account credit, not cash.

It would be interesting to see if/how they work around the MB Scalping law.

Ticket holders will only be able to sell them at face value on Ticket Exchange.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Scalping is perfectly legal...as long as it's not on the premesis of the event.
This is a dick move by TNSE, sticking it to the fans. Tut, tut.

well maybe it is legal where you are, but in manitoba it is illegal, as quoted earlier in this thread

 

[kurt]

You'd think police officers have better things to do. I don't know about Winnipeg specifically, but in BC (whether it's RCMP or city police, depending on the city) officers sometimes take over an hour to respond to calls, if they respond at all.

 

[kdb209]

Ticket holders will only be able to sell them at face value on Ticket Exchange.

Have STH been given the full details about TicketExchange?

STH face value price or Box Office Single Game price (assuming there is some STH discount)?

Do you know how much of a cut the Jets/Ticketmaster will take (in addition to the ticket fees)?

Will they pay the STH in cash or just account credit?

 

[Fehr Time*]

And that is the crux of the matter - several other jurisdication have eliminated this law...is the government in the position to ensure that businesses earn the maximum value for their product or are they babysitting the public to make sure they aren`t taken advantage of.

Yeah, that was my sentiment on this issue. To me this is big business in bed with government here and phony capitalism. It was reported on the Oiler board that on an Edmonton radio station it was pointed out that 600 STH got pinched in this. So it was not just a one off here or there. It seemed like a pretty big sting.

I can appreciate that TNSE may want to maintain a good reputation in the city by not being seen as total gougers and trying to keep tickets 'affordable' for people, as mentioned by another poster. However devils advocate may suggest that ticket prices now are too high for some fans to afford already. I think that this is more about TNSE being upset that they misread the marketplace and that others are capitalizing on their mistake.

 

[dobiezeke*]

Yeah, that was my sentiment on this issue. To me this is big business in bed with government here and phony capitalism. It was reported on the Oiler board that on an Edmonton radio station it was pointed out that 600 STH got pinched in this. So it was not just a one off here or there. It seemed like a pretty big sting.

I can appreciate that TNSE may want to maintain a good reputation in the city by not being seen as total gougers and trying to keep tickets 'affordable' for people, as mentioned by another poster. However devils advocate may suggest that ticket prices now are too high for some fans to afford already. I think that this is more about TNSE being upset that they misread the marketplace and that others are capitalizing on their mistake.

Based on your posts I realize you have no idea what the situation is...TSNE does not police the actions of the public nor do they create the laws of the province of Manitoba.

Your ignorance is amusing however...thanks.

 

[Fugu]

well maybe it is legal where you are, but in manitoba it is illegal, as quoted earlier in this thread

Some of us have asked why it's illegal. Who is being harmed? If you want to pay 2x face value for a ticket because that is the only way you can attend a game, and someone is willing to sell it to you, what is the harm?

 

[dobiezeke*]

Some of us have asked why it's illegal. Who is being harmed? If you want to pay 2x face value for a ticket because that is the only way you can attend a game, and someone is willing to sell it to you, what is the harm?

Talk to those that make the law. Questioning the law is pointless. Complaining about the law is a waste of time unless you are proactive in changing it. Not sure why you opened this thread, but that is the perogative of being a moderator.

 

[Fugu]

Talk to those that make the law. Questioning the law is pointless. Complaining about the law is a waste of time unless you are proactive in changing it. Not sure why you opened this thread, but that is the perogative of being a moderator.

Excuse me? Questioning the law is pointless? It's not a law everywhere. It's arbitrary, apparently.

Why don't you answer the question about the basis for these types of laws instead of discussing moderating.


And to answer your question, no site rules were broken in asking the question. There is no basis for closing the thread other than to be arbitrary or to shut down discussion on a topic that readers of the BOHB find interesting. It's not supposed to be pep rally.

 

[Fehr Time*]

Talk to those that make the law. Questioning the law is pointless. Complaining about the law is a waste of time unless you are proactive in changing it. Not sure why you opened this thread, but that is the perogative of being a moderator.

With all do respect, questioning laws is part of living in an open society though. If a law does not have a good reason for existing then it should not be IMO.

To me this situation is like policing a garage sale or something and making sure nobody pays more than the sticker price on an item. If someone wants to pay more why not let them? Conversely, if demand is low people may pay less for an item than you wanted. Supply and demand.

 

[Killion]

Some of us have asked why it's illegal. Who is being harmed? If you want to pay 2x face value for a ticket because that is the only way you can attend a game, and someone is willing to sell it to you, what is the harm?

IMO none. Craigslists Ticket section in Winnipeg has over a 1000 listings for Jets tickets from "Dealers". Where are they getting their inventory?. Obviously from STH's. The more popular the incoming team, the more the STH receives over & above face value, the broker in turns sells it for as much as possible which in a hockey mad sold out situation like a Winnipeg, Toronto or Vancouver isnt very difficult.

Sure the cops can & do bust scalpers outside of the buildings on game day/night from time-time, however, most of these ticket brokers have it all dialed in, inventory sold days/weeks prior to the game/event. The Canucks, Oilers, Flames & Jets can complain & rail about it all they want but theres really not a whole lot they can do about it short of taking a real run at these "Dealers" or "Ticket Brokers" as they call themselves...

Its illegal in BC, Alberta & Manitoba, consumer protection & all that jive, but like the Volstad act, its just created criminals of everyone & anyone who might sell their ST's to their cousin Harry for a game; or someone who buys ST's & then off-loads 10, 20 games to a Ticket Broker, recouping the face value on all 41 games & prolly making a few bucks in the process. Underground. Black market.

 

[dobiezeke*]

Excuse me? Questioning the law is pointless? It's not a law everywhere. It's arbitrary, apparently. Why don't you answer the question about the basis for these types of laws instead of discussing moderating.


And to answer your question, no site rules were broken in asking the question. There is no basis for closing the thread other than to be arbitrary or to shut down discussion on a topic that readers of the BOHB find interesting. It's not supposed to be pep rally.

It`s the law in Manitoba - it`s not arbitrary. That is case closed on the validity of the actions of WPS. MOD

 

[kdb209]

Oh, and Fehr, you are making a mountain out of a mole hill and condoning illegal acts.

Actually, scalping is actually legal in most jurisdictions - subject to restrictions in state and local law.

In California, scalping is legal except on the premises of the venue. You can't scalp at the Tank, but you can right accross the street(*).

(*) However you can't sell anything on the street in San Jose without a Peddlers License. The cops used to bust scalpers under the Peddling ordinance - now the regular scalpers have just paid the annual fees and gone through the required background checks and now all display a SJ Peddlers Permit on lanyards around their necks.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-r-0761.htm

STATE-BY-STATE CAPSULE SUMMARIES

Alabama

• Requires ticket scalpers to pay a $ 100 license tax (Ala. Code § 40-12-167)

Arizona

• Allows a ticket purchased for resale to be sold if the sale occurs more than 200 feet from an event (Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 13-3718)

Arkansas

• Prohibits scalping tickets to collegiate or high school sporting events or any charitable event

• Prohibits scalping tickets to musical events but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge (Ark. Stat. § 5-63-201)

California

• Allows tickets purchased for resale to be sold but prohibits reselling on the grounds of an event except with permission (Cal. Penal Code § 346)

Connecticut

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge up to $ 3 (CGS § 53-289)

Delaware

• Generally allows scalping, but prohibits it on the day preceding and the day of (1) events held at the Bob Carpenter Center of the University of Delaware and (2) NASCAR races held at Dover Downs (Del. Code § 913)

Florida

• Allows resellers to charge $ 1 more than face value of tickets (1) for passage or accommodations on common carriers, (2) to multi-day or multi-event tickets to a park or entertainment complex, or (3) sold through an Internet website that does not meet statutory criteria

• Allows tickets sold through an Internet website that meets the following criteria to resell tickets without price limits

o Website must be authorized by original seller

o Must guarantee full refund if the event is cancelled, the purchaser is denied admission through no fault of his own, or the ticket is not delivered in the way the purchaser requests and this results in an inability to attend the event

o Website must disclose its guarantees and that it is not the original issuer, seller, or reseller and does not control the pricing

• Explicitly states that it does not authorize reselling tickets on the property where an event is taking place (Fla. Stat. § 817. 36)

Georgia

• Requires ticket resellers to be registered

• Prohibits anyone other than a registered ticket broker from selling a ticket for more than face value plus $ 3 service charge, unless the event sponsor authorizes a higher amount

• Authorizes an event sponsor to restrict purchaser's ability to resell a ticket

• Sets standards for registered ticket brokers, including (1) maintaining a permanent office in-state, (2) paying a $ 500 annual registration fee, and (3) disclosing its refund policy

• Allows brokers to sell tickets at their permanent offices or through the Internet

• Prohibits ticket brokers from (1) hiring employees to buy tickets to future events, (2) acquiring more than 1% of the tickets to any event

• Establishes other requirements, including ticket refund if event is cancelled

• Prohibits reselling within 1,500 feet of venues with a seating capacity under 15,000 and within 2,700 feet of larger venues

• Allows original purchasers of tickets for personal use to resell for any price except within the 1,500 foot or 2,700 foot buffer zones

• Allows charities to resell tickets as a fundraising activity without registering or being subject to price limits

• Allows event sponsors to permit ticket reselling within the buffer zones (Ga. Code §§ 43-4B-25 to 43-4B-31)

Hawaii

• Prohibits scalping tickets to boxing matches (Haw. Rev. Stat. § 440-17)

Illinois

• Allows ticket resale by registered ticket brokers, Internet auction houses, and Internet websites

• Prohibits an event sponsor from restricting purchaser's ability to resell a ticket if the reseller is registered

• Sets standards for registered ticket brokers, including (1) maintaining a permanent office in-state, (2) paying $ 100 annual registration fee, and (3) disclosing their refund policy

• Broker's principal business must be reselling tickets

• Must maintain $ 100,000 cash account in Illinois available to satisfy valid consumer complaints

• Brokers can meet statutory consumer protection requirements, including the requirement to keep a cash account, by belonging to an association that is specifically dedicated to meeting them

• Prohibits a broker from selling tickets “near the facilityâ€

• Internet auction houses and Internet websites must meet substantially similar requirements, except that auction sites must also register as auction houses and both types of sites must adopt an independent and disinterested dispute resolution procedure to settle disputes between ticket resellers and purchasers (720 ILCS §§ 375/. 01 to 375/4)

Indiana

• Prohibits scalping tickets to boxing matches (Ind. Code § 25-9-1-26

Kentucky

• Prohibits ticket scalping without authorization of the original seller (Ky. Rev. Stat. § 518. 070)

Louisiana

• Prohibits ticket scalping except through the Internet

• Allows tickets sold through an Internet website that meets the following criteria to resell tickets without price limits

o Website must be authorized by original seller and venue

o Must guarantee full refund if the event is cancelled, the purchaser is denied admission through no fault of his own, or the ticket is not delivered as promised and this results in an inability to attend the event

o Website must disclose its guarantees (La. Rev. Stat. § 4: 1)

Maryland

• Prohibits boxing, wrestling, and kickboxing promoters from allowing the sale of tickets for more than the admission price (Md. Code § 43-318)

Massachusetts

• Requires a license to resell tickets to state-licensed entertainment and athletic events

• Allows resellers to impose reasonable service charges (Mass. Gen. Laws Ch. 140 §§185A to 185G)

Michigan

• Prohibits ticket scalping

• Apparently prohibits season ticket holders and other ticket package purchasers from selling their tickets. Specifically, the law states that the purchaser may not sell his ticket if (1) the original ticket seller sells tickets under restrictive conditions at a lower rate than general admission, (2) the purchaser's name appears on the ticket or is registered in the seller's office as the ticket holder, and (3) the ticket states that it is not transferable and sold only to the named purchaser (Mich. Comp. Laws § 750. 465)

Minnesota

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a service charge (Minn. Stat. § 609. 805)

Mississippi

• Prohibits scalping tickets to collegiate athletic events and to any event held on state property (Miss. Code Ann. § 97-23-97)

Missouri

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a service charge (Mo. Rev. Stat. § 578. 395)

New Jersey

• Requires anyone engaged in the business of ticket reselling to register

• Sets standards for registered ticket brokers, including (1) maintaining a permanent office in-state, (2) paying an annual registration fee that may be as much as $ 500, and (3) disclosing its refund policy

• Prohibits using “diggers,†or people temporarily hired to secure tickets by intimidating purchasers waiting in line to buy tickets

• Requires brokers to disclose when they are employing “try and get,†which is accepting a ticket order before possessing the tickets

• Must file a $ 10,000 bond conditioned on the promise that the broker and employees will not be guilty of fraud, extortion, or violation of the ticket broker law

• Limits the amount above face value that someone who is not a registered ticket broker or season ticket holder may charge to the greater of $ 3 or 20% of face value

• Limits the amount above face value that someone who is a registered ticket broker or season ticket holder to 50% above the amount paid for the ticket

• Prohibits reselling tickets in the vicinity of an event except in designated areas

• Prohibits giving anything valuable to an event employee to obtain tickets

• Prohibits original sellers from holding back more than 5% of the tickets

• Requires the licensing agency and event sponsors to create a way for season ticket and other ticket holders to legally sell their tickets back to the venue (N. J. Rev. Stat. §§ 56: 8-26 to 56: 8-38)

New Mexico

• Prohibits scalping tickets to collegiate sporting events but allows resellers to impose a service charge (N. M. Stat. Ann. § 30-46-1)

New York

• Requires ticket resellers to be licensed by locality in which it operates and to post a bond conditioned that the reseller will not be guilty of fraud, extortion, or violation of the ticket broker law

• Sets maximum reselling price of the face value of the ticket plus 45% if the venue seats more than 6,000 or the face value plus 20% if the venue is smaller

• Allows resellers to add a reasonable service charge

• Allows operators of venues to manage Internet websites to resell tickets within the maximum reselling price

• Requires resellers, or anyone that facilitates reselling, to guarantee that it will refund the amount paid by a purchaser if the event is cancelled, the purchaser is denied admission through no fault of his own, or the ticket does not conform to its advertised description

• Requires resellers to post a $ 25,000 bond conditioned on the promise that the agency will not be guilty of fraud, extortion, or violation of the ticket reselling law

• Prohibits reselling tickets within 1,500 feet of a venue seating more than 5,000, but allows operators to designate reselling areas within that zone

• Prohibits anyone from paying a venue employee a commission, gratuity, or bonus in connection with the sale of tickets

• Exempts charities that use the profits wholly for their charitable purposes (N. Y Arts & Cult. Aff. § 25. 01 to 25. 35)

North Carolina

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge up to $ 3 (N. C. Gen. Stat. § 14-344)

Ohio

• Authorizes municipalities to regulate (Ohio Rev. Code § 715. 48)

Rhode Island

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge up to the greater of $ 3 or 10% of its face value (R. I. Gen Law § 5-22-26)

South Carolina

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge of up to $ 1 (S. C. Code Ann. § 16-17-710)

Virginia

• Authorizes localities to prohibit ticket scalping, except by religious or charitable organizations engaged in fundraising (Va. Code Ann. § 15. 2-969)

Wisconsin

• Prohibits scalping tickets to the state fair (Wis. Stat. § 42. 07)

 

[Hawker14]

"Hey, I'm selling an old pair of socks for $2,000 and as a bonus I'll throw in a couple Jets tickets for tonight's game ..."

 

[Clown Baby*]

Some of us have asked why it's illegal. Who is being harmed? If you want to pay 2x face value for a ticket because that is the only way you can attend a game, and someone is willing to sell it to you, what is the harm?

There's no "harm" per say, but I'm plenty ****ing annoyed with scalpers.

I have a job. This job prevents me from stalking the internet, waiting for playoff games, the Stanley Cup Finals, Olympic games, World Junior games, etc. Instead, some jobless shmuck with no affiliation to the organization dictates which games I can and can't go to all because of a little luck.

It happened when the Stanley Cup Finals happened in Phialdelphia. I entered a lottery to get the tickets, but my name never came up. You can sure as **** bet, though, there were tickets being sold on share points for well above face value.

If that face value were well above my budget, and the balance was going towards the organization, and the hardworking people hosting the event, that's fine. What's not fine is another middle man making a healthy dime for doing literally nothing. **** those people.

 

[Fugu]

There's no "harm" per say, but I'm plenty ****ing annoyed with scalpers.

I have a job. This job prevents me from stalking the internet, waiting for playoff games, the Stanley Cup Finals, Olympic games, World Junior games, etc. Instead, some jobless shmuck with no affiliation to the organization dictates which games I can and can't go to all because of a little luck.

It happened when the Stanley Cup Finals happened in Phialdelphia. I entered a lottery to get the tickets, but my name never came up. You can sure as **** bet, though, there were tickets being sold on share points for well above face value.

If that face value were well above my budget, and the balance was going towards the organization, and the hardworking people hosting the event, that's fine. What's not fine is another middle man making a healthy dime for doing literally nothing. **** those people.

That's fine. No one would begrudge your right to hold this opinion.

Ultimately though, if no one is willing to do business with scalpers, there wouldn't be scalpers.

You've introduced a third point, that being bulk buyers. The team can control how to allot tickets, and put limits on the number to any one buyer. They do have 'some' control to keep this type of manipulation of demand out of the system.

 

[Fugu]

This is the only warning some of you will get.

Do not play moderator. If you want to be one, send us an email at [email protected].


If you're interested in the topic of a thread, you may post here. If you have nothing to add to the discussion about said topic--- move on to a thread more to your liking.

I'm tired of all the derailing attempts here.

 

[Burningblades]

The big problem is that organizations with better internet connections and such are able to buy out tickets before the general public really has much chance at getting them, then raise the price and resell them. They do not want these kinds of middle men to exist as they add nothing of real value.

To Fugu's point of paying x2 the price being only way to get tickets the hope of this law is you could get the tickets for their face value and not x2 the price.

 

[dobiezeke*]

That's fine. No one would begrudge your right to hold this opinion.

Ultimately though, if no one is willing to do business with scalpers, there wouldn't be scalpers.
You've introduced a third point, that being bulk buyers. The team can control how to allot tickets, and put limits on the number to any one buyer. They do have 'some' control to keep this type of manipulation of demand out of the system.

And if no one was willing to do business with prostitutes, there wouldn`t be prostitutes...

TSNE is active with WPS to ensure that the people of Manitoba are able to watch NHL hockey at the price that has been set by TSNE - they have the law supporting their actions. Until the law is rescinded or eliminated, TSNE will support WPS Morals Division monitoring the scalping of tickets for the Jets.

 

[ur almost right]

so, I'll play along.

When is "supply/demand" ok?

Sorry, when is "supply/demand" ok, and what is included in that?

Can I sell a 4 litre jug of milk to people for $20.00? I know there is a demand, and I know the supply is short... Granted, there is a law stating that I CAN NOT sell the 4 litre jug for over it's set price. AND, there is a way to get the same 4 litre jug for the actual $5 cost. But because most/some of my friends can't get it for $5, the $20 charge is cool?

I mean, people don't "need" it, some people actually can't have it. But some people want it, so... charging them $20 should be okay, right?

The milk producers are making their money, and all the costs are covered... so why can't I make $15 off of the people who want milk?

 

[roccerfeller]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2011/10/07/mb-ticket-scalping-winnipeg.html

Can you believe this nonsense? Apparently the police in Winnipeg are now acting as the exclusive law enforcement of TNSE. Who the heck goes out of their way to enforce scalping laws these days? Apparently supply and demand economics are a foreign concept in Winnipeg. The only ones who did anything wrong here was TNSE for incorrectly reading the marketplace for tickets when determining their pricing. Now it looks like they are whining about it.

A black mark IMO on the return of the NHL to Winnipeg. For shame.

FYI, what is interestingly omitted from the article (maybe the reporter didn't know?) was that this guy was promising lower bowl, centre ice tickets for $1500...just for the home opener alone!!


... and they were fake tickets.



also, scalping is illegal in case you weren't aware. Anything but a black mark...it would have been a black mark had they been sold!

edit: no link up yet that I could find, but this was from a very direct source so maybe media hasn't reported it yet

edit 2: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...rged-for-scalping-Jets-tickets-131336739.html

 

[jamwires]

The big problem is that organizations with better internet connections and such are able to buy out tickets before the general public really has much chance at getting them, then raise the price and resell them. They do not want these kinds of middle men to exist as they add nothing of real value.

To Fugu's point of paying x2 the price being only way to get tickets the hope of this law is you could get the tickets for their face value and not x2 the price.

Better internet connections?

Anyone who really wanted tickets (and I mean really wanted tickets), should have been doing research well beforehand. For example, the day before tickets went on sale, there were rumours circulating on the Jetsowner forums, and here - what sections were mostly sold out. This made me completely re-think my section of choice.

By the day the ticket drive began, I had figured out P6 was my best chance at getting tickets. Out of the three guys in my group, we all got through, with two of us then backing out of ticketmaster at the last second, whie the first guy through completed the transaction.

You bet your ass I also researched where I could get the fastest internet connection, and I went there with my laptop an hour beforehand and set up shop. I did my homework, because it was important to me.

Whining about companies having "fast internet connections," is kinda laughable.

PS - Scalpers deserve to get arrested. It's against the law. That's the bottom line, MOD

 

[dobiezeke*]

Better internet connections?

Anyone who really wanted tickets (and I mean really wanted tickets), should have been doing research well beforehand. For example, the day before tickets went on sale, there were rumours circulating on the Jetsowner forums, and here - what sections were mostly sold out. This made me completely re-think my section of choice.

By the day the ticket drive began, I had figured out P6 was my best chance at getting tickets. Out of the three guys in my group, we all got through, with two of us then backing out of ticketmaster at the last second, whie the first guy through completed the transaction.

You bet your ass I also researched where I could get the fastest internet connection, and I went there with my laptop an hour beforehand and set up shop. I did my homework, because it was important to me.

Whining about companies having "fast internet connections," is kinda laughable.

What do you want for your Oilers tickets