Confirmed with Link: Wings claim Christian Djoos from ANA

[MBH]

Nope he has to be on the 23 man roster, or risk losing him back to Anaheim if he put back on waivers.

That's what I thought.
Man the fans on Reddit and Twitter are a bunch of sheep.
How many "Taxi Squad"posts did I see.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah,
Agree and disagree.

I think he's got OK IQ in the Dzone.
I think he's just timid. He doesn't compete hard enough on the wall or in front of the net. That's his Dzone problems, IMO, along with traditional young D-man problems.

On offense, I think the Wings are probably in his head. Maybe he doesn't have the mental toughness to deal with Blashill's bullshit.
But he's constantly playing like a low-confidence young defenseman.
We've seen it with Ericsson, Kindl, FIscher, etc etc.

Maybe at some point the low-confidence young defensemen were just bad picks. If you don't have the mental toughness to deal with Jeff Blashill, you're not going to be a very good f***ing hockey player.

Being timid just means you suck. As a defenseman in your own end... you can't be bad on the wall and in front of the net. That's your whole responsibility. Dennis Cholowski does not deserve NHL minutes if his own skill is that he can adequately pass the puck in the offensive end if he's got time and space. Literally every NHL player can make a pass if he's got time and space.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

No squeezing the jooooos!

But yeah, aren’t we going to have a logjam on D? Or add ons for the taxi squad

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Nobody is down on Lashoff, he understands his role which is basically emergency callup if enough players get injured. Also holds the fort down in GR. He's been solid for the team over the years, and gets compensated well for an AHLer ($275k).

Seriously though, do you expect anyone to get excited about a bunch of players that can clear waivers? That's how you wind up in last place, filling your roster with AHL players. Oh yeah, we've already been there....

I love Lashoff, personally

knows his role and doesn’t whine and complain that he’s not on the Wings squad

 

[MBH]

Maybe at some point the low-confidence young defensemen were just bad picks. If you don't have the mental toughness to deal with Jeff Blashill, you're not going to be a very good f***ing hockey player.

Being timid just means you suck. As a defenseman in your own end... you can't be bad on the wall and in front of the net. That's your whole responsibility. Dennis Cholowski does not deserve NHL minutes if his own skill is that he can adequately pass the puck in the offensive end if he's got time and space. Literally every NHL player can make a pass if he's got time and space.

I am under no illusion that Cholowski was good.
I do think he has the potential to be better.

I also think the bottom-of-the-barrel defensemen Yzerman brought in aren't really any better. So I don't know the wings wouldn't work on Cholowski.

 

[jaster]

Maybe he doesn't have the mental toughness to deal with Blashill's bullshit.

Oh jeez, this old argument. Stop. Who the hell is Blashill? He's no Torts. He's no Keenan. And really, he's no Babcock. If you don't have the mental fortitude to handle an average coach like Blashill, you definitely don't have the mental fortitude to do what it takes to survive in the NHL. Kid's problems are his own and no one else's.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

"You can cite data all you want, but the fact is my opinion is fact!"
Priceless.

"Dickless Lidstrom" was afraid to touch guys for years - but he was elite offensively.
If Cholo was producing points like Bowey did, our fanbase would overlook his defensive shittiness the way they do with Hronek.

But he's not. Cholowski's problem is, again, on the offensive side of things, his supposed strength, his numbers are closer to Biega and Ericsson than Hronek or Bowey.
I agree with you that Cholowski would be well served by being engaged and physical as Hronek. Being engaged and physical can help you improve your defense. And to the average fan, sitting at home, it's a sign that at least they're doing something.

I've seen enough from Cholo on the PP at the NHL level to understand he's got NHL offense in his game.
Over 2 seasons he leads this team in goals/60 and points/60 among blueliners on the PP.

1) "Dickless Lidstrom"? What the f***? He didn't take the body because his stickwork was immaculate. He broke up plays by being in the right spot and poke-checking the puck away. I mean, just what? Nicklas Lidstrom wasn't Scott Stevens or Vladimir Konstantinov, of course, but that's also why he played a ludicrous amount of minutes in a ludicrous amount of games. There is being timid and your play suffering because of it and there is not running around hitting everything, getting out of position and getting burned. And even then, Lidstrom didn't shy away from contact, he just didn't seek it out. Like, this is just such a f***ing ridiculous point to bring up in a discussion about Cholowski. Yes, if he produced points like Nicklas Lidstrom, nobody would care if he never hit a soul.

2) No, Cholowski's problem is that he's overall bad at hockey right now. He is abysmal defensively and he is lackluster offensively. I wouldn't care if he avoided physicality, because a lot of times, bad players get a lot of daps for "trying hard" when the trying hard is them getting into the wrong place. Cholowski's skill is supposed to be high hockey IQ and PMD skill. Work smarter, not harder. So I want him to work smarter, not harder.

3) If a defenseman CAN'T pass the puck around on the PP, I'd really worry about them being an NHL player. To me, being able to make a tape to tape pass on the cycle in the offensive zone on the power play is a f***ing baseline skill. If you can't do that, you probably shouldn't be in the NHL. I mean, his counting stats of PP points and goals are f***ing terrible. 13 points in 82 games on the power play in his career (with average of 2:30 a night on the PP, usually with some pretty good players). Like just because he's better than some of the other slapnuts they've had out there doesn't mean he's even passable.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I am under no illusion that Cholowski was good.
I do think he has the potential to be better.

I also think the bottom-of-the-barrel defensemen Yzerman brought in aren't really any better. So I don't know the wings wouldn't work on Cholowski.

Because he's really bad and just giving him ice time to get beat up along the sidewall and in front of the net will do nothing to make him a better hockey player? Cholowski is a turnstile and he will become better by you putting him in situations where he can possibly be successful. That isn't continuing to toss him out in places where he has failed because, hey, he might not fail this time. Cholowski can't be babied. If he can't hack it as a bottom pairing guy in Detroit, send him down to GR so he can start working as a top pairing guy there and refine his game in big minutes away from the spotlight.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

No squeezing the jooooos!

But yeah, aren’t we going to have a logjam on D? Or add ons for the taxi squad

It's not a logjam if they're all garbage. Waive Staal, waive Djoos, waive Cholowski, waive Lashoff, Hicketts, Biega... If the Wings are overloaded, they can lose 5-6 D men at the drop of a hat without much loss.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

I love Lashoff, personally

knows his role and doesn’t whine and complain that he’s not on the Wings squad

Ideal AHLer with an ideal attitude. Was somewhat hoping Abdelkader would have taken a similar role

 

[kliq]

It's not a logjam if they're all garbage. Waive Staal, waive Djoos, waive Cholowski, waive Lashoff, Hicketts, Biega... If the Wings are overloaded, they can lose 5-6 D men at the drop of a hat without much loss.

Cholowski is waiver exempt, there is no need to waive him. I'm sure Lashoff, Hicketts, and Biega will all be waived and placed on the taxi squad.

 

[Oddbob]

Because he isn't a good hockey player.

If we aren't playing a guy, it's because he isn't good. We're a really really bad team that could use any good player we can find, so if we had players who were good hockey players we would be playing them.

Also, it's complete lunacy to just assume you're "developing" a young player if you gift wrap him minutes. If Cholo can't keep up with the speed of the game with his hockey IQ right now... it's not gonna get better by tossing him out there to be outmatched. You develop your players by being able to get them into spots where they can actually learn. Where you have a base of solid players who know what they are doing, even if they're not fantastic, so you can get the Hroneks, Raymonds and Seiders of the world to build and build and build with making the safe and consistent play. If you have a papier-mache defense and your goalie can't save a beach ball (19-20 Detroit Red Wings style), your young players aren't going to improve. It is reps of competitive hockey than you need. If you're losing games 4-1, 5-1, 6-2, etc. That's not doing anything for the guys on your roster besides teaching them the humility that they're not that good.

You guys are way over-doing how "bad" he has been. Hasn't been any worse to the eye test than any of are other defenders, minus Nemeth and Hronek. A young defender who gets thrown out there with Bowey, Daley and Biega is likely going to fail almost every time. When Cholo has gotten shifts with Hronek for example I actually think he looked quite good. I'm not saying Cholo is anything special, and I am a little disappointed in his offence in the AHL last year, that said, I want him to get a chance with a real defenceman as a partner, not guys who shouldn't be out there.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

You guys are way over-doing how "bad" he has been. Hasn't been any worse to the eye test than any of are other defenders, minus Nemeth and Hronek. A young defender who gets thrown out there with Bowey, Daley and Biega is likely going to fail almost every time. When Cholo has gotten shifts with Hronek for example I actually think he looked quite good. I'm not saying Cholo is anything special, and I am a little disappointed in his offence in the AHL last year, that said, I want him to get a chance with a real defenceman as a partner, not guys who shouldn't be out there.

I see your point, however rookie Lindstrom had to endure the same washed up players/AHL tweeners as partners & he managed to look competent. Maybe it's because they play 2 different styles & a lot more is expected out of Cholo b/c of draft pedigree.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You guys are way over-doing how "bad" he has been. Hasn't been any worse to the eye test than any of are other defenders, minus Nemeth and Hronek. A young defender who gets thrown out there with Bowey, Daley and Biega is likely going to fail almost every time. When Cholo has gotten shifts with Hronek for example I actually think he looked quite good. I'm not saying Cholo is anything special, and I am a little disappointed in his offence in the AHL last year, that said, I want him to get a chance with a real defenceman as a partner, not guys who shouldn't be out there.

He will get that by being at the AHL level.

I mean, Hronek still needs a “real partner” too. Hronek is far superior offensively, but he has massive defensive struggles also.

The Wings have a bunch of young guys who require hand-holding, but not many guys who can hold the hands of the young players. Cholowski should be stapled to the top pairing in GR and be playing in all situations there with good players. That is what his role should be, not a garbage man picking up whatever scraps he can at ES and hopefully doing something on the PP

But seriously, people need to get off this “he’s not any worse than these players who we know are dogshit” as a defense. He’s also not been any better. He’s performing at close to the same level which is “getting beat like a drum”.

He earns a chance to play with a “real partner” by performing in training camp and working on his game at GR and in practice to where he consistently shows better than those other guys. It’s not a high f***ing bar to be a better NHL player than Alex Biega or Madison Bowey if you belong in the league.

 

[Oddbob]

I see your point, however rookie Lindstrom had to endure the same washed up players/AHL tweeners as partners & he managed to look competent. Maybe it's because they play 2 different styles & a lot more is expected out of Cholo b/c of draft pedigree.

Really, I thought Lindstrom looked quite bad out there.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Really, I thought Lindstrom looked quite bad out there.

Last year? He looked fine, Mick was raving about him. Part of that I'm sure was to offer the fans something positive, but most of it seemed genuine. Mickey isn't the type to dish out complements.

 

[jaster]

Lindstrom was solid last year. For a young rookie, he was unusually calm and effective under pressure in his own zone. You don't see kids consistently handle forechecks as well as he did. Made solid outlet passes. In that facet, he looked like a vet. And that kinda aspect to your game is something you can build on. He's not flashy. Not a great skater, not going to provide any real offense, needs some work in front of his own net... I understand why some people thought he was bad. But he showed high-floor fundamentals. I hope to see more of him this season.

 

[RedMenace]

I really don't get all the Cholowski hate, but what the f*** do I know; I'm wrong about everything apparently, so f*** it.

 

[MBH]

Oh jeez, this old argument. Stop. Who the hell is Blashill? He's no Torts. He's no Keenan. And really, he's no Babcock. If you don't have the mental fortitude to handle an average coach like Blashill, you definitely don't have the mental fortitude to do what it takes to survive in the NHL. Kid's problems are his own and no one else's.

And I never said Blash was any better or worse than any other coach - only that Cholo might not be handling the coaching. I called it bullshit - because I think Blash is full of shit.
The Wings have asked him to focus on playing defense and focus on engaging physically.
Sometimes, telling players to play a certain way doesn't help them.

 

[MBH]

Lindstrom was solid last year. For a young rookie, he was unusually calm and effective under pressure in his own zone. You don't see kids consistently handle forechecks as well as he did. Made solid outlet passes. In that facet, he looked like a vet. And that kinda aspect to your game is something you can build on. He's not flashy. Not a great skater, not going to provide any real offense, needs some work in front of his own net... I understand why some people thought he was bad. But he showed high-floor fundamentals. I hope to see more of him this season.

Lindstrom
Most even-strength minutes on the team without a point.
2.07 shots/60 - lowest on the D. Next lowest was 3.44
Minor penalties/60= 1.81 second to McIlrath
Giveaways - lowest (best) on the team 1.56/60
Hits- 3.89/60. 5th on the D, a bit more than Mike Green.
Shots blocked: 3.63/60- 3rd on the team
CF%- 44/58 - 7th on the D
Goals against/60- 2.07 - lowest on the team
Goals for/60 - .52 - lowest on the team.
Zone Starts = Sheltered

*Note: Lindstrom played 29 minutes with Howard vs 230 with Bernier, so his GA/60 is going to be better relative to his team.
Lindstrom's top partner - Trevor Daley.
Lindstrom's top 3 forward teammates - Larkin, Filppula, Fabbri

Only thing that stood out to me about Lindstrom's game was he was willing to be physical on the boards.
Reminds me of Marchenko, but not as good.

 

[MBH]

He will get that by being at the AHL level.

I mean, Hronek still needs a “real partner” too. Hronek is far superior offensively, but he has massive defensive struggles also.

The Wings have a bunch of young guys who require hand-holding, but not many guys who can hold the hands of the young players. Cholowski should be stapled to the top pairing in GR and be playing in all situations there with good players. That is what his role should be, not a garbage man picking up whatever scraps he can at ES and hopefully doing something on the PP

But seriously, people need to get off this “he’s not any worse than these players who we know are dogshit” as a defense. He’s also not been any better. He’s performing at close to the same level which is “getting beat like a drum”.

He earns a chance to play with a “real partner” by performing in training camp and working on his game at GR and in practice to where he consistently shows better than those other guys. It’s not a high f***ing bar to be a better NHL player than Alex Biega or Madison Bowey if you belong in the league.

Cholowski Rankings on the Wings Defense
9 defense played 200 minutes or more.
CF% 47.91 - 2nd.
GF% 30.0 - 5th
GF/60 - 1.53 - 5th
GA/60 - 3.58 - 5th
Goals/60 - 0.1 - 4th
Assists/60- 0.-2 - 7th
Points/60 - .31 6th
Shots/60 4.39 - 3rd
Rebounds created/60 - .51 - 3rd
Minor penalties/60 - .31 - 9th
Penalties drawn - .31 - 5th
Giveaways/60 - 1.84 - 7th (3rd best)
Takeaways/60 - .31 - 7th
Hits/60 - 1.53 - 2nd
Hits taken/60 - 3.98/60 4th lowest

Mostly, Cholowski looks very middle of the road on last year's defense.
Blashill may have had reasons for playing Daley, Ericsson or Biega over Cholowski - but those reasons don't seem evident in the data.

 

[Oddbob]

Last year? He looked fine, Mick was raving about him. Part of that I'm sure was to offer the fans something positive, but most of it seemed genuine. Mickey isn't the type to dish out complements.

He was -6 in 16 GP playing low minutes, and he barely played in front of Jimmy Howard. Most of his games he got to play with Bernier in goal, and he was still pretty bad. I didn't see an NHL defenceman when I saw him, and he definitely wasn't any better than Cholowski.

 

[pz29]

I see your Gin 'n Djoos & raise you: Juice 'N Cider / Djoos & Seider.


"The Juice passes to the Goose (Lindstrom)"


ok, I'll stop myself.

To continue with the Seinfeld references, "I like what you have done there." (Dr. Van Nosteren from the clinic).

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Cholowski Rankings on the Wings Defense
9 defense played 200 minutes or more.
CF% 47.91 - 2nd.
GF% 30.0 - 5th
GF/60 - 1.53 - 5th
GA/60 - 3.58 - 5th
Goals/60 - 0.1 - 4th
Assists/60- 0.-2 - 7th
Points/60 - .31 6th
Shots/60 4.39 - 3rd
Rebounds created/60 - .51 - 3rd
Minor penalties/60 - .31 - 9th
Penalties drawn - .31 - 5th
Giveaways/60 - 1.84 - 7th (3rd best)
Takeaways/60 - .31 - 7th
Hits/60 - 1.53 - 2nd
Hits taken/60 - 3.98/60 4th lowest

Mostly, Cholowski looks very middle of the road on last year's defense.
Blashill may have had reasons for playing Daley, Ericsson or Biega over Cholowski - but those reasons don't seem evident in the data.

These aren't good numbers, like at all. Being middle of the road compared to the worst defense of the decade? That still means you are incredibly bad. They sent him down and stopped playing him entirely.

The reasons won't appear evident in the data when you just normalize everything to per 60 stats and ignore the fact that they stopped playing him almost entirely once December hit. Cholowski was bad and had he played more than 36 games last year, his rate numbers would have looked worse than they do now.

per60 stats are helpful. They provide context in some situations. However, they're also incredibly misleading if you use them the wrong way. Dennis Cholowski was terrible in 19-20 for the Red Wings, which is why they stopped running him out there 19 mins a night in early December.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

To continue with the Seinfeld references, "I like what you have done there." (Dr. Van Nosteren from the clinic).

Thanks for that, I needed it. When laughter & endorphins are in order (they almost always are), we can always count on Seinfeld.

Website with quotes from each episode & season:

- The Package

Kramer: Yes, I'm Dr. van Nostrand from the clinic. I need Elaine Benes's chart; she's a patient of mine and she's not going to make it. It's, uh, very bad, very messy.
Nurse: I see. And what clinic is that again?
Kramer: Uh, that's correct.
Nurse: Excuse me?
Kramer: From the Hoffermanndale Clinic, in Belgium.
Nurse: Really?
Kramer: The Netherlands?