Confirmed with Link: Wings claim Christian Djoos from ANA

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Jul 6, 2012
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I really don't get all the Cholowski hate, but what the f*** do I know; I'm wrong about everything apparently, so f*** it. :dunno:

It's not hate, at least from me. Just acknowledgement that today he is not a high level NHL player and it doesn't make sense to gift him time if he can't demonstrably show in practice and training camp that he is better than Djoos, Staal or Biega. He shouldn't get minutes at the NHL level just because he's in his early 20s.
 
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Pavels Dog

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It's not hate, at least from me. Just acknowledgement that today he is not a high level NHL player and it doesn't make sense to gift him time if he can't demonstrably show in practice and training camp that he is better than Djoos, Staal or Biega. He shouldn't get minutes at the NHL level just because he's in his early 20s.
Agreed.. the reason he won a job 2 seasons ago is that he outperformed a lot of other D. He was great in prospects tournament, development camp, training camp, preseason.. he deserved that shot.
Since that hot start it just doesn't seem like he has found his game again though.
 

FabricDetails

I know enough to know I know nothing
Mar 30, 2009
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1) "Dickless Lidstrom"? What the f***?

I only know of the days when Wings fans called him that (during his first few seasons) because of older family members. Definitely did not age well but nothing like that ever does.
 

RedMenace

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It's not hate, at least from me. Just acknowledgement that today he is not a high level NHL player and it doesn't make sense to gift him time if he can't demonstrably show in practice and training camp that he is better than Djoos, Staal or Biega. He shouldn't get minutes at the NHL level just because he's in his early 20s.

Oh no, I'm not saying he should be gifted minutes, but people seem to throw the words "terrible" and "trash" and "not NHL caliber," which to me is a bit harsh. He's shown flashes of very solid-to-good play, and I think he just needs a bit more confidence in his game.

For example, I thought he looked pretty damned good last night. He's not as physical as Staal, but I have to think he's markedly better overall as an NHL defenseman.
 
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Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Guessing the reason Cholo & Hirose looked slightly better last night vs. last season is because:

1. a lack of fear of getting hit by opposition

2.most players aren't upto 100% yet & certainly not going 100% if they are

Once the season starts, they'll have to engage physically & also take hits. One is timid, the other isn't really built for the rigors of it & not fast enough to overcompensate for his shortcomings, pun intended.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Oh no, I'm not saying he should be gifted minutes, but people seem to throw the words "terrible" and "trash" and "not NHL caliber," which to me is a bit harsh. He's shown flashes of very solid-to-good play, and I think he just needs a bit more confidence in his game.

For example, I thought he looked pretty damned good last night. He's not as physical ass Staal, but I have to think he's markedly better overall as an NHL defenseman.

I mean, part of the “trash” and “worthless” is just overreaction to wanting to plop him in a top 4 slot just because “he can still be good and a guy like Christian Djoos is a bum ass loser who will never improve”. And or to quantify that a player with his current stats is not a good NHL player and if he wasn’t 22 or whatever, he would be tossed aside. Guys have to perform. You don’t get unlimited chances and a perfect scenario for your development without you showing something. Like with AA or Cholo or Jurco or whoever... the team isn’t going to structure themselves around what is best for this one individual player. If they’re going to give a young D man the best veteran to ride along with him, it’s Hronek who has shown far more than adequate NHL skill and just lacks the refinement and experience to patch up his game.

Hronek has flashed top end offensive skill, not just flashes of “yeah, he’s an NHL D”. I would strongly support Cholowski in a top pairing role in GR to get all situations experience and then if you give him a shot after he proves out something, put him top pairing or very heavily PP. He is three years into the league now... he’s gotta start showing something in practice or otherwise to distance himself from the Biegas of the world.
 

Gniwder

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Guessing the reason Cholo & Hirose looked slightly better last night vs. last season is because:

1. a lack of fear of getting hit by opposition

2.most players aren't upto 100% yet & certainly not going 100% if they are

Once the season starts, they'll have to engage physically & also take hits. One is timid, the other isn't really built for the rigors of it & not fast enough to overcompensate for his shortcomings, pun intended.
Exactly, they both look good against soft and slow teams. Everyone says Cholo had some good games last season, and he did, but it was against teams like LA. They both get creamed by fast younger teams.

They are both players that will look good in practice and pre-season. Blash fell for it 2 seasons in a row, hopefully he's a bit smarter this time and sends Cholo to GR, but with Blash you never know. Dude really commits to his mistakes.
 

Gniwder

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FWIW, I also want to point out that the reason why Djoos played for the Caps in their Cup season was because Nate Schmidt got picked in the expansion draft. Let's keep in mind that he lost his roster spot to Nick Jensen.

... and Cholo is trash, lol. I'll bet anyone he never plays a full season in the NHL, and will be in Europe or out of hockey within 5 years. Loser changes his username to "ButtKraken" for a minimum of one season. Don't bother arguing with me unless you're willing to take the bet.
 

jaster

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Jun 8, 2007
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And I never said Blash was any better or worse than any other coach - only that Cholo might not be handling the coaching. I called it bullshit - because I think Blash is full of shit.
The Wings have asked him to focus on playing defense and focus on engaging physically.
Sometimes, telling players to play a certain way doesn't help them.

I was comparing Blashill in terms of how difficult it is to play for him, not in terms of how good a coach he is. But regardless, the argument that a young player is ruined by the ineptitude of a coach has been trotted out on this board and many others countless times. And while I will grant that it has happened, it is not nearly as common as fans seem to want to believe. Sometimes these kids just don't meet the lofty expectations that fans want to put on them because they are simply not as good as people hoped. And no amount of "proper" development is going to save them from that inevitability. Not every 1st round pick can be a top-6 forward or top-4 defensemen. As you know, a majority are not. But it's like some people just can't bring themselves to say "shit, he wasn't as good as I hoped," and instead prefer to blame the whipping boy/coach.
 

jaster

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Lindstrom
Most even-strength minutes on the team without a point.
2.07 shots/60 - lowest on the D. Next lowest was 3.44
Minor penalties/60= 1.81 second to McIlrath
Giveaways - lowest (best) on the team 1.56/60
Hits- 3.89/60. 5th on the D, a bit more than Mike Green.
Shots blocked: 3.63/60- 3rd on the team
CF%- 44/58 - 7th on the D
Goals against/60- 2.07 - lowest on the team
Goals for/60 - .52 - lowest on the team.
Zone Starts = Sheltered

*Note: Lindstrom played 29 minutes with Howard vs 230 with Bernier, so his GA/60 is going to be better relative to his team.
Lindstrom's top partner - Trevor Daley.
Lindstrom's top 3 forward teammates - Larkin, Filppula, Fabbri

Meh, it's a 16 game sample size. Eyeball test means more to me at this point. The low giveaway number matches up though.


Only thing that stood out to me about Lindstrom's game was he was willing to be physical on the boards.
Reminds me of Marchenko, but not as good.

Well, I pointed out what should have stood out most, and I think it's too bad a lot of people missed that.

Your Marchenko comp is a good one though. Neither guy is flashy, neither are all that quick, and neither really provide any offense in the O-zone. But they both have that reliability factor in their own zone, both take good angles, both are calm under pressure, and both give a boost to zone exit metrics based on their good outlet passes. Lindstrom's overall defensive game probably needs to come up one notch to match that of Marchenko, but with some more games under his belt, no reason Lindstrom can't get there.

Whether Lindstrom's NHL career exceeds that of Marchenko, I don't know, we'll see. Won't surprise me either way though.
 

MBH

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Meh, it's a 16 game sample size. Eyeball test means more to me at this point. The low giveaway number matches up though.




Well, I pointed out what should have stood out most, and I think it's too bad a lot of people missed that.

Your Marchenko comp is a good one though. Neither guy is flashy, neither are all that quick, and neither really provide any offense in the O-zone. But they both have that reliability factor in their own zone, both take good angles, both are calm under pressure, and both give a boost to zone exit metrics based on their good outlet passes. Lindstrom's overall defensive game probably needs to come up one notch to match that of Marchenko, but with some more games under his belt, no reason Lindstrom can't get there.

Whether Lindstrom's NHL career exceeds that of Marchenko, I don't know, we'll see. Won't surprise me either way though.

Marchenko won battles.
He played the defensive zone shifts, won battles and kept the other team from scoring.
Not sure Lindstrom, despite some bite, has that sort of ruggedness.

I really would love the stat trackers to start tracking board battles.
 

RedMenace

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I mean, part of the “trash” and “worthless” is just overreaction to wanting to plop him in a top 4 slot just because “he can still be good and a guy like Christian Djoos is a bum ass loser who will never improve”. And or to quantify that a player with his current stats is not a good NHL player and if he wasn’t 22 or whatever, he would be tossed aside. Guys have to perform. You don’t get unlimited chances and a perfect scenario for your development without you showing something. Like with AA or Cholo or Jurco or whoever... the team isn’t going to structure themselves around what is best for this one individual player. If they’re going to give a young D man the best veteran to ride along with him, it’s Hronek who has shown far more than adequate NHL skill and just lacks the refinement and experience to patch up his game.

Hronek has flashed top end offensive skill, not just flashes of “yeah, he’s an NHL D”. I would strongly support Cholowski in a top pairing role in GR to get all situations experience and then if you give him a shot after he proves out something, put him top pairing or very heavily PP. He is three years into the league now... he’s gotta start showing something in practice or otherwise to distance himself from the Biegas of the world.

No, again, I completely agree. But remember when he started his first session with the Wings? He was good, right? Then he fell off a bit and went to GR, and Hronek came up.

So what happened? Did getting sent to GR destroy whatever confidence he had at the start of the season? Was it a mistake to start him with the Wings in the first place?

I mean, it's all conjecture at this point, because it is what it is. I just don't take as quite a pessimistic view of his play as others, I suppose.

Anyway, enough of that, how's the Djoos coming along? Ready to be on ice yet?
 

Henkka

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And I never said Blash was any better or worse than any other coach - only that Cholo might not be handling the coaching. I called it bullshit - because I think Blash is full of shit.

It's a problem called Doug Houda, not Blashill, if there's a coaching problem. He has orchestrated that masterful defence for seasons now.

Or, how Kronwall was special-mentoring Cholowski at Griffins. Didn't see a difference after that. That points me to believe that problem could be Dennis himself.

Either way, after Seider comes, we don't have to cry after Cholowski anymore. If he rebounds, fine, but we are not building around him.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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FWIW, I also want to point out that the reason why Djoos played for the Caps in their Cup season was because Nate Schmidt got picked in the expansion draft. Let's keep in mind that he lost his roster spot to Nick Jensen.

... and Cholo is trash, lol. I'll bet anyone he never plays a full season in the NHL, and will be in Europe or out of hockey within 5 years. Loser changes his username to "ButtKraken" for a minimum of one season. Don't bother arguing with me unless you're willing to take the bet.
Though your debate/question/bet wasn't aimed at me, has anyone ever accepted the #"ButtKraken" challenge?

Also, 5 years? Elon Musk will have 1/2 of what's left of Earth's population colonizing Mars & exoplanets in the outer rim (Star Wars reference) by then. Now that the U.S. Congress is required to disclose UFO/Alien life files within 180 days, they're on the clock, so the aliens will just start showing up more & more. Prior to mandatory disclosure, they appeared, but kept to themselves mostly, at the behest of world govt's, dating back to the 1950's.

I was a member of the USAF, SSO-Space Systems Operations in the early/mid 90's, before there was ever a "Space Force", it was an arm of the USAF. If you think 2020 was crazy, buckle up.
 
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Henkka

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Are these numbers adjusted for competition and ice time? I mean, I look at these guys and I see them being the 5th or 6th D on their teams and I remember how competent being on the third pair made guys like Lebda and Lilja look...until they got more ice time and bigger roles.

The truth is that we've added a bunch of third pairing D to this team who are now going to likely be getting some more minutes, some heavier responsibility, with less help from their teammates than they got in their previous situation and likely playing a system that doesn't exactly embrace the idea of shutting things down and limiting chances (maybe Blashill will finally adjust that, but I doubt it).

IT still is that maybe we have added three 3rd pair guys, but it also still is, that only one has to play at 2nd pair. One has to win the competition and then defence is fine. DeKeyser-Hronek in 1st pair, Nemeth + somebody at 2nd pair. Think it will be Stecher, he has handled toughest assignments (shut-down pair duties at 1st pair) mostly with Edler in the past. Merrill-Djoos on 3rd pair.

The key is that Ericsson-Daley-Cholowski-Bowey -mess is gone. All were bad defensive players. Three legit guys DeKeyser, Hronek, Nemeth are left. Then add partners for them.

Average Ice-times from last 2 seasons:

Hronek, 22:16
Nemeth, 22:02
DeKeyser, 21:59
Merrill, 18:00
Stecher, 17:46
Djoos, 14:40 (played 22:12 at ANA so there's some)

That's kind of normal minute distribution.

Think the usage goes like this:

Defensive Zone faceoff:
Nemeth - Stecher
Nemeth had huge load at last season in these, and is good on those situations, to force the puck out from the zone. We don't have to sacrifise Hronek there, and Stecher can come out with the puck. Nemeth can just clear.

Offensive Zone faceoff
Djoos - Merrill
This is how Djoos becomes a key addition. We would not have offensive player to Offensive Zone faceoff, other than Hronek. He gives another option, the sheltered one.

Hybrid Top pair (plays on both situations)
DeKeyser - Hronek

Plays on PP
1. Hronek
2. Djoos (this kid played 2:38 min PP at Anaheim, when Cam Fowler was injured. Was slotted straight to his role)

Plays on PK
1. DeKeyser - Nemeth
2. Merril - Stecher/(Hronek as spare option, if Defenceman causes the PK)

It slots pretty well, imo. If Marc Staal is at Top6, I don't know who goes to PP as another option. DeKeyser? Don't like that.
 
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jaster

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Though your debate/question/bet wasn't aimed at me, has anyone ever accepted the #"ButtKraken" challenge?

Also, 5 years? Elon Musk will have 1/2 of what's left of Earth's population colonizing Mars & exoplanets in the outer rim (Star Wars reference) by then. Now that the U.S. Congress is required to disclose UFO/Alien life files within 180 days, they're on the clock, so the aliens will just start showing up more & more. Prior to mandatory disclosure, they appeared, but kept to themselves mostly, at the behest of world govt's, dating back to the 1950's.

I was a member of the USAF, SSO-Space Systems Operations in the early/mid 90's, before there was ever a "Space Force", it was an arm of the USAF. If you think 2020 was crazy, buckle up.

Got to wear your PJs to work, eh?
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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IT still is that maybe we have added three 3rd pair guys, but it also still is, that only one has to play at 2nd pair. One has to win the competition and then defence is fine. DeKeyser-Hronek in 1st pair, Nemeth + somebody at 2nd pair. Think it will be Stecher, he has handled toughest assignments (shut-down pair duties at 1st pair) mostly with Edler in the past. Merrill-Djoos on 3rd pair.

The key is that Ericsson-Daley-Cholowski-Bowey -mess is gone. All were bad defensive players. Three legit guys DeKeyser, Hronek, Nemeth are left. Then add partners for them.

Average Ice-times from last 2 seasons:

Hronek, 22:16
Nemeth, 22:02
DeKeyser, 21:59
Merrill, 18:00
Stecher, 17:46
Djoos, 14:40 (played 22:12 at ANA so there's some)

That's kind of normal minute distribution.

Think the usage goes like this:

Defensive Zone faceoff:
Nemeth - Stecher
Nemeth had huge load at last season in these, and is good on those situations, to force the puck out from the zone. We don't have to sacrifise Hronek there, and Stecher can come out with the puck. Nemeth can just clear.

Offensive Zone faceoff
Merrill - Djoos
This is how Djoos becomes a key addition. We would not have offensive player to Offensive Zone faceoff, other than Hronek. He gives another option, the sheltered one.

Hybrid Top pair (plays on both situations)
DeKeyser - Hronek

Plays on PP
1. Hronek
2. Djoos (this kid played 2:38 min PP at Anaheim, when Cam Fowler was injured. Was slotted straight to his role)

Plays on PK
1. DeKeyser - Nemeth
2. Merril - Stecher/(Hronek as spare option, if Defenceman causes the PK)

It slots pretty well, imo. If Marc Staal is at Top6, I don't know who goes to PP as another option. DeKeyser? Don't like that.
I like all of this. What 5on5 are your pairings? Where do you see Lindstrom?
 

jaster

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Yes sir. Dark blue flight suits (slightly darker than NASA's), no ironing necessary, just hang it in the bathrooms & let the steam do it's job.

Oh that's right, they used to be dark blue. I was in a little after you and by then they had switched to the standard green flight suits, or at least most of AFSPC had. When I was in officer training I'd occasionally do some light recruiting at high schools. They always had me wear a flight suit (you know, to make the Air Force more attractive to the kids lol). Eventually I ran across that flight suit a couple years ago, grew a proper mustache, purchased the appropriate patches, and went as Goose for Halloween. So, thanks Air Force.
 
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Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Oh that's right, they used to be dark blue. I was in a little after you and by then they had switched to the standard green flight suits, or at least most of AFSPC had. When I was in officer training I'd occasionally do some light recruiting at high schools. They always had me wear a flight suit (you know, to make the Air Force more attractive to the kids lol). Eventually I ran across that flight suit a couple years ago, grew a proper mustache, purchased the appropriate patches, and went as Goose for Halloween. So, thanks Air Force.
You can't go wrong with a F-15 copilot named Goose for a halloween costume, even if he is a squid. I fulfilled my need for speed with 5 sportbikes since 1990. Though I'd like to get my pilots license one day (bucket list sorta thing) & fly a Mig-29 (rent, buy if possible).
 

jaster

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You can't go wrong with a F-15 copilot named Goose for a halloween costume, even if he is a squid. I fulfilled my need for speed with 5 sportbikes since 1990. Though I'd like to get my pilots license one day (bucket list sorta thing) & fly a Mig-29 (rent, buy if possible).

Dream big or go home, eh? Love it. It's been many years since I've ripped through the sky at Mach 1 and pulling 8 Gs, but I would get up there and do it again in a heartbeat. So let me know if you ever get that Fulcrum, because...

4tfzp7.jpg


(not an actual photo of jaster)
 
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Gniwder

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Though your debate/question/bet wasn't aimed at me, has anyone ever accepted the #"ButtKraken" challenge?
No, everyone likes to spout their opinion as fact, but when challenged with a bet, everyone backs down.


Now that the U.S. Congress is required to disclose UFO/Alien life files within 180 days, they're on the clock, so the aliens will just start showing up more & more. Prior to mandatory disclosure, they appeared, but kept to themselves mostly, at the behest of world govt's, dating back to the 1950's.
Might as well let aliens have the planet before we destroy it anyways.
 

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