Will Patrick Marleau break Gordie Howe's record?

[kaiser matias]

Howe chose to leave the NHL, if he didn't he'd be miles ahead of Marleau today. I love Mr. Hockey (who doesn't?), but nah not disrespectful in the least to pass him in NHL games played.

Howe was retired for 2 years before he went to the WHA. Had he not done that he wouldn't have played the final season, and would have ended with 1687 games, and not the record.

 

[Grandpa]

If it's a made up record stolen from a legend, then wouldn't that make it meaningless from the beginning since it's a made up record?

Crying just to cry.

Is this some sort of witty banter that should prove something?

It's going to be in the history books and he will be the new record holder. But the way he got there doesn't promote true sportmanship.

He'll get there being barely a player. If it he was late bloomer Patrick Marleau but otherwise same player, he wouldn't be around anymore. That's really nice of him being healthy and everything through his very good career. It's going to take a while before opportunity like this arises ever again and it's nice to see some of the old records being broken. But this ain't chasing Gretzky's goals. This is just sticking around.

I know this sounds pretty harsh to some of you. Man had some serious longetivity and that's damn impressive. But it's artificial, at very last steps he'll be given the record. Just like Brett Favre going down for Michael Strahan's 22,5. sack.

 

[Doctor No]

He'll get there being barely a player.

How(e) was Gordie's final NHL season, again?

(Yes, he "made" the All-Star Game.)

 

[jetsforever]

Guess it depends on how long the season is and if he stays healthy

 

[weastern bias]

This is literally the opposite of an artificial record

We're talking about a player who was good enough to break into the league as an 18 year old, and who was still good enough to pot double-digit goals as a 40 year old, who never missed any significant stretch of time due to injuries in all that time, played 10 or more playoff games in 9 different seasons, and still has a chance to break the regular season games played record after missing a season and a half of potential play due to labor stoppages

Artificial is like when the Sedin twins extended their iron man streaks by playing one shift in a meaningless regular season game, Patrick Marleau has been deemed a good enough player to be iced by NHL rosters for the last 23 years and has played in the vast majority of his teams' games

I think some posters are getting their panties in a bunch because their myopic mindsets can't separate the ideas that playing the most games and being an all-time great player are two vastly different things, but playing that many games for that long is still a big accomplishment; no one claims that Marc Recchi, Shane Doan or Matt Cullen are amongst the 20 most important, or best, or whatever criteria you want players ever, but they are amongst the top 20 in games played because they literally played that many games, which is in and of itself a huge feat

It doesn't mean that Patrick Marleau will be remembered as one of the best to ever do it like Gordie Howe is, but it is still an incredible feat that we may not see surpassed for a generation or more

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I'm sorry... are people in this conversation insinuating that Marleau is the one who got to tack on meaningless games because of his legacy?


... people are aware that Howe played NHL games when he was 52, correct?


Also I'm just going to say it, it's way more impressive to have longevity in this era than it was before. If you're a liability on the ice, slow, or lack skills in all the fundamental areas you will not last.


I'm not saying hockey was easy in 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. In fact I'll say it's impressive that Howe played in so many different eras of style. But in all of those time periods you could absolutely remain a prolific and rostered hockey player while having insane deficiencies. The 70s in particular was a time where if you knew the "tricks" you could get away with a lot and mask a lot of areas in your game. By all accounts that I've read of Howe, he was first and foremost a guy who would take every advantage he could get (even illegal ones) and was excellent at concealing it.


Again I'm not diminishing his obvious GOAT status. I'm just saying, in 2020 you're going to be exposed very quickly if you've aged, in 1979 you were not.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Howe was retired for 2 years before he went to the WHA. Had he not done that he wouldn't have played the final season, and would have ended with 1687 games, and not the record.

Correct and when he felt like returning to hockey if he choose the NHL his record would be much larger. Should Ovechkin stop at 893 goals because Gretzky's a legend?

 

[Video Nasty]

I can see why some are dismissing this upcoming accomplishment.

They're the same people who only get turned on by the elite players missing half their careers.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I'm sorry... are people in this conversation insinuating that Marleau is the one who got to tack on meaningless games because of his legacy?


... people are aware that Howe played NHL games when he was 52, correct?


Also I'm just going to say it, it's way more impressive to have longevity in this era than it was before. If you're a liability on the ice, slow, or lack skills in all the fundamental areas you will not last.


I'm not saying hockey was easy in 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. In fact I'll say it's impressive that Howe played in so many different eras of style. But in all of those time periods you could absolutely remain a prolific and rostered hockey player while having insane deficiencies. The 70s in particular was a time where if you knew the "tricks" you could get away with a lot and mask a lot of areas in your game. By all accounts that I've read of Howe, he was first and foremost a guy who would take every advantage he could get (even illegal ones) and was excellent at concealing it.


Again I'm not diminishing his obvious GOAT status. I'm just saying, in 2020 you're going to be exposed very quickly if you've aged, in 1979 you were not.

Marleau isn’t Howe. It would make sense to complain about double standards if they were on the same level. But they’re just not.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

Marleau isn’t Howe. It would make sense to complain about double standards if they were on the same level. But they’re just not.

The record isn't related to the ceiling of talent though, it's longevity, people are conflating the two issues.


No one is saying Marleau is comparable to Howe as a player.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The record isn't related to the ceiling of talent though, it's longevity, people are conflating the two issues.


No one is saying Marleau is comparable to Howe as a player.

Not really. It feels like they’re signing him for the purpose of this record. No other reason. It’s not happening naturally and it’s not an articulation of durability if this is how it happens. Doing it this way is cheap.

I’d also say, much of what makes a record significant is the person that holds the record. For several decades, Joe DiMaggio holds the hit streak record and almost everyone knows this because it’s connected to Joe DiMaggio . For several decades, the record for consecutive games with a HR was held by Dale Long and barely any one knew because it was Dale Long.

If Marleau gets this record, and especially this way, it will be cheapened.

 

[matt trick]

One other thing, spending 2/3rds of my life rooting on Marleau it actually has given me a greater appreciation for Howe’s excellence. Having missed out of the Howe/Gretzky/Orr years bums we out. To see how hard Marleau has had to be for so long to potentially break the record helps me (but will never fully get me to the point) of appreciation how Godly Howe was. Playing in the NHL at 52 is stupid ridiculous.

Are the folks who are angry in this thread the same people who got to appreciate Howe in his prime? Legitimately curious.

 

[Doctor No]

I’d also say, much of what makes a record significant is the person that holds the record. For several decades, Joe DiMaggio holds the hit streak record and almost everyone knows this . For several decades, the record for consecutive games with a HR was held by Dale Long and barely any one knew because it was Dale Long.

If Marleau gets this record, and especially this way, it will be cheapened.

If you only care about a record because you've heard of the player and think that they're independently good, then maybe records aren't for you to begin with.

Matt Hackett, Patrick Lalime, and Jeff Reese all hold meaningful goaltender records. None of them are diminished because the record-holders happened to have the NHL careers of Matt Hackett, Patrick Lalime, and Jeff Reese.

(Bonus points to whomever knows which record each holds.)

Patrick Marleau has had an excellent career in the NHL. If he plays until he's 52, then maybe the record will be cheapen...oh, wait.

 

[John Mandalorian]

If you only care about a record because you've heard of the player and think that they're independently good, then maybe records aren't for you to begin with.

Matt Hackett, Patrick Lalime, and Jeff Reese all hold meaningful goaltender records. None of them are diminished because the record-holders happened to have the NHL careers of Matt Hackett, Patrick Lalime, and Jeff Reese.

(Bonus points to whomever knows which record each holds.)

Patrick Marleau has had an excellent career in the NHL. If he plays until he's 52, then maybe the record will be cheapen...oh, wait.

It’s just reality. And it’s worth pointing out that if too many of a sports records are held by obscure people, it the records seem like they’re a result of randomness or luck more than skill.

 

[robertmac43]

This one seems simple to me, yes he will.

 

[weastern bias]

Not really. It feels like they’re signing him for the purpose of this record. No other reason. It’s not happening naturally and it’s not an articulation of durability if this is how it happens. Doing it this way is cheap.

If Marleau gets this record, and especially this way, it will be cheapened.

If this is what you think is happening then you don't actually understand the situation

The Sharks didn't sign Marleau so that he can break a record

The Sharks signed Marleau because they have terrible forward depth and he will legitimately be one of the 8 best wingers on their roster and draw in every night on the basis of his abilities

If that results in him breaking the record then he will break it naturally, nothing forced or artificial going on here

 

[John Mandalorian]

If this is what you think is happening then you don't actually understand the situation

The Sharks didn't sign Marleau so that he can break a record

The Sharks signed Marleau because they have terrible forward depth and he will legitimately be one of the 8 best wingers on their roster and draw in every night on the basis of his abilities

If that results in him breaking the record then he will break it naturally, nothing forced or artificial going on here

Im not buying it that they couldn’t have done better with someone younger.

Sorry but in this market, when salaries are suppressed, the only reason for them to sign a 40 something player is to break a record and manufacture some buzz from it.

 

[Doctor No]

No offense, but you seem to have come into this discussion with some predisposed skepticism regarding Marleau.

And "it's just reality" doesn't work as an actual explanation.

 

[weastern bias]

Im not buying it that they couldn’t have done better with someone younger.

Sorry but in this market, when salaries are suppressed, the only reason for them to sign a 40 something player is to break a record and manufacture some buzz from it.

So you made your mind up before you engaged in discourse

No where to go from here, believe what you want to believe

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'm sorry... are people in this conversation insinuating that Marleau is the one who got to tack on meaningless games because of his legacy?


... people are aware that Howe played NHL games when he was 52, correct?


Also I'm just going to say it, it's way more impressive to have longevity in this era than it was before. If you're a liability on the ice, slow, or lack skills in all the fundamental areas you will not last.


I'm not saying hockey was easy in 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. In fact I'll say it's impressive that Howe played in so many different eras of style. But in all of those time periods you could absolutely remain a prolific and rostered hockey player while having insane deficiencies. The 70s in particular was a time where if you knew the "tricks" you could get away with a lot and mask a lot of areas in your game. By all accounts that I've read of Howe, he was first and foremost a guy who would take every advantage he could get (even illegal ones) and was excellent at concealing it.


Again I'm not diminishing his obvious GOAT status. I'm just saying, in 2020 you're going to be exposed very quickly if you've aged, in 1979 you were not.

You realize Howe scored 41 points at age 52 right? Something Marleau hasn't done for 2 seasons now

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

You realize Howe scored 41 points at age 52 right? Something Marleau hasn't done for 2 seasons now

I mean those aren't comparable eras or stats, it's apples and oranges.


In 1979-1980 585 guys played at least one game. Of that 585 players, 285 scored at least 20 points. Basically, if you eliminate the 100 players (it's tad over) who played 10 games or less, you're left with almost 3/4 of the league that scored over 20 points. Howe was tied with several players for 41 points, giving him the spot between the 144th-148th leading scorer in the league that year.


In 2020 there were 883 players who played at least one game, eliminate the 150 guys who played 10 or less and you're at around 730 players. In 2020 357 players scored 20 points or more (granted shortened season) but that's a smidge under 1/2.


My point, and I think every hockey historians point, is that scoring is inflated in that era (it's not as crazy as the 1980s but it's not comparable to modern stats). Was Howe still a decent player? Sure, was 41 points in 1979 mind-blowing though? Nah, it's actually probably pretty comparable to Marleau putting up 22 points though.

 

[tarheelhockey]

This is literally the opposite of an artificial record

We're talking about a player who was good enough to break into the league as an 18 year old, and who was still good enough to pot double-digit goals as a 40 year old, who never missed any significant stretch of time due to injuries in all that time, played 10 or more playoff games in 9 different seasons, and still has a chance to break the regular season games played record after missing a season and a half of potential play due to labor stoppages

Artificial is like when the Sedin twins extended their iron man streaks by playing one shift in a meaningless regular season game, Patrick Marleau has been deemed a good enough player to be iced by NHL rosters for the last 23 years and has played in the vast majority of his teams' games

I think some posters are getting their panties in a bunch because their myopic mindsets can't separate the ideas that playing the most games and being an all-time great player are two vastly different things, but playing that many games for that long is still a big accomplishment; no one claims that Marc Recchi, Shane Doan or Matt Cullen are amongst the 20 most important, or best, or whatever criteria you want players ever, but they are amongst the top 20 in games played because they literally played that many games, which is in and of itself a huge feat

It doesn't mean that Patrick Marleau will be remembered as one of the best to ever do it like Gordie Howe is, but it is still an incredible feat that we may not see surpassed for a generation or more

Well said.

I'm not saying hockey was easy in 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s. In fact I'll say it's impressive that Howe played in so many different eras of style. But in all of those time periods you could absolutely remain a prolific and rostered hockey player while having insane deficiencies

We should also recognize that there are rostered players in the NHL today who have insane deficiencies. Zac Rinaldo is still plugging around the league, and it wasn't that long ago that a 45-year-old Jagr got a contract for adding nothing of value but his mojo.

 

[RageQuit77]

Saddest part of this is what kind treatment Patrick gets here from some "hockey-fans" during his late years of his career.

Sure, he has been in clear decline for few seasons now already, but that is set default to be expected for 40+ years old players, so it cannot be put as something against him particularly. But he seems to be also very level-headed guy, having no problems with anyone. It is easy to assume that at least part of his late roster-spot worthiness comes from his locker room presence, mentorship capabilities, and the model he set for younger guys.

I don't know how people can consider his career "unremarkable". We are talking 500G+, 1000Pts, hard working guy here anyway, with league top level longevity, persistency, and durability. Any of his incredible numbers could not be possible he being a total plug for his career prime, or without him being capable to keep himself fit nearly uninterruptedly. In Patrick's case I understand very very well why it haven't been big problem for him to find job regardless of him clearly being in his career twilight years.

I fail to see how his achievement is "unremarkable", if anything he is just the type of guy who you would expect to break the record if anyone does. If he does that, it very likely requires another Marleau-type player to break it again.

But, for someone it is horrible thing. They sob in their pillows, and cry how unfair and unremarkable it is that there must be a player with GP totals of Record-1GP before there can be a tie, and there must be Record GP-2GP player before there can be Record-1GP player...

Continue that and you get very long and very unlikely HFB post, that how ever would nicely visually demonstrate how extraordinary feat to get anywhere near the career GP-record actually is.

 

[kaiser matias]

If you only care about a record because you've heard of the player and think that they're independently good, then maybe records aren't for you to begin with.

Matt Hackett, Patrick Lalime, and Jeff Reese all hold meaningful goaltender records. None of them are diminished because the record-holders happened to have the NHL careers of Matt Hackett, Patrick Lalime, and Jeff Reese.

(Bonus points to whomever knows which record each holds.)

Patrick Marleau has had an excellent career in the NHL. If he plays until he's 52, then maybe the record will be cheapen...oh, wait.

Lalime had the record for most wins to start a career, while Reese had most points in a game I believe (that crazy Flames-Sharks game where Fleury had a shorthanded hat trick?) Don't know what Hackett did though.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Not really. It feels like they’re signing him for the purpose of this record. No other reason. It’s not happening naturally and it’s not an articulation of durability if this is how it happens. Doing it this way is cheap.

I’d also say, much of what makes a record significant is the person that holds the record. For several decades, Joe DiMaggio holds the hit streak record and almost everyone knows this because it’s connected to Joe DiMaggio . For several decades, the record for consecutive games with a HR was held by Dale Long and barely any one knew because it was Dale Long.

If Marleau gets this record, and especially this way, it will be cheapened.

Just like they signed him last season, right? When he played in every single game he was eligible for?

It only feels 'cheap' because you don't know what you're talking about, which has been common itt.