Where will Mo go?

[ChrisReevesLegs]

8 of the last 20 1st overall picks came from the OHL genius...keep going...

I don't agree with hockey fans on a lot of things, but I agree with the majority on this one, so I say it pretty much every month, every week, and every day

OHL is trash

 

[Kingpin794]

I don't agree with hockey fans on a lot of things, but I agree with the majority on this one, so I say it pretty much every month, every week, and every day

OHL is trash

Either you’re trying to (and succeeding) at getting a rise out of OHL fans and you don’t ACTUALLY believe what you just said, or you do believe what you just said and you’re just willfully being ignorant. So I don’t know whether to say well played or c’mon man.

As for Hronek being used as an example, he probably wasn’t going to get time in the Czech league and he wasn’t ready for the AHL so yeah, the OHL made sense for him. It didn’t hurt him. It wasn’t going to and it won’t hurt Seider either. I don’t think it will help Seider. He’d rack up a ton of points against slower, physically weaker opponents than what he was facing and everyone would start drooling over his stat line. He’s seems ready to be in the AHL. Continuing to play at that speed and against the physically stronger competition compared to junior, would be more beneficial for him.

So no, the OHL is not trash but I think Seider would be in a holding pattern for a year if he went to the OHL next season. If they can give him guaranteed time in Germany, that would be preferable too over OHL.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

Either you’re trying to (and succeeding) at getting a rise out of OHL fans and you don’t ACTUALLY believe what you just said, or you do believe what you just said and you’re just willfully being ignorant. So I don’t know whether to say well played or c’mon man.

As for Hronek being used as an example, he probably wasn’t going to get time in the Czech league and he wasn’t ready for the AHL so yeah, the OHL made sense for him. It didn’t hurt him. It wasn’t going to and it won’t hurt Seider either. I don’t think it will help Seider. He’d rack up a ton of points against slower, physically weaker opponents than what he was facing and everyone would start drooling over his stat line. He’s seems ready to be in the AHL. Continuing to play at that speed and against the physically stronger competition compared to junior, would be more beneficial for him.

So no, the OHL is not trash but I think Seider would be in a holding pattern for a year if he went to the OHL next season. If they can give him guaranteed time in Germany, that would be preferable too over OHL.

Agreed. The notes about Seider are all that he's very mature for his age, is leadership material, and learns and adapts quickly.

For those reasons I'd prefer he goes to a team with older players who he can learn from and continue to grow and mold his game around. Sounds like he would fit in anywhere quickly.

The OHL seems like a waste. He's physically and mentally leapfrogged that league already IMO.

OHL has been trash ever since the Whalers left. Flint has been garbage and doesn't really compare.

 

[Kingpin794]

Agreed. The notes about Seider are all that he's very mature for his age, is leadership material, and learns and adapts quickly.

For those reasons I'd prefer he goes to a team with older players who he can learn from and continue to grow and mold his game around. Sounds like he would fit in anywhere quickly.

The OHL seems like a waste. He's physically and mentally leapfrogged that league already IMO.

OHL has been trash ever since the Whalers left. Flint has been garbage and doesn't really compare.

Ok we agree on the main point but I'm going to let you die on that other hill.

 

[rawraw]

Our current best d-man Hronek went exactly this route. Technically Zadina did it in his draft year as well. Most European's that wind up in the CHL already have pro experience before coming over, the highly touted generally practicing and are playing spot duty as early as 16. So to answer your question a lot of guys, it is a part of why I find the hard no stance on this a bit much. I am not sure they will do it, but it is a viable option.

Most of the bad habits you like to keep out of the game are on the defensive side of the puck. You know the area they told us Seider already shows great knowledge in. With nice gap control and positional awareness. What the OHL would allow him to do is have the puck more and hold the puck more in his own zone, neutral zone and offensive zone. It would allow him to taste 20+ minutes a night, the eventual plan in Detroit. It would also put him on the smaller NA ice in a lower risk environment in terms of big shots while adjusting. These are the selling points and they are real.

Now he can make more money playing in Germany or the AHL. Those are fine leagues and he has things to work on. But no Ben Simon doesn't lose games for the Wings, that isn't how the AHL works or our partnership with the Devos family. The German coach cannot have him trying high risk moves offensively, he must fit the system and will be punished in a way he wouldn't be in the CHL where his talent level means rolling him back over the board to play again is your best chance to win. He would also check more high level first round talent night in and night out though not with the consistent energy, effort and skill you see up and down the lineup. But he isn't going to check anybody the caliber of Byfield the entire year in Germany either. The only 1st round caliber prospect in their league for the next draft is a teammate. Still he can develop in any of these leagues, again I stress though if the plan is Germany we shouldn't be putting him behind the 8 ball for their season by having him over here, he should be in their camp and loaned there for the year right now in my opinion. Mannheim's season starts in a couple weeks 3 days after the prospect tournament, put him there instead of Traverse City if that is the plan and do it today.

In Hroneks case, as I stated earlier, he wasn't physically mature enough in order to compete with men in NA at the time. He was a skilled but weak and small defender at that time. If he was 6'4 I'd bet he would have went straight to the Griffins instead.
The selling points you are talking about are real, but there has to be an element of challenge in there as well in order for him to develop, not just give him ice time. I don't see him gaining much from it while playing with a lot more time and space and against kids he can dominate with his size. He has already showed that he can play against NHL'rs and more than hold his own, albeit in a small sample size.
Don't see him gaining much from playing in that league in this case.
The AHL is the best option for him in my view.

 

[newfy]

Here's a question... lets say the coach doesn't deliver on his promise and the Wings and Seider are unhappy... can Seider just nope out of there midway through the season and come to AHL?

Not sure of the exact ins and outs of the rule but Nylander did this. Played half a year in Sweden then after Christmas or so he came over to play for the Marlies. Maybe if the wings loan him there they can it conditionally that if they dont like his usage hes coming to Grand Rapids?

As for the people arguing for or against the OHL in here, I dont think it will hurt him at all but I dont see it helping a whole bunch either. Hes huge and has already played pro, he should be playing against men. Yes you can list a bunch of players that went on to become amazing players from the OHL but that doesnt mean that they wouldnt have been better off playing against men a season earlier or that they werent capable of it at the time.

 

[MBH]

I generally don't like the idea of playing vs men and then going backwards to play against kids.
But after watching Rasmussen get worse and worse last year, I can definitely see advantages to sending Seider to a junior league.
It really depends on two things:
1) How much offensive upside does he have.
2) Where's the best place to develop that.

IMO, a big guy like Seider learn defense at any level. But things like passing, puck transportation, etc... sometimes you have to get that done at a lower level in order to get it done at a higher level.

For example, Rasmussen would have been better served skating the puck around the neutral zone in the WHL last year. He's never going to pick that up at the NHL level.

 

[Gniwder]

It wasn't about whether they went pro or not right away, it is they just came from playing with "kids", and they turned out fine.

They're generational talent, so they aren't good examples one way or the other. The only way you can screw up generational talent is if the Oilers pick the kid with a lottery pick.

Either way, I don't think the OHL will screw Seider up, but at the same time I don't think he'll learn much either. Not physical enough and too much time and space.

 

[ChrisReevesLegs]

I generally don't like the idea of playing vs men and then going backwards to play against kids.
But after watching Rasmussen get worse and worse last year, I can definitely see advantages to sending Seider to a junior league.
It really depends on two things:
1) How much offensive upside does he have.
2) Where's the best place to develop that.

IMO, a big guy like Seider learn defense at any level. But things like passing, puck transportation, etc... sometimes you have to get that done at a lower level in order to get it done at a higher level.

For example, Rasmussen would have been better served skating the puck around the neutral zone in the WHL last year. He's never going to pick that up at the NHL level.

Rasmussen aside, I see your point and I like it a lot actually.

The one skill Seider has not demonstrated is great offensive ability. It makes sense, as you say, to send him to a league like the OHL so he can gain confidence with his offense and dominant an OHL PP or something.

That said, Seider has been specifically praised as a quick learner who rises to every occasion. That fact puts me back into the boat of I want him challenged and learning from the best he can: AHL players.

You've kind of put me on this fence about this now. Kudos.

 

[saska sault]

Rasmussen was a 6 foot 6, 19 year old playing against men. He's not even grown into his body yet... He held his own. Sure he has lots to work on, but I was happy with him. I think this coming year will be more of the same from him, another year of learning the game, figuring out the pace and putting muscle on and he will be ready to truly start to show his skill.

How many teams just throw young prospects with big size into the fire and watch them sizzle out.. I think the Wings did a good job of insulating him while also giving him some opportunity.

 

[A Few Good Males]

Rasmussen was a 6 foot 6, 19 year old playing against men. He's not even grown into his body yet... He held his own. Sure he has lots to work on, but I was happy with him. I think this coming year will be more of the same from him, another year of learning the game, figuring out the pace and putting muscle on and he will be ready to truly start to show his skill.

How many teams just throw young prospects with big size into the fire and watch them sizzle out.. I think the Wings did a good job of insulating him while also giving him some opportunity.

Rasmussen is my neighbor so let’s ease up on the guy here. He should have won the Hart last year IMO.

 

[MBH]

Rasmussen was a 6 foot 6, 19 year old playing against men. He's not even grown into his body yet... He held his own. Sure he has lots to work on, but I was happy with him. I think this coming year will be more of the same from him, another year of learning the game, figuring out the pace and putting muscle on and he will be ready to truly start to show his skill.

How many teams just throw young prospects with big size into the fire and watch them sizzle out.. I think the Wings did a good job of insulating him while also giving him some opportunity.

It's been a long time since a Red Wings high ranked rookie played as poorly as Rasmussen.
And I don't think it's his fault.
He's just not ready. Not even close. He needs to gain two steps and especially his acceleration. And he needs to get sturdier. I think that's going to take some time.
By December, it was hard to watch.
He finished bottom 10 in the NHL in goals/60.
His final shift of the year... was symbolic of how the season played out.
Gets smashed off the puck for a goal against, and gets injured, out for the year.

Rasmussen has to get stronger and faster- not an easy thing to do. So the Red Wings should take their time with him.
You've Zadina, Svech and Hirose who can take his spot for a year or 1 months or however long it takes.

 

[roman star]

happy hollands out of here . rasmussen should have just played in chl last season while physically maturing

 

[FireBird71]

happy hollands out of here . rasmussen should have just played in chl last season while physically maturing

He was fine where he was at

 

[lilidk]

Rasmussen was as bad as anybody age 19 in NHL. He is going to be better than Mantha in the future, but now it's a learning process. I don't think we should compare him to Seider. Zadina going to be ok , but he wasn't ready last year to AHL. A lot of people expected him to dominate . The best scenario for Mo to go to college. Wish he go to BU.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Rasmussen was as bad as anybody age 19 in NHL. He is going to be better than Mantha in the future, but now it's a learning process. I don't think we should compare him to Seider. Zadina going to be ok , but he wasn't ready last year to AHL. A lot of people expected him to dominate . The best scenario for Mo to go to college. Wish he go to BU.

I doubt you'd find someone who believes Rasmussen will be better than Mantha in the future. Zadina was absolutely ready for the AHL last year, he didn't dominate as an 18 year old, but he had some nice stretches. I'm not sure college would help him either, although its not possible so no sense in debating it. I would like to see him in the OHL to work on his offense. But if DET's management thinks his offense can improve enough in the AHL/Ger, than that's okay with me also

 

[MTU hockey]

He was fine where he was at

I respectfully disagree. Before the season (2018-19) even began there was the possibility that that Rasmussen would possibly make the team, but mostly because it was either CHL or NHL for him. I will admit that I was wrong as I thought he would be ready for the NHL, but after watching him last season it was clear he still needs time (read: a lot of time) to fill out physically. Which really shouldn't be a surprise, a guy who is 6'6'' has a whole lot more filling out to do than someone who is ~6'. And really when you look around the league it's pretty rare for someone over 6'4'' to step into the league at 20 years old or younger and be exceptional.

Back on topic, I certainly think there are some benefits to Seider playing in the CHL. For one he isn't used to playing for 15+ minutes a night, let alone 25+. The second reason is that he is apparently pretty mature for his age as in he is pretty decent defensively. Well it's going to be way harder for him to grow his offensive game in the DEL or AHL if he isn't getting at least 15+ minutes of IT and some PP time. In the CHL he would get ridiculous minutes both 5 on 5 and PP, will CHL points translate directly to NHL points, hell no. But at least he would get used to hanging on to and handling the puck without fear of getting benched and he would have the opportunity to try things and explore some offensive creativity. I just fear that putting him into a pro league without substantially more IT is going to lead him more towards being a Vlasic type than a Pietrangelo (The CHL clearly hurt him lol) type. Not a bad thing, but I think maximizing potential should be the main focus with Seider.

 

[Snuggs]

I honestly think Seider is two or three years away. Playing in Germany one more year doesn't make me upset. Logging top line minutes while developing a bit of an offensive game, not bad. The move to NA might be a bit of a culture shock at the very least. I'd give him the season(This season) to adjust, learn, then make the big jump across the pond and play some AHL hockey the following season as a bigger/mature 19 year old. He's only 18 right now, and while he's bigger physically etc, I just think a year at home will serve him better than a big culture shock/etc will serve him making the jump this year.

Someone mentioned it. He'd benefit greatly enrolling into school somewhere and playing College two years, imo. Great way to adjust to the culture while working on his game.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Rasmussen was as bad as anybody age 19 in NHL. He is going to be better than Mantha in the future, but now it's a learning process. I don't think we should compare him to Seider. Zadina going to be ok , but he wasn't ready last year to AHL. A lot of people expected him to dominate . The best scenario for Mo to go to college. Wish he go to BU.

He can’t go to college. He is not eligible as he is already a professional.

 

[newfy]

If he plays in germany there better be some guarantees about ice time from that coaching staff. The team is good and he could end up buried in the line up. If that happens I would want to see him moved to the AHL like what happened with Nylander.

Seider only played about 12 mins a game last year and apparently that was with him gaining a bigger role as the season went on. Which means he was probably playing very little at all to start the year. Is it too much to ask a team of Mannheims calibre to bump his playing time 6 mins a game? Maybe... and if they dont I dont think he should play there

 

[SirloinUB]

With kronwall retiring Ansar Khan wrote:

Moritz Seider, the Red Wings’ top 2019 pick (No. 6 overall), isn’t apt to reach the NHL as an 18-year-old, but the club will evaluate him in training camp before deciding whether it’s best for him to return to his German team, Adler Mannheim, or play in Grand Rapids.

So Khan seems to think the CHL is not on the table.

 

[Kronwalled55]

I don't like the AHL as a development league. Especially for players trying to hone the offensive side of their game. It's like a black hole for scoring.

I think it's a good league to get established players regular reps on the ice, but not for growing newly drafted players. I think Germany is a better option.

 

[raymond23]

I don't like the AHL as a development league. Especially for players trying to hone the offensive side of their game. It's like a black hole for scoring.

I think it's a good league to get established players regular reps on the ice, but not for growing newly drafted players. I think Germany is a better option.

I tend to agree but then you have examples like Rantanen so it’s not the worst route for development.

 

[Henkka]

I tend to agree but then you have examples like Rantanen so it’s not the worst route for development.

Yeah.

Kucherov went to AHL, scored 24 points in 17 games and was called up.
Pastrnak went to AHL, scored 28 points in 25 games and was called up.

Great players dominate the league. It's that simple.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Rasmussen gained absolutely nothing by physically dominating a bunch of kids in junior.

He got to experience what it's like not being able to push around everybody else and will grow from that struggle. It'll make him a better player when he grows into his frame and can push around just about everybody.