Silver Seven What Do You Do With Logan Brown?

[Sweatred]

I think part of it is carrying over last years evaluation, they may have preferred White the year prior and that was enough to give him the first shot, which he took advantage of earned a spot. Same goes with Batherson, his play at the NHL level last year earned him some rope this year, but in his case he wasn't able to stick.

There's also factors like role, Brown doesn't really suit a bottom 6 roles, while White stylistically can, plus he is able to shift to wing, while Brown is seen as more of a pure center. As such, if the top 6 C roles are filled, Brown is at a disadvantage.

These are all valid points but the elephant in the room is the $28.5 million PD committed to White. The Sens owe him more money than any other forward on the team and it could go down as the worst contract in Sens history. I hope CW is lifting a weight and playing with a stickhandling aid in his garage somewhere... I bet Brown is.

 

[DrSense]

These are all valid points but the elephant in the room is the $28.5 million PD committed to White. The Sens owe him more money than any other forward on the team and it could go down as the worst contract in Sens history. I hope CW is lifting a weight and playing with a stickhandling aid in his garage somewhere... I bet Brown is.

Before last year, White had two 40-50 point pace seasons. He is 23 with his best hockey in front of him. He can play center or RW, and is generally, a solid two way player.

In the last 4 years, Bobby Ryan has had one 40 point season and makes $7.25M. He is 33 years old and a defensive liability.

I think we know what the worst contract is on our team.

White struggled in the dot and trying to carry a line last year for sure, but worst case, he is an overpaid solid third liner at a time when we are struggling to get over the cap floor. It's not looking like a great deal based on his production last season, but let's not over-react. He'll be at worst a solid complimentary RWer in our top 9, and might be a bit better than that still.

 

[Sweatred]

Before last year, White had two 40-50 point pace seasons. He is 23 with his best hockey in front of him. He can play center or RW, and is generally, a solid two way player.

In the last 4 years, Bobby Ryan has had one 40 point season and makes $7.25M. He is 33 years old and a defensive liability.

I think we know what the worst contract is on our team.

White struggled in the dot and trying to carry a line last year for sure, but worst case, he is an overpaid solid third liner at a time when we are struggling to get over the cap floor. It's not looking like a great deal based on his production last season, but let's not over-react. He'll be at worst a solid complimentary RWer in our top 9, and might be a bit better than that still.

I think he will improve, I’m not convinced it will be enough to make him a top 9 forward. I only give him credit for a single “Stoneaided” 41 pt season. In my opinion he was a top 15-18 forward in our organization last year. I suggested he “could” have the worst contract with the idea being if he stagnates at his current level we’re talking about a replacement player and that contract could challenge Bobby’s the worst all time.

I predict a modest improvement and a top 12 season type season or better with him slotting behind Duclair, Batherson, Brown on RW. I guess that depends if Laf is playing LW with Brady, (Brown/Norris), or Formenton etc.

But man, if he doesn’t improve we have a mess. Both the Ryan and White extensions are ugly.

 

[Icelevel]

There’s no debate to be had. No ones changing minds on him. It’s going close to as expected. He’s one of our top prospects.

Stay the course. Be cool

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

This is not a White thread.

What happens with any other prospects and how they are handled are meaningless when talking about Logan Brown.

 

[Sweatred]

This is not a White thread.

What happens with any other prospects and how they are handled are meaningless when talking about Logan Brown.

I disagree. Brown is competing for a 1-2 or 4C roll with the team against Arti, White, Norris, Chaplik etc . Arti and White aren’t going to the minors and White’s development is a team priority. White’s play at 2C or 4RW absolutely influences Brown’s chance of sticking with the team.

 

[Micklebot]

Here's the White thread: Player Discussion - Colin White - C/RW

Any in depth discussion of White should happen there. This is a L.Brown thread, you can certainly talk about who he is competing with for a spot, but whether White's contract is terrible or not, whether he is replacement level or just had a sophomore slump, and predictions on his career going forward belong in his thread not this one

 

[Sweatred]

I am counting on :

1. Norris playing decent at 1-2C
2. White being gifted a 1-2C spot for 15+ games or more.

That will leave Brown in Belleville for the first 1/4 of the season or possibly LW. I’m not sure the Sens would play him there.

 

[Silencio]

I agree. Stay the course with him.
Think Zibanejad - Sens gave up too early on him. Would they like to have him now? Absolutely

I agree with the sentiment, though Zibanejad was coming off back to back 20 goal seasons at Logan Brown's age.

 

[DrSense]

I agree with the sentiment, though Zibanejad was coming off back to back 20 goal seasons at Logan Brown's age.

It was actually season 4 and 5 for Zbad when he scored 20 for us two years in a row. But a better example from the same draft is Couturier. He was a higher pick and higher regarded than Brown, and made the league right away, but his first 6 seasons were actually pretty bland overall, until he was 25 and now he is a clear #1 center.

You don't panic and trade big talented centers - a difficult position and bigger guys take a while to find their game at the next level and learn how to use their body to be more effective. And our center depth is brutal, so trading him or giving up in any way doesn't make any sense.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I've decided in my mind that he's going to be a 70+ point first line center within the next two years.

Nothing rational anybody says will change it.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I don't think this team traded Zibanejad because they didn't think he'd reach the next level.

I think they traded him because they thought Brassard would be better in the short term, and Zibanejad would be gone after his 3 years of team control were up. I sincerely think, we knew this rebuild was coming for money reasons, way before the team collapsed in 2017. The team collapsing only expedited the process.

While it might have been an attempt to pump Zibanejad's perception for a trade, the summer he was traded was the summer that he apparently took off season training the most seriously. Previous to that, his effort level was questioned consistently. Even in his first year with the Rangers, I recall his effort level still being considered an issue.

It seems like with Zibanejad, it was both an issue of physical and mental maturity.

While I don't think he was traded because the Senators didn't think he'd make it to the next level, I also do not think they expected there was a reasonable chance that he'd be as good as he has been this past year. I don't think any team expected that, or else the offers for him would have been much better, and the Senators might have tried to find a way to keep him long term despite it going against their "win now" mantra that they had when they moved him.

 

[Samsquanch]

I think he will improve, I’m not convinced it will be enough to make him a top 9 forward. I only give him credit for a single “Stoneaided” 41 pt season. In my opinion he was a top 15-18 forward in our organization last year. I suggested he “could” have the worst contract with the idea being if he stagnates at his current level we’re talking about a replacement player and that contract could challenge Bobby’s the worst all time.

I predict a modest improvement and a top 12 season type season or better with him slotting behind Duclair, Batherson, Brown on RW. I guess that depends if Laf is playing LW with Brady, (Brown/Norris), or Formenton etc.

But man, if he doesn’t improve we have a mess. Both the Ryan and White extensions are ugly.

White has been an excellent player at every level of hockey that hes played at. And hes played at the highest level possible for a US born hockey player his entire career, and is always a front line player for his team.

He obviously didnt do himself any favors at all last year with some clearly shakey play on his part, it has been a rough start between him and DJ Smith if were being honest. But we've already seen that White can be a great complimentary top 6 player at the NHL level. Stone is an amazing player and obviously helped him in a big way, thats true. And no I dont ever see White being the primary driver on an scoring line either.

But were going to have several players with high end talent and skill much like Stone in our lineup in the not so distant future, and White has all the tools to be the perfect high end (top 6) digger type player that allows teams to spread out their offense.

The amount of doubt and shade I see thrown his way is staggering tbh. There is doubt that he can be a top 9 player? Come on, really? This isnt Colin Greening we are talking about here. White is 10 times the player at the same age as that, which is about the same level of respect that he gets in retrospect.

 

[coladin]

I don't think this team traded Zibanejad because they didn't think he'd reach the next level.

I think they traded him because they thought Brassard would be better in the short term, and Zibanejad would be gone after his 3 years of team control were up. I sincerely think, we knew this rebuild was coming for money reasons, way before the team collapsed in 2017. The team collapsing only expedited the process.

While it might have been an attempt to pump Zibanejad's perception for a trade, the summer he was traded was the summer that he apparently took off season training the most seriously. Previous to that, his effort level was questioned consistently. Even in his first year with the Rangers, I recall his effort level still being considered an issue.

It seems like with Zibanejad, it was both an issue of physical and mental maturity.

While I don't think he was traded because the Senators didn't think he'd make it to the next level, I also do not think they expected there was a reasonable chance that he'd be as good as he has been this past year. I don't think any team expected that, or else the offers for him would have been much better, and the Senators might have tried to find a way to keep him long term despite it going against their "win now" mantra that they had when they moved him.

I think they traded Zibanejad because they did not want to spend another 15M over three years waiting for him to reach that level. If they saw more in him, as far as consistency, and maturity, chances are they do not trade him. Good for Zibby, but let's see him do it again before we talk of the home run that everyone thinks he is right now. I hope he does continue.

Logan Brown is developing just fine, and next year will be a big step for him to take. I'm still a believer

 

[Cosmix]

Here's the White thread: Player Discussion - Colin White - C/RW

Any in depth discussion of White should happen there. This is a L.Brown thread, you can certainly talk about who he is competing with for a spot, but whether White's contract is terrible or not, whether he is replacement level or just had a sophomore slump, and predictions on his career going forward belong in his thread not this one

You cannot whitewash that here!

 

[Sweatred]

I think they traded Zibanejad because they did not want to spend another 15M over three years waiting for him to reach that level. If they saw more in him, as far as consistency, and maturity, chances are they do not trade him. Good for Zibby, but let's see him do it again before we talk of the home run that everyone thinks he is right now. I hope he does continue.

Logan Brown is developing just fine, and next year will be a big step for him to take. I'm still a believer

I wish Mann or PD would expand on his comments that Brown (and Brann) needs more time in the minors. I’d like to hear that he has as much of a shot of making the team as anyone.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

I am counting on :

1. Norris playing decent at 1-2C
2. White being gifted a 1-2C spot for 15+ games or more.

That will leave Brown in Belleville for the first 1/4 of the season or possibly LW. I’m not sure the Sens would play him there.

I think Brown is ahead if both of them going into the season. If anyone there is gonna spend a bit more time in the AHL, it's Norris.

Not a knock on Norris at all, but he really took off statistically when Brown came back and started taking the top minutes back, maybe giving Norris some better match ups. Now,wwe k know Norris took that opportunity and absolutely slayed it, but it's a factor to keep in mind. Both are Top 6 NHL players in my eyes, but Brown needs the chance first.

It also really depends on who they draft, but I think Eugene will be hurting too much financially to not have Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi (we're getting one of these centres) in the NHL, which will probably see White move to the wing as Brown and Norris are better fits as a Top 6 C.

I genuinely think Brown plays the entire year in Ottawa. It truly is a sink or swim year for him. Worst cases, if he doesn't pan out at C, he can move to the LW when Norris comes up. If he does, Norris can easily shift to the wing. But the org really needs to give Brown a real shot at taking an open Top 6 C spot. I think Batherson and Duclair would be a great wing combo for him.

 

[Sweatred]

I think Brown is ahead if both of them going into the season. If anyone there is gonna spend a bit more time in the AHL, it's Norris.

Not a knock on Norris at all, but he really took off statistically when Brown came back and started taking the top minutes back, maybe giving Norris some better match ups. Now,wwe k know Norris took that opportunity and absolutely slayed it, but it's a factor to keep in mind. Both are Top 6 NHL players in my eyes, but Brown needs the chance first.

It also really depends on who they draft, but I think Eugene will be hurting too much financially to not have Byfield/Stutzle/Rossi (we're getting one of these centres) in the NHL, which will probably see White move to the wing as Brown and Norris are better fits as a Top 6 C.

I genuinely think Brown plays the entire year in Ottawa. It truly is a sink or swim year for him. Worst cases, if he doesn't pan out at C, he can move to the LW when Norris comes up. If he does, Norris can easily shift to the wing. But the org really needs to give Brown a real shot at taking an open Top 6 C spot. I think Batherson and Duclair would be a great wing combo for him.

I agree 100% with you but Mann flat out quoted saying Brown and Brann needed more AHL time and Norris was ready (and Form). I’m not sure if that was the minor league coach just talking off his cuff or part of an organizational plan.

I don’t see the point of telling kids 5 months out that they will or won’t be making the team ... but it was publicly put out there and under DJ this organization has “stuck to their plans”.

 

[Sensung]

I agree 100% with you but Mann flat out quoted saying Brown and Brann needed more AHL time and Norris was ready (and Form). I’m not sure if that was the minor league coach just talking off his cuff or part of an organizational plan.

I don’t see the point of telling kids 5 months out that they will or won’t be making the team ... but it was publicly put out there and under DJ this organization has “stuck to their plans”.

Missed that quote.

Can you provide a source please?

 

[TkachukMyAho]

Haven't read the whole thread, but it would be ridiculous to cut bait on Logan right now. He was drafted as a project and to me he's coming along quite nicely. I strongly believe he's in our opening lineup next season and makes a decent impact.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Missed that quote.

Can you provide a source please?

its an interpretation of a quote without the context of injuries which held both players out to finish the season and what they were working on developmentally before they got hurt.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

His injuries are a bit of concern but the IQ and skill is definitely there. Kind of slow but perhaps could be offset with some speedy wingers.

 

[aragorn]

Logan Brown has some issues, no question, mostly between his ears & needs to mature sooner rather than later & IMO that is one of the reasons he is being kept in Belleville. The other reason is that the Sens have to unload a few more guys on the roster like Anisimov, Tierny & Reilly to make a little room for players who are ready to take the next step & IMO Brown is in that group. I think he will be one of those guys who is better in the NHL than he ever was in the AHL, probably because he needs to play with smarter & better players.

Brown will need a guy like Tkachuk or Paul on one wing, someone who can do the dirty work along the boards, behind the net & in front of the net. He will also need a finisher on the other side someone like Batherson who can put the puck in the net when Brown makes a spectacular pass through 3 guys. His size will help him fight against some of the other big #1 centres in the league including in our division that we play more often. Brown seems to have magic hands & eyes & can find guys through anywhere on the ice, the Sens need this kind of player. I think we all wish he had more drive & determination, but he's a cerebral player with finesse gifts including size that Ottawa has to develop properly in a position to succeed. And the good news is that they are acquiring more & more better prospects who hopefully achieve their potential.

 

[Crosside]

I wonder if not AHL season if we gonna graduate Brown, Norris, Branns Etc with the big club because better learn in the Nhl than miss one year

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I wonder if not AHL season if we gonna graduate Brown, Norris, Branns Etc with the big club because better learn in the Nhl than miss one year

I wonder if the NHL expands the roster size.. The AHL not playing games at all would be detrimental to development and will impact the rebuild