Silver Seven What Do You Do With Logan Brown?

[Sweatred]

I think you have to decide what your 2C is? I hear the suggestion that a 2C is who ever plays the second most minutes or a 2C is who ever leads the 2ND scoring offensive line.

That 2C roll often gets less minutes if they don’t get primary PP time, they don’t PK, and they don’t match up defensively against the other teams L1.

In my view Zibby was a second scoring line 2C with Smith’s line acting as the match up /checking line, PK etc often considered a 3rd line.

in the end I’m not sure it matters. That appears to be the roll Brown is fighting for unless he can take over 1C.

 

[JungleBeat]

Spezza was hurt for most of that year (12-13). Zibanejad played sheltered 3rd line minutes. Turris was leaned on heavily to step up with Spezza hurt. Smith took up a bigger role than Zibanejad. Whether people want to argue that Smith deserved that role over Zibanejad would be something entirely different, but Zib was absolutely not the 2C. Saying 2C/3C, etc doesn't really properly describe their usage. There was a lot of spreading minutes around because of injuries and having a young team up front. But Zibanejad absolutely was not the 2C that year.

Zibanejad was a bottom 6 C for Ottawa until Spezza was traded. He was used in a more offensively role, but it isn't like he was leaned on with big assignments or big minutes. Again, if people want to argue that he was being held back and he could have been a top 6 C before he was used as one, fine. But it just isn't factual to say he was the 2C all the way back in 12-13. This is the same guy that started (controversially) 13-14 in the AHL.

This is revisionist history. Initially after Zibanejad got called he averaged limited ice time, but soon after it became clear that he was the second line centre on the newly formed “kid line” including Silfverberg and Conacher. It showed results as Zibanejad was 4th in team scoring behind the first line. The “GSN” line of Greening, Smith, and Neil may have been used a lot during his first couple of games but it was clear after that Mika was going be on the second line and that Smith was out there to grind since there was no depth.

Also, I’m talking about 2013 exclusively. 2014 was a disaster.

 

[Micklebot]

This is revisionist history. Initially after Zibanejad got called he averaged limited ice time, but soon after it became clear that he was the second line centre on the newly formed “kid line” including Silfverberg and Conacher. It showed results as Zibanejad was 4th in team scoring behind the first line. The “GSN” line of Greening, Smith, and Neil may have been used a lot during his first couple of games but it was clear after that Mika was going be on the second line and that Smith was out there to grind since there was no depth.

Also, I’m talking about 2013 exclusively. 2014 was a disaster.

Smith got a lot more mins than Zibanejad at 5v5, it's not just a case of the first few games. Zibanejad had more 5v5 TOI than Smith in a grand total of 9 of his 42 games, and only 1 of the last 5 games of the season.

I mean, all season we all complained about how GSN was getting too much time, and they needed to play the kids more. The kid line was certainly better offensively, but for better or worse, the coach trusted GSN a lot more and kept going back to it for their tough matchups. The entire teams strategy was grinding it out because we didn't have Spezza, Karlsson or Michalek.

Heck, compare our center usage from the prior year at 5v5;

In 2013, Zibanejad averaged 11:04 per game behind Turris at 14:31 and Smith at 13:28

In 2012:
Spezza: 15:05
Turris: 14:35
Smith: 11:14

Or in 2011:
Spezza: 13:50
Fisher: 13:27
Kelly: 12:10
Smith: 10:59

Heck, look at 2014 when he was clearly 3rd line center at best
Turris: 13:35
Spezza: 13:23
Smith: 12:59
Zibanejad: 11:23

Zibanejad's icetime in 2013 looks an awful lot like other guys that were clearly 3rd line centers over the years.

Anyways, Brown might be able to make an impact in a similar way; some limited and sheltered ES mins with offensively inclined linemates and PP time while I'm guessing a line with Conner Brown, maybe Paul and Tierney eat up more mins and tougher matchups. Nothing wrong with breaking into the league like that.

 

[DrSense]

You have to be careful just looking at ES time - can be misleading. Guys who gets lots of PP time, sometimes have slightly less ES time because the other center was on the ice for 1.5 minutes of a man advantage, which counts as his regular shift. Same for PK.

 

[Sens]

I’d probably just give Brown a couple speedy wingers like Duclair and Formeton... load him up on PP time and see if he sinks or swims

you’ll have a better idea of what you have after half a season and then you can make your decision

There’s no reason to rush

 

[Sens]

I think worst case he’d have 41-5-15-20 and you’d see he is not ready for full time top six

best case hes running the PP and he’s something like 41-10-25-35

Your stoked at him as a pp monster

 

[Micklebot]

I’d probably just give Brown a couple speedy wingers like Duclair and Formeton... load him up on PP time and see if he sinks or swims

you’ll have a better idea of what you have after half a season and then you can make your decision

There’s no reason to rush

He had a lot of his success in the AHL with Paul and Batherson as his wingers, not sure speedy wingers suits his game. That's not to say he can't play with them, I just don't think we should focus on speed. Tkachuk I think would be a great linemate to drag up L.Brown's intensity, and create havoc in the slot to open things up for him. Duclair might still work on the other wing.

Formenton is a bit of a shift disturber himself, so he could work too I guess, and Batherson adds some chemistry.

Spreading out our burners might be better too imo. Not sure loading up Formenton and Duclair makes a lot of sense from a macro perspective.

 

[Sens]

He had a lot of his success in the AHL with Paul and Batherson as his wingers, not sure speedy wingers suits his game. That's not to say he can't play with them, I just don't think we should focus on speed. Tkachuk I think would be a great linemate to drag up L.Brown's intensity, and create havoc in the slot to open things up for him. Duclair might still work on the other wing.

Formenton is a bit of a shift disturber himself, so he could work too I guess, and Batherson adds some chemistry.

Spreading out our burners might be better too imo. Not sure loading up Formenton and Duclair makes a lot of sense from a macro perspective.

I can see it your way as well but Brown was feeding Duclair some nice passes his time here... I think Duclairs speed will make Brown effective with his vision... spread things out

I also like Formeton for puck retrieval beyond his speed.. I think he has Cogliano upside and he’d play well with Brown-Duclaire

 

[Micklebot]

I can see it your way as well but Brown was feeding Duclair some nice passes his time here... I think Duclairs speed will make Brown effective with his vision... spread things out

I also like Formeton for puck retrieval beyond his speed.. I think he has Cogliano upside and he’d play well with Brown-Duclaire

Yeah, I think the line could work, I just don't think we need to load up on speed to support Brown. I also think if both his wingers are flying up the ice he might get left behind, or cause them to have to wait at the blue line too often... I'd rather give him a mix of weapons because he's got the vision to take advantage of more heady players as well.

It's certainly worth trying, and I agree Brown and Duclair showed some chemistry in their limited time together.

 

[aragorn]

Imagine if Ottawa would have kept Mark Stone & draft Byfield, they would have had a Super Heavy Offensive Team, hence further to be known as SHOT. And added two good defencemen in the 1st rd & three good forwards + in the 2nd/3rd rd of the 2020 draft. Then add two towering good defencemen in the 2021 draft. Trade JBD & White to Tampa for Sergachev.

Byfield, Sanderson, Schneider, Cuylle, Cotton, Peterson, Kleven, Pytlik

Tkachuk (A) - Byfield (2020) - Stone (Captain)
Paul - L. Brown - Batherson
Formenton - Norris - Pinto
Cuylle (2020) - Peterson (2020) - Pytlik (2020)/Kastelic

Chabot (A) - Sergachev
Sanderson (2020) - Schneider (2020)
Power (2021) - Schmidt (2021)
Kleven (2020) - Cotton (2020)

Hogberg - Gustavsson/Daccord

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

What dont you get? He literally played 2nd line centre on a playoff team. If his play wasn't satisfactory at the time, of course he would have been pushed down the lineup. But he wasnt. He jumped in, and put up a .5ppg pace. His play dictated that he warranted that top six position. His play dictated that he was better than the AHL.

I just don't think anyone realized at the time how great of a prospect he was.

Edit: Not only that, but he was the 2nd line centre when we beat the Canadiens in the playoffs 4-1.

This is old news at this point so I won't dive in too much but the "how you got there" is equally important when discussing players roles/slots on the team.

Zibby for his first 3 years bounced around the AHL/NHL and also from line 1-3 (with PP time because of his one-timer). I think people confuse the dominant player they see now vs what he was when he first entered the league (and given our teams make/transition phase) when he was still very raw but you saw his potential.

 

[otown]

Will this question ever be answered without a real shot to play on a consistent basis with the big club?

What should the Senators do with Logan Brown?

 

[Icelevel]

Will this question ever be answered without a real shot to play on a consistent basis with the big club?

What should the Senators do with Logan Brown?

Yes. It's simple. You start him in the top 6 with tkachuk, norris, batherson, c brown, formenton, .... and let him grow with the group.
I'd expect 60+ points from him next year. He is good.

 

[Sweatred]

Yes. It's simple. You start him in the top 6 with tkachuk, norris, batherson, c brown, formenton, .... and let him grow with the group.
I'd expect 60+ points from him next year. He is good.

I don’t think that happens. Mann publicly stated that Brown needs to start in the AHL. Who knows how things change but it felt like comment had the orgs blessing.

Id like to think the Sens would give him a shot to earn the playing time. I think White will get one of the top 1-2C spots regardless of how his camp goes. Mann also said Norris was ready... so we may see Norris in the 2C roll and Brown with the 1C Belleville.

1. White
2. Norris
3. Tierney
4. Hawryluk

 

[DJB]

It's very simple what to do with Brown..

He stays in the AHL to continue to develop his game until he is NHL ready.

I would not trade him. What would you he getting for him anyways? I'd rather he either become something if he develops or hes a bust.

If would not simply deal him for a 2nd or whatever

 

[Peptic Balcers]

It's very simple what to do with Brown..

He stays in the AHL to continue to develop his game until he is NHL ready.

I would not trade him. What would you he getting for him anyways? I'd rather he either become something if he develops or hes a bust.

If would not simply deal him for a 2nd or whatever

he's ready

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Play him top 6 and on one of the PP units. Coach him , give him every opportunity to screw up and fix it. Evaluate after 40 games. Do not cut his ice time when he has lapses or makes mistakes. Put him back out there .. challenge him by putting him in uncomfortable situations.

 

[aragorn]

I don’t think that happens. Mann publicly stated that Brown needs to start in the AHL. Who knows how things change but it felt like comment had the orgs blessing.

Id like to think the Sens would give him a shot to earn the playing time. I think White will get one of the top 1-2C spots regardless of how his camp goes. Mann also said Norris was ready... so we may see Norris in the 2C roll and Brown with the 1C Belleville.

1. White
2. Norris
3. Tierney
4. Hawryluk

OMG that is awful down the middle, don't you think so too? Anisimov will probably be a centre rather than Hawryluk. I wonder what would have happened especially to a guy like L. Brown if Belleville would have had an opportunity to play in the playoffs this yr? They had a great team & looked like they could have gone all the way in the AHL playoffs. What would have been Brown's role & how would he have been perceived now? I guess we'll never know but we do know that he was part of that team & they were a very good team all yr with him down there for most of the yr.

At 6'6", 220 lbs L. Brown is an opposing image even if he isn't very physical, he has that long reach to steal pucks & along with that the weight to lean on players & tire them out quickly. He has superior vision & hockey IQ & the playmaking ability to find guys through a scrum of players. These guys don't grow on trees, in fact this guy is as big as a tree. At some point next season whenever that is & they start to play hockey again, I would love to see Tkachuk & Batherson on his wing bringing a combination of toughness, speed & skill. IMO it could turn into one of the best lines in the NHL in the mold of Getzlaf, Perry & Ryan in their heyday, although not similar players. I think he will be given his opportunity to stick after one of or both Tierny and/or Anisimov are moved out.

 

[Sweatred]

OMG that is awful down the middle, don't you think so too? Anisimov will probably be a centre rather than Hawryluk. I wonder what would have happened especially to a guy like L. Brown if Belleville would have had an opportunity to play in the playoffs this yr? They had a great team & looked like they could have gone all the way in the AHL playoffs. What would have been Brown's role & how would he have been perceived now? I guess we'll never know but we do know that he was part of that team & they were a very good team all yr with him down there for most of the yr.

At 6'6", 220 lbs L. Brown is an opposing image even if he isn't very physical, he has that long reach to steal pucks & along with that the weight to lean on players & tire them out quickly. He has superior vision & hockey IQ & the playmaking ability to find guys through a scrum of players. These guys don't grow on trees, in fact this guy is as big as a tree. At some point next season whenever that is & they start to play hockey again, I would love to see Tkachuk & Batherson on his wing bringing a combination of toughness, speed & skill. IMO it could turn into one of the best lines in the NHL in the mold of Getzlaf, Perry & Ryan in their heyday, although not similar players. I think he will be given his opportunity to stick after one of or both Tierny and/or Anisimov are moved out.

Ya , I think Arti plays in there sometimes but who knows where the Sens players will be after 6+ months off. The young guys will be more motivated to stay in shape.

 

[aragorn]

Ya , I think Arti plays in there sometimes but who knows where the Sens players will be after 6+ months off. The young guys will be more motivated to stay in shape.

Agreed, I expect a lot more turnover leading up to the next trade deadline, maybe even at the draft, a few guys could go. Of course, that's if & only if this thing ever gets back to normal or if this creates a whole new normal. Would anyone be surprised if we are still talking about resuming hockey a yr from now? Who knows what will happen, everything is still up in the air IMO.

 

[DJB]

he's ready

I disagree. Offensively he is, but work ethic and the other areas of his game he is not.

 

[Icelevel]

It's very simple what to do with Brown..

He stays in the AHL to continue to develop his game until he is NHL ready.

I would not trade him. What would you he getting for him anyways? I'd rather he either become something if he develops or hes a bust.

If would not simply deal him for a 2nd or whatever

They could do that too. Depending on what he's done with the time off, I'd say nhl or ahl based on that.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

This off season, Brown will be the most challenging, and maybe most important current prospect for the Senators to evaluate. He's a year away from being waiver eligible, and he will also require a protection spot in the Seattle expansion draft.

If the Senators are no longer bullish on him making the NHL, there is a valid argument for exploring the market for him right now. He will have little to no trade value if he doesn't crack the NHL by the end of this season, yet it is unlikely that someone with the size and skill of Brown doesn't get claimed by one of the other 31 teams if he is placed on waivers in 2021-22.

I would hold on to him, but the clock is ticking.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

It's very simple what to do with Brown..

He stays in the AHL to continue to develop his game until he is NHL ready.

I would not trade him. What would you he getting for him anyways? I'd rather he either become something if he develops or hes a bust.

If would not simply deal him for a 2nd or whatever

I think there would only be two types of trades out there:

• 2nd or 3rd round pick type return
• Change of scenery swap for another struggling prospect who might be on the outs with their org. Not saying he is equal value to all these players, but some names might be Jesse Puljujarvi (won't play for EDM), Lias Andersson (similar situation to Puljujarvi), Nolan Patrick (is a science project worth of injuries), Casey Mittelstadt (drafted by different management group, close to no longer being waiver exempt).

The Sens are boxed into a corner value wise with Brown, because waivers starting in 2021, along with having to protect Brown from Seattle, means that whoever acquires him won't have much time to decide whether or not it is working.

I think that because we invested a very high pick into him, people are going to be more likely to want to hold on to him. People should ask themselves, if Brown played for a different team, would they want the Senators to give up a 2nd for him with his potential and him being a year away from qualifying for waivers? If your answer is no, the Senators should not give up a 2nd for him, and if a second is on the table, then it is rational that the Senators should trade him.

 

[Cosmix]

I think you have to decide what your 2C is? I hear the suggestion that a 2C is who ever plays the second most minutes or a 2C is who ever leads the 2ND scoring offensive line.

That 2C roll often gets less minutes if they don’t get primary PP time, they don’t PK, and they don’t match up defensively against the other teams L1.

In my view Zibby was a second scoring line 2C with Smith’s line acting as the match up /checking line, PK etc often considered a 3rd line.

in the end I’m not sure it matters. That appears to be the roll Brown is fighting for unless he can take over 1C.

The Senators currently do not have a 1C nor a 2C, and is using two Cs, one who is a 3C and the other playing like a 4C.

L. Brown could be put in the 1C or 2C position because of the lack of talent on this team. I hope he plays with enthusiasm and uses his time off this lengthy off-season to improve his first three step quickness, fitness level and physical game. There is an opportunity for him to firmly grab a top offensive C position during the next training camp.