Bumping in case Nylander mess over...
I don't love Howard, but it'd be an upgrade most likely. I wish we could find someone younger to target. As with anything, it depends on the price to both acquire a decent Howard, and to get Detroit to eat 2.5 years of suck.
As I mentioned in the other thread, maybe we don't need the legit starter guy (though we all want to see it after all we've been through), but the right style. This team has played better in front of calm goalies for some time for the most part (even if that calm goalie, mostly Cam, didn't always hold up their end). The guys we've run through in recent years that the team didn't look good in front of aren't exactly the calmest netminders in the world: Lack, Darling, Mrazek, Khudobin. They have looked pretty good generally in front of Cam and McElhinney. Maybe we just need that type, but younger and better.Varly or Bob are the 2 legit starters coming up. Gotta pay for them
As I mentioned in the other thread, maybe we don't need the legit starter guy (though we all want to see it after all we've been through), but the right style. This team has played better in front of calm goalies for some time for the most part (even if that calm goalie, mostly Cam, didn't always hold up their end). The guys we've run through in recent years that the team didn't look good in front of aren't exactly the calmest netminders in the world: Lack, Darling, Mrazek, Khudobin. They have looked pretty good generally in front of Cam and McElhinney. Maybe we just need that type, but younger and better.
FWIW (very little, admittedly), my take on this is that the goaltender's calm is of no value to his teammates, and they don't play better/worse based on how he approaches the game. They are out there to run the system, which may or may not include doing what they can to prevent shots from getting to the goaltender...but what happens after properly executing within the system is beyond them. Now...having said that, I do believe that a calm goaltender is a better one, and *that* is the reason for which we should desire one. But this business of it affecting the skater's play is a reach.
Case in point: this exact moment in time. Lest you forget, the team's play in front of Mac has been pretty underwhelming during his streak of starting games. If you were correct in your hypothesis, the skaters would appear to be playing better as of late. Maybe I'm not reading y'all correctly, but it seems to me the comments on this board would suggest that we're unhappy with the play of the skaters atm.
However, a goaltender's calm absolutely has an effect on spectators, so it's my opinion that y'all are projecting your anxiety onto the players. And that's it...it's your own well-being that's affected...nothing more. And yes, at times the skaters are spectators too, and they might be anxious as they see pandemonium in the crease, but I don't think it does a thing to influence how they play the game in front of him.
I agree with @geehaad for what it's worth. For one thing, Cam Ward is getting grouped with McElhinney as the "calm" goalies, but Cam was pretty bad for most of his career here.
I think we've made way, way, way too much of goalie styles over the years attempting to rationalize why all goalies who come here suck. But in the end, it comes down to stopping pucks and focusing on the next play.
The style stuff was crap from the beginning and it's still cheap now. Make a freakin save is all that matters.
I've always thought of calm as not losing positioning consistently. I think both McBackup and Ward were good at that, while Darling is horrible and Mrazek is not great.It depends what you mean by calm. Most of what people refer to as “calm” ends up meaning “good rebound control”, which absolutely has an effect on the team. Another thing that people refer to as “calm” is staying within your net to make saves. This also matters to the team, because defensemen know they don’t have to go all Faulk every play and end up playing goalie. Every time a defenseman has to think about playing goalie himself, he has to lose his man to do it. That matters.
But if by “calm” we literally just mean Tripp saying “look at those compact saves, he barely moved, look at him!”, Dominik Hasek, Arturs Irbe, even Marty Brodeur to an extent have a few things to say about calm being better.
Admittedly it was a long post...just making sure y'all didn't miss this important piece.FWIW (very little, admittedly), my take on this is that the goaltender's calm is of no value to his teammates, and they don't play better/worse based on how he approaches the game. They are out there to run the system, which may or may not include doing what they can to prevent shots from getting to the goaltender...but what happens after properly executing within the system is beyond them. Now...having said that, I do believe that a calm goaltender is a better one, and *that* is the reason for which we should desire one. But this business of it affecting the skater's play is a reach.
Any analysis that doesn't take into consideration the *actual evidence* of the last few games is worthless. The skaters aren't playing better...Mac is. Furthermore, I remember many times in this board's history where failing to score goals was attributed to having a lack of confidence in the goaltender. Clearly that, too, is bullshit, these games as evidence.People who analyze the team for a living uniformly disagree with you, for whatever that's worth.
Admittedly it was a long post...just making sure y'all didn't miss this important piece.
Any analysis that doesn't take into consideration the *actual evidence* of the last few games is worthless. The skaters aren't playing better...Mac is. Furthermore, I remember many times in this board's history where failing to score goals was attributed to having a lack of confidence in the goaltender. Clearly that, too, is bull****, these games as evidence.
Perhaps. I might be labeling particular characteristics as "calm" that you might not...example: not getting down on oneself for allowing a goal, movements that are "compact" and precise so as to not over-commit to any given threat such that it leaves you vulnerable to puck movement (e.g. Darling blowing out past the goalpost), not making the first move when a shooter has you lined up (i.e. breakaway situations, etc).I think your clarification hurts your point.
I see those as "calm" and characteristics of a strong goaltender.
Meh? A 30 point forward sign for $4M/yr through next season...much rather keep TVRWhat do you guys thinks of
Mikkel Boedker
Vs
Trevor Van Riemsdyk.
Boedker gives more stability in the top 9, could replace Foegele/McGinn on 2nd LW.
TVR gives us more depth on back end.
I think your clarification hurts your point. I don't believe a calm goalie is a better one. Some of the best goalies in NHL history played like their hair was on fire. Patrick Roy made goalie fights a thing. Dominik Hasek made saves with his mask -- on purpose. And of course, Ken Dryden just played goal for a few years because he was too young to run for parliament.
Goalie "styles" and personalities are all over the map. The successful ones prevent pucks from going into the net. The unsuccessful ones don't. I prefer the ones who do, and I care very little how they go about it.
What do you guys thinks of
Mikkel Boedker
Vs
Trevor Van Riemsdyk.
Boedker gives more stability in the top 9, could replace Foegele/McGinn on 2nd LW.
TVR gives us more depth on back end.
Meh? A 30 point forward sign for $4M/yr through next season...much rather keep TVR
That's fair. Although I think you're selling him short.
He's been on a 40 point pace for the last 100 games he's played (49 points in last 99 games played).
In his last 8 seasons he has 231 points in 435 games. That's a 43 point pace per 82 over 8 years. He's been a pretty consistently on a 40 point pace.
Would definitely be an upgrade for you guys over McGinn at this point. I would try to play him with Svechnikov maybe, he's a big body and good passer, he could get him the puck. 4M is pretty much what you pay for these players nowadays (Even look at guys like Komarov, Roussel, Beagle). If it really needed to be done I would retain salary so that both teams end up paying the same amount but realistically the value is probably similar (IMO) with their respective salaries.
Not sure about that. McGinn had 30 points last year and led the league in goal posts hit. He brings a decent 2 way game and physicality.
I'm not saying your trade is bad, but I would be upset if it happened
Honestly wasn't aware he had 16 goals and 30 points last year! That's good for you guys... I can see why you wouldn't be thrilled of a TVR for Boedker trade in this case if McGinn can keep it up.
Would you do:
Condon
Boedker/Smith
vs
Darling
TVR
Condon makes less and has one year less.