Movies: Star Wars VIII The Last Jedi, for those who have seen it! (SPOILERS) | Part II

[Tawnos]

I totally interpret that smile at 2:41 differently. And that’s ok

 

[Drytoast]

I totally interpret that smile at 2:41 differently. And that’s ok

And how do you interpret it?

Subversion?

If ROTJ were written by Rian Johnson he would have had that smile meaning that Luke had silently pissed himself...relieving the pressure within his bladder he's held onto all this time, since the throne room!

Subversion!

And you get to hit that Disney joke quota!

Sounds ridiculous I know...but not too far off from this stupid scene

 

[Moon Man]

Because to understand a movie's intentions one needs to watch it several times?

No.

I don't know who the hell was on that rock dressed as an old Luke Skywalker, but it sure as hell wasn't Luke Skywalker.

Subversion. Oh how wonderful a story that was. I loved it so much that I've lost all interest in any future star wars movie!

Subversion!

Subvert:
1) to overturn or overthrow from th foundation: ruin
2) to pervert or corrupt by an undermining of morals, allegiance, or faith

At least they were honest Lol!

 

[Drytoast]

Subvert:
1) to overturn or overthrow from th foundation: ruin
2) to pervert or corrupt by an undermining of morals, allegiance, or faith

At least they were honest Lol!

They didn't put that on the poster though. I wish I would have known that was the intent going in.

But...now I know. I know that I sure as hell don't want to watch any more star wars stories told with Kathleen Kennedy in the captain's chair.

 

[Moon Man]

I totally interpret that smile at 2:41 differently. And that’s ok

I agree %100 with you on the bolded. We are all unique, and that includes our interpretations.

 

[Moon Man]

They didn't put that on the poster though. I wish I would have known that was the intent going in.

But...now I know. I know that I sure as hell don't want to watch any more star wars stories told with Kathleen Kennedy in the captain's chair.

Never say never, but I think I’m done watching any more of these new ones at this point. I don’t really care who they put in charge, the garbage that we got in just two movies has completely destroyed the franchise. Even the Force Awakens was a confusing, poorly written mess to me.

 

[Drytoast]

Hey guys! Remember that well written scene where when Luke realizes that Han isn't with Rei and the Millennium Falcon and asks "Where's Han!?" and instead of getting to share the reaction of Luke being told that his best friend of 30+ years, the husband to his sister and father of his nephew- was murdered...Rian instead subverts our expectations and cuts immediately to a forgettable scene of Ren in an elevator?

SUBVERSION!

 

[Drytoast]

Never say never, but I think I’m done watching any more of these new ones at this point. I don’t really care who they put in charge, the garbage that we got in just two movies has completely destroyed the franchise. Even the Force Awakens was a confusing, poorly written mess to me.

I haven't seen solo but I haven't like any of the new movies. All had forgettable characters and stale plots, and in the case of the last Jedi...it was a complete insult to those fans who grew up with these characters that Rian shat on.

I'll stick with Marvel movies I guess.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I haven't seen solo but I haven't like any of the new movies. All had forgettable characters and stale plots, and in the case of the last Jedi...it was a complete insult to those fans who grew up with these characters that Rian shat on.

I'll stick with Marvel movies I guess.

As someone who hated TLJ, hated R1 and didnt like TFA; I thought Solo wasnt bad. Nothing really great about, other than the special affects of course, but it doesnt hit those lows, imo, that the other Disney Star Wars does, especially their beyond awful attempt at humor

 

[Moon Man]

I haven't seen solo but I haven't like any of the new movies. All had forgettable characters and stale plots, and in the case of the last Jedi...it was a complete insult to those fans who grew up with these characters that Rian shat on.

I'll stick with Marvel movies I guess.

Me neither, it wasn’t even for a “boycott” as so many were calling for on the internet. I just don’t care about these new Star Wars stories anymore. They’re not interesting/entertaining. Now that it’s destroyed, there’s countless other things to do for entertainment.

It is a little fun to watch a sinking ship though. It was the titanic of franchises.

 

[Drytoast]

As someone who hated TLJ, hated R1 and didnt like TFA; I thought Solo wasnt bad. Nothing really great about, other than the special affects of course, but it doesnt hit those lows, imo, that the other Disney Star Wars does, especially their beyond awful attempt at humor

Yeah thats what others have said. I dunno, still doesnt pull me in. Prequels are a hard sell now for me

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Yeah thats what others have said. I dunno, still doesnt pull me in. Prequels are a hard sell now for me

Well I wouldn't say you are missing much but something perhaps you should give a view at some point. I wouldn't recommend to someone who hasnt seen TLJ to watch it, thats for damn sure

 

[Drytoast]

Well I wouldn't say you are missing much but something perhaps you should give a view at some point. I wouldn't recommend to someone who hasnt seen TLJ to watch it, thats for damn sure

I'll get around to seeing it when that head chick is fired from Lucas Film.

Until then no star wars for me!

 

[tacogeoff]

Me neither, it wasn’t even for a “boycott” as so many were calling for on the internet. I just don’t care about these new Star Wars stories anymore. They’re not interesting/entertaining. Now that it’s destroyed, there’s countless other things to do for entertainment.

It is a little fun to watch a sinking ship though. It was the titanic of franchises.

R1 200M production budget 1,056,057,273 Bil Gross

TFA 245M production budget 2,068,223,624 Bil Gross

TLJ 200-250M production budget 1,332,539,889 Bil Gross

Solo estimated 300M production budget 385,128,820M Gross


So they are looking give or take 995 Million in production costs and roughly 4.6 Billion in grosses.


Sure Solo did terrible and just went over breaking even but it was actually a solid film.

I fail to see how it is a sinking ship as it is still can be a cash cow. If we are just talking about films then we have to acknowledge that TLJ sure was not a good film but the rest of the offerings have been good imo. I still don't see how they can't have a bounce back in the next film or at least turn a 600-700 mil profit margin. As long as there is money to be made they will keep coming.

 

[johnjm22]

R1 200M production budget 1,056,057,273 Bil Gross

TFA 245M production budget 2,068,223,624 Bil Gross

TLJ 200-250M production budget 1,332,539,889 Bil Gross

Solo estimated 300M production budget 385,128,820M Gross


So they are looking give or take 995 Million in production costs and roughly 4.6 Billion in grosses.


Sure Solo did terrible and just went over breaking even but it was actually a solid film.

I fail to see how it is a sinking ship as it is still can be a cash cow. If we are just talking about films then we have to acknowledge that TLJ sure was not a good film but the rest of the offerings have been good imo. I still don't see how they can't have a bounce back in the next film or at least turn a 600-700 mil profit margin. As long as there is money to be made they will keep coming.

It depends on how you define "Sinking Ship".

There's still money to be made for sure, but you can bet your ass Disney is VERY concerned about the current state of SW. I don't think anyone expected it to show signs of burning out this quickly.

 

[johnjm22]

Me neither, it wasn’t even for a “boycott” as so many were calling for on the internet. I just don’t care about these new Star Wars stories anymore. They’re not interesting/entertaining.

I think that describes the way a lot of people feel.

There's this narrative on the internet that fans are pissed and are boycotting. In reality, only a small percentage of people out there even care enough to be pissed off and boycott.

The majority of SW viewers are people like my parents (who are in their late 50's). They go to see SW when it comes out because they grew up with it and it's something special; it's an event. They didn't see Solo because they don't care anymore. They, like most people, don't even know there's a boycott. They don't know who Kathleen Kennedy is or that there's a "controversy" about TLJ. The Star Wars 'buzz' has simply worn off for them. I think this describes the feelings of a significant portion of general audiences.

 

[tacogeoff]

It depends on how you define "Sinking Ship".

There's still money to be made for sure, but you can bet your ass Disney is VERY concerned about the current state of SW. I don't think anyone expected it to show signs of burning out this quickly.

A Sinking ship for me is when something is continually failing. They have only had one monetary setback so far and still turned a profit on Solo.

I would hope they would be concerned and thus do everything in their power to insure the next entry into the actually series is well done. TLJ was not good. it was watchable once for me but easily the weakest entry in this new saga of films and I doubt if I will take the time to see it again. Solo on the other hand will be an easy first day purchase.

 

[Osprey]

A Sinking ship for me is when something is continually failing. They have only had one monetary setback so far and still turned a profit on Solo.

Solo hasn't turned a profit. It needs to gross at least $500M worldwide to break even and is at only $385M (two months after release, so it may only barely make it to $400M from its theatrical run).

I'd say that TLJ and Solo make two setbacks. TLJ did well in theaters, yes, but people had to pay to see it before they knew what to think of it. Disney made money with it, but suffered a huge setback in their relationship with the fans, which helped contribute to Solo being a financial setback.

I think that the ship is sinking, so to speak, but, in contrast with that analogy, I think that it's possible to reverse it and get it floating again. They just need to make better films and space them out more. So much rides on Episode IX.

 

[tacogeoff]

Solo hasn't turned a profit. It needs to gross at least $500M worldwide to break even and is at only $385M (two months after release, so it may only barely make it to $400M).

I'd say that TLJ and Solo make two setbacks. TLJ did well in theaters, yes, but people had to pay to see it before they knew what to think of it. Disney made money with it, but suffered a huge setback in their relationship with the fans, which helped contribute to Solo being a financial setback.

I think that the ship is sinking, so to speak, but, in contrast with that analogy, I think that it's possible to reverse it and get it floating again. They just need to make better films and space them out more. So much rides on Episode IX.

My bad. I figured if they were over the estimated production value they may of been ok.

100% agree with that statement. I'm actually surprised that TLJ was able to rack up 80M in bluray/dvd sales domestically.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out and if they can rebound or not.

 

[Moon Man]

R1 200M production budget 1,056,057,273 Bil Gross

TFA 245M production budget 2,068,223,624 Bil Gross

TLJ 200-250M production budget 1,332,539,889 Bil Gross

Solo estimated 300M production budget 385,128,820M Gross


So they are looking give or take 995 Million in production costs and roughly 4.6 Billion in grosses.


Sure Solo did terrible and just went over breaking even but it was actually a solid film.

I fail to see how it is a sinking ship as it is still can be a cash cow. If we are just talking about films then we have to acknowledge that TLJ sure was not a good film but the rest of the offerings have been good imo. I still don't see how they can't have a bounce back in the next film or at least turn a 600-700 mil profit margin. As long as there is money to be made they will keep coming.

All of those production budgets do not include a massive substantial expense, and that is marketing and advertising. These movies spend hundreds of millions (each) on marketing their products. The new Solo movie lost Disney millions of dollars. Another expense of Disney’s is merchandise funding, I’m not 100% sure if this has been profitable for them, but I’ve seen a few videos posted online on YouTube of people walking around various toy stores and seeing (today) TFA action figures on clearance. Other videos showing just one week after Solo, the Solo figures being clearanced. Some people show videos of (once) $20 figures you can go out and get for a buck. I don’t buy it personally, but some people say Star Wars is a big reason ToysRUs is in such financial turmoil. Anyways, big thing is though, there are loads more expenses for a film/franchise than a production budget.

I saw in another post, you said for Star Wars to be a considered a sinking ship, you had to see a visible downward trend. Look at the figures you posted for gross profit chronologically:

TFA: 2.068 >>> R1: 1.055 < TLJ: 1.33 >>>>> S: 0.385

Right after TFA they hit the iceberg. The lower decks are currently being flooded.

 

[johnjm22]

The promo budgets on these films are probably about 150M+ each. Also the gross revenues from ticket sales are split with the theaters. Out of the 385M Solo has grossed, I bet only about 250M or so has gone to Disney. Possibly less.

Solo needs to make more than 500M to break even on its theatrical run.

 

[tacogeoff]

All of those production budgets do not include a massive substantial expense, and that is marketing and advertising. These movies spend hundreds of millions (each) on marketing their products. The new Solo movie lost Disney millions of dollars. Another expense of Disney’s is merchandise funding, I’m not 100% sure if this has been profitable for them, but I’ve seen a few videos posted online on YouTube of people walking around various toy stores and seeing (today) TFA action figures on clearance. Other videos showing just one week after Solo, the Solo figures being clearanced. Some people show videos of (once) $20 figures you can go out and get for a buck. I don’t buy it personally, but some people say Star Wars is a big reason ToysRUs is in such financial turmoil. Anyways, big thing is though, there are loads more expenses for a film/franchise than a production budget.

I saw in another post, you said for Star Wars to be a considered a sinking ship, you had to see a visible downward trend. Look at the figures you posted for gross profit chronologically:

TFA: 2.068 >>> R1: 1.055 < TLJ: 1.33 >>>>> S: 0.385

Right after TFA they hit the iceberg. The lower decks are currently being flooded.

So true.

TFA may of been a bit of a freak out of the gate due to the hype of the return of star wars. TLJ or R1 should be more normalizing numbers imo.

Solo got hammered at the box office for sure.

The boat is floating well ...almost to good to be true (TFA), oh we have a pinhole leak (R1), no worries we will just patch it up (TLJ), oh crap we hit a reef and are leaking badly (S). Its up to the next one to see if the solo response is going to be constant. Maybe it will turn into more of seesaw (never understood why it was called that) as it seems to be going up and down.

 

[Osprey]

My bad. I figured if they were over the estimated production value they may of been ok.

It's a common mistake. Gross is the total taken in by theaters and then they have to give a percentage back to the studios that made the films. That percentage is about 55% for domestic theaters and only 15% for international theaters. The rule of thumb is that a film needs to gross at least double its production value to turn a profit, and that's assuming no marketing costs.

As of yesterday, Solo has grossed $212M domestically and $173M internationally. That's about (212 * 0.55) + (173 * 0.15) = $142.5M that has gone back into Disney's pockets. That's still a long ways from the $275M production budget, and even further away from profitability if you assume at least $100M in marketing. BluRay/streaming sales and the like will help, but it may never quite break even. Maybe Disney can count it as a loss on their taxes, though; haha.

 

[tacogeoff]

It's a common mistake. Gross is the total taken in by theaters and then they have to give a percentage back to the studios that made the films. That percentage is about 55% for domestic theaters and only 15% for international theaters. The rule of thumb is that a film needs to gross at least double its production value to turn a profit, and that's assuming no marketing costs.

As of yesterday, Solo has grossed $212M domestically and $173M internationally. That's about (212 * 0.55) + (173 * 0.15) = $142.5M that has gone back into Disney's pockets. That's still a long ways from the $275M production budget, and even further away from profitability if you assume at least $100M in marketing. BluRay/streaming sales and the like will help, but it may never quite break even. Maybe Disney can count it as a loss on their taxes, though; haha.

Ouch ya that hurts. Due to past film successes, past toy success and their video game sales (licencing agreement) they should be able to easily absorb the hit though. Obviously it stings but its nothing that is going to cripple them.

 

[Moon Man]

So true.

TFA may of been a bit of a freak out of the gate due to the hype of the return of star wars. TLJ or R1 should be more normalizing numbers imo.

Solo got hammered at the box office for sure.

The boat is floating well ...almost to good to be true (TFA), oh we have a pinhole leak (R1), no worries we will just patch it up (TLJ), oh crap we hit a reef and are leaking badly (S). Its up to the next one to see if the solo response is going to be constant. Maybe it will turn into more of seesaw (never understood why it was called that) as it seems to be going up and down.

Yeah, I agree that more movies are needed to see if the trend continues, or if TLJ/R1 are the constant. I do also agree that hype was a massive reason for the great success of TFA (like you’re suggesting, it may just be the outlier). One thing that may suggest otherwise is the growth of these marvel movies (Infinity War surpassing the success of TFA), but they are two different franchises and we can interpret the growing success of one and the falling of the other in different ways.

I’m of the opinion though, that right now, the once great and unsinkable franchise, is going down fast and hard. That’s not to say that I don’t think that there are things that they can do to right the ship (weld the holes/pump out the water), but I think that those things that need to be done are massive. Some even say they need to come out and apologize/“retcon” for everything, Lol. I don’t think that would be fair to everyone who has enjoyed these new movies though.

Worst case scenario for Disney (continued downward trend from Solo), and if they don’t let their pride get in the way, they can always continue to make substantially lower budget Star Wars films. This would keep the people that enjoy them happy. I’m actually mildly curious to hear about all the new force powers they would have invented, say 10 films down the line. It could get pretty crazy Lol!