Movies: Star Wars VIII The Last Jedi, for those who have seen it! (SPOILERS) | Part II

[Pilky01]

Less women in prominent roles telling men to pipe down and think.

In this respect TLJ feels like a 'baby's first feminist statement' kind of art piece. Its just so obvious and juvenile. I feel like it would have been a much, much better movie if it had just been written/directed by a woman.

It makes me cringe to think about how a man might have directed Wonder Woman, or how a white person might have directed Get Out.

 

[Emperoreddy]

On paper, I think I agree. However I would have been livid if the movie ended like that.

If they wanted the movie to end like that, which again would be fine, the movie would have to be completely overhauled from start to finish.

At which point I wonder if it's fair to claim: "this movie should have ended here rather than 30 minutes later".

I will give you that it definitely would have set up Episode IX better. TLJ toys with the idea of a reboot of sorts but in the end doesn't go through with it and sets up IX as "expected good guys vs expected bad guys fighting for control of the galaxy" which certainly is a bit of a let down.

I must be in the absolute minority but I loved Luke showing up how he did. Pulls the ultimate defensive move (Jedi uses the Force for defense and knowledge, never for attack!) and saves everyone. I found that to be a very satisfying conclusion to his arc in the movie.

I don't think he needed to die though but whatever, it's not a big deal to me.



Less women in prominent roles telling men to pipe down and think.

The Prequels did build on the little lore we had in the Original Trilogy and was far more ambitious with it's plot and characters than the Sequel Trilogy so far. I will give them that.

I mean were they really more ambitious? I don’t think they took any of the younger versions of characters are taken in bold new directions. They are all rather wooden. New lore characters maybe even more wooden.

The best new characters from this timeline were either fleshed out, or introduced outside the movies.

Actually watching the trilogy movies is like waiting in line or sitting in traffic. It is really boring and tedious and I always end up with a stress headache.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

In this respect TLJ feels like a 'baby's first feminist statement' kind of art piece. Its just so obvious and juvenile. I feel like it would have been a much, much better movie if it had just been written/directed by a woman.

I think it was clear the movie wanted you to think Holdo was a mole/traitor and it worked decently. Granted it is probably too "mechanical" for the average viewer (she needs to be that way for Poe's arc to work rather than her making sense on her own) but whatever, it's a blockbuster movie.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I mean were they really more ambitious? I don’t think they took any of the younger versions of characters are taken in bold new directions. They are all rather wooden. New lore characters maybe even more wooden.

The best new characters from this timeline were either fleshed out, or introduced outside the movies.

Actually watching the trilogy movies is like waiting in line or sitting in traffic. It is really boring and tedious and I always end up with a stress headache.

Well the Prequels actually showed us the galaxy and how it worked before the Empire, in terms of world-building the Prequels were far more ambitious than TFA and TLJ.

It wasn't super deep but it was a bit more than just "Here are the good guys. Here are the bad guys. Now watch them fight". We didn't get any real world-building in the OT or the ST (Sequel Trilogy) outside of a few lines dialogue here and there.

I'm not saying the PT was any good mind you, the only not horrible one is RotS and even that one is barely above mediocre.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Well the Prequels actually showed us the galaxy and how it worked before the Empire, in terms of world-building the Prequels were far more ambitious than TFA and TLJ.

It wasn't super deep but it was a bit more than just "Here are the good guys. Here are the bad guys. Now watch them fight". We didn't get any real world-building in the OT or the ST (Sequel Trilogy) outside of a few lines dialogue here and there.

I'm not saying the PT was any good mind you, the only not horrible one is RotS and even that one is barely above mediocre.

Ehhh even that is superficial at best for me. They introduce the Trade Federation, but never explain what they actually do, or why blockading planets illegally makes sense.

They introduce Separatists and a Civil War, but never explain why they exist. Just that they do, and robots bad, clones good...maybe? Then of course it knocks down any idea of grey by making the Emperor behind it all.

We are the Jedi, but they are nothing more then celibate monks who sit around and wave light swords around. We never deep dive into the dogma and why it might be flawed. Movies only toy with that idea on a very superficial level, and then toss it aside back to black and white morality.

So yeah it did introduce new locations and parts of the world only previously mentioned in title crawls, but nothing was actually built. It was all just there. We just filled the gaps in with our head canon, or with all the EU stuff that flooded the market. So in the end it was no better then “here are good guys, here are bad guys, fight”

I guess the larger point is all 8 of these movies are really rather shallow. Which honestly can be fine. It worked great for the OT. I think it was fine for TFW too. I guess the prequels tried to be a bit deeper and more ambitious, but it was done so lazily that it just created a shit pile. TLJ tried to do it a bit too with the galaxy abandoning the resistance, and introducing an industrial military complex, but it was all ham/fisted and shoddy that it doesn’t work either.

The new trilogies big problem to me seems to be it doesn’t know what it wants to do. Does it want to play it safe? Does it want to do something new? No one seems to know, because it is obvious there was no plan put forth before filming began.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yes the execution was bad but there was still a desire to flesh out the universe and Lucas acted on it. That's why I'd say the PT was pretty ambitious (for Star Wars I suppose being the caveat)

 

[x Tame Impala]

TLJ was a disaster of a movie and the writing decisions were so bad they probably ruined episode 9 as well, but anyone saying the prequels were better is being way too dramatic.

They were horrible, horrible movies. Could've been anything, and they needed up being trash

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

What makes the prequels more Star Wars than TLJ?

This take has always been so peculiar to me.

How about a lightsaber fight for start, isnt that something that makes Star Wars Star Wars? Two ships chasing after each other running low on fuel isnt Star Wars at all, you actually think that it is?

 

[Pilky01]

I think it was clear the movie wanted you to think Holdo was a mole/traitor and it worked decently. Granted it is probably too "mechanical" for the average viewer (she needs to be that way for Poe's arc to work rather than her making sense on her own) but whatever, it's a blockbuster movie.

Maybe I was just too aware of the machinations behind the scene but I never thought for a second that Holdo was anything other than what she was presented as; a graceful and self-sacrificing female authority figure tasked with reining in undisciplined 'flyboy' Poe.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

How about a lightsaber fight for start, isnt that something that makes Star Wars Star Wars? Two ships chasing after each other running low on fuel isnt Star Wars at all, you actually think that it is?

Do the lightsabers have to tough in a fight involving them?

It had everything you would expect from a Star Wars movie, and had a much better look of the franchise than the PT did.

 

[Osprey]

Talk about the pacing and where the film should've ended has gotten me thinking about how I might've re-worked the last half of the film. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking that I would have:

* Cut out the whole Canto Bight side plot, stripping the movie from 2:30 down to a more bearable 2:10 or less.
* Luke sense that Leia is near death and leave the island with Rey to go to her.
* Leia die (only because it's the most logical, with Carrie Fisher passing) and everyone look to Luke for leadership.
* The Rey and Kylo throne room scene take place during (rather than before) the Battle of Crait, with the film cutting between the two, similar to how RotJ cut between Luke/Vader/Emperor and the Endor and space battles. That makes it feel more like the film's co-climax and preserves Kylo's dignity as a villain (because he doesn't go mad on Crait and then get humiliated by Luke).
* Luke provide the distraction for the Resistance to escape with his actual physical presence and his old lightsaber. Holding off dozens of First Order troopers could've been a cool display of just how powerful he is, kind of like Vader at the end of Rogue One, and would've been a more glorious death... or his fate could've been left ambiguous for a possible return in the next film.
* The film end either on a cliffhanger with Rey not yet giving Kylo an answer or after escaping and meeting up with the fleeing Resistance. Either way, it eliminates the dumb boulder lifting that makes Rey an overpowered hero too soon.

Obviously, a few other things would have to be accounted for and those wouldn't have solved all of the film's problems, but I think that a second half along those lines would've gone over better with fans and made for a slightly more satisfying and better-paced film.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Do the lightsabers have to tough in a fight involving them?

It had everything you would expect from a Star Wars movie, and had a much better look of the franchise than the PT did.

One thing I can’t complain about at all is the look of these movies. I think the aesthetics have been fantastic, and it is refreshing to see a Star Wars movie filmed on locations again too.

On Holdo, I never for a second believed she was a mole. I get they were trying to lay down an arc with Poe, but it creates the comedy of errors in the larger plot. The plot as a whole would have went smoother if they just had Holdo he more upfront and find a different way to progress Poe’s arc.

Maybe one fix would have been the fleet splitting up at the beginning, but the lead ships keep pursing Leia because Kylo senses her on there. So you don’t have the issue of everyone getting on and off the main chase, and you can create obstacles instead of mistakes by making communication difficult or things like that.

Would solve the only 12 people survive nonsense too. Poe’s arc is more disobeying orders to try and save Leia, while Holdo wants to honor her sacrifice or something.

 

[Shockmaster]

Do the lightsabers have to tough in a fight involving them?

It had everything you would expect from a Star Wars movie, and had a much better look of the franchise than the PT did.

Not really considering the basis of it was Luke coming close to killing his nephew in his sleep. Given how hard Luke tried to redeem his father (who was way more evil for much longer than Ben Solo was), it made no sense for them to take Luke in that direction.

 

[Shockmaster]

Talk about the pacing and where the film should've ended has gotten me thinking about how I might've re-worked the last half of the film. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking that I would have:

* Cut out the whole Canto Bight side plot, stripping the movie from 2:30 down to a more bearable 2:10 or less.
* Luke sense that Leia is near death and leave the island with Rey to go to her.
* Leia die (only because it's the most logical, with Carrie Fisher passing) and everyone look to Luke for leadership.
* The Rey and Kylo throne room scene take place during (rather than before) the Battle of Crait, with the film cutting between the two, similar to how RotJ cut between Luke/Vader/Emperor and the Endor and space battles. That makes it feel more like the film's co-climax and preserves Kylo's dignity as a villain (because he doesn't go mad on Crait and then get humiliated by Luke).
* Luke provide the distraction for the Resistance to escape with his actual physical presence and his old lightsaber. Holding off dozens of First Order troopers could've been a cool display of just how powerful he is, kind of like Vader at the end of Rogue One, and would've been a more glorious death... or his fate could've been left ambiguous for a possible return in the next film.
* The film end either on a cliffhanger with Rey not yet giving Kylo an answer or after escaping and meeting up with the fleeing Resistance. Either way, it eliminates the dumb boulder lifting that makes Rey an overpowered hero too soon.

Obviously, a few other things would have to be accounted for and those wouldn't have solved all of the film's problems, but I think that a second half along those lines would've gone over better with fans and made for a slightly more satisfying and better-paced film.

Doing the bolded basically removes Rose from the movie (not that I have a problem with that).

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Not really considering the basis of it was Luke coming close to killing his nephew in his sleep. Given how hard Luke tried to redeem his father (who was way more evil for much longer than Ben Solo was), it made no sense for them to take Luke in that direction.

That isn't what I was even talking about and it has been explained countless times why that is believable for Luke to have done that.

 

[Shockmaster]

That isn't what I was even talking about and it has been explained countless times why that is believable for Luke to have done that.

Okay, but that doesn't mean they were good explanations.

Sorry, but it's hard to buy how Luke would run head first through a brick wall to save his Sith Lord father after 20 years of evil, then think about killing his confused teenage nephew in his sleep when he hadn't done anything evil up to that point.

 

[Drytoast]

I tried to rewatch this pile of steam for the second time last night. I got all the way to Luke being handed his father's lightsaber and as soon as he tosses it, I shut netflix down.

 

[Shockmaster]

Episode IX is going to be in a tough spot. Not only does it have to tell it's own story, but it also has to explain a lot of things that should have been explained in The Last Jedi.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Do the lightsabers have to tough in a fight involving them?

It had everything you would expect from a Star Wars movie, and had a much better look of the franchise than the PT did.

Do you have to fight with lightsabers for it to be a lightsaber fight? Yes

 

[offkilter]

The stupidity of The Last Jedi can be summed up with the fact that Rose and Finn condemned hundreds of resistance members to die all because they illegally parked on a beach. Pretty much none of the third act happens if they don't do that.

Oh they were in a hurry you say? They sure had time to stand together on a balcony and wax poetic about how pretty yet horrible the planet is or how child slavery and animal cruelty is wrong instead of finding the RIGHT hacker they were sent there for.

 

[Osprey]

The stupidity of The Last Jedi can be summed up with the fact that Rose and Finn condemned hundreds of resistance members to die all because they illegally parked on a beach. Pretty much none of the third act happens if they don't do that.

Oh they were in a hurry you say? They sure had time to stand together on a balcony and wax poetic about how pretty yet horrible the planet is or how child slavery and animal cruelty is wrong instead of finding the RIGHT hacker they were sent there for.

Finn should've dropped Rose off at the entrance and given her a head start in the search while he parked the car. Not thinking of such a basic element of working as a couple doesn't give me much hope for their relationship.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Do you have to fight with lightsabers for it to be a lightsaber fight? Yes

People did...

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Don't they usually just tow illegally parked cars? If the fine isn't paid then they auction off the vehicle.

 

[Shockmaster]

Don't they usually just tow illegally parked cars? If the fine isn't paid then they auction off the vehicle.

Well you know they usually let the occupants talk about animal rights and spend several minutes staring out into the night sky from a balcony before towing illegally parked vehicles.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

How did that guy even recognize them