Should Holland be fired?

Should Holland be fired?


  • Total voters
    463
Oct 15, 2008
40,452
5,472
I don't remember who it was but a petition should be started so that naysayer who didn't like the Looch trade has to be renamed "HollandIsGod"


PS-Nothing personal just making wisecracks in a semi-serious fashion
It’s probably a good idea to holster some of that enthusiasm for the dark days of mid October when people like Jaded Dog start making Lottery threads. You dont want to fire all your bullets before prom night.
 

OilerTitanFan

Registered User
Feb 26, 2019
4,619
1,327
Bob Nicholson needed to be fired on April 20, 2015. 2nd worst executive in Oilers history, right behind the pile of lard he hired to be GM.
I bet if MacT was GM, this team would not have made any trades, held onto chumps like Hall, Eberle and Pouliot. This team may also have Barzal and whatever garbage, maybe Sebastian Aho with that second pick. So the defence never gets fixed. Would this team be a playoff team with McD, Drai, Hall, Eberle, Pouliot, Barzal and Aho? I also think MacT would have added Demers at the time and not have the ability to dish out contracts to Sekera, Russell and Lucic. So basically a top pairing of Demers and Klefbom, Nurse and whomever on the 2nd pair.

The way our prospects develop, I bet Barzal and Aho might have ended up becoming career minor-leaguers.

I also think that if we got the 4th pick and JP was there on our laps, MacT would have been "stupid" (at the time) to walk up and pick Sergachev and pass on JP and this board explodes and threatens MacT to resign.
 

Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
12,013
11,524
There seems to be a lot of backlash over what Holland has done the past couple of days and during the draft.

So it needs to be asked. Should Holland be fired over what has transpired over the last few weeks?


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

U still want him fired? Let the people who know what they are doing do their job before you put these BS blogs out there
 

CupofOil

Knob Flavored Coffey
Aug 20, 2009
46,758
40,529
NYC
Trading Lucic or Neal with or without a NMC is a moot point. No one, NO ONE takes a 6mill player as their 13th forward. Which both are at this point in their career.

We only have 3 forwards worth protecting in the expansion draft. Mooooooooooooot.
There's a lot to address in your post and I didn't even quote the stuff about you saying that Lucic is a better skater, better defensively etc., stuff which is pretty much a wash with these players.

For one, a NMC severely restricts who you can trade a player to. Without that ridiculous NMC, the Oilers can deal Neal anywhere they want to whenever they want to. With Lucic, he had to approve the trade. Not to mention that his caphit is slightly less. That's trade flexibility 101.

The expansion draft isn't moooooot and it doesn't matter how loudly you yell moot because you're wrong. It doesn't matter what the roster looks like today, the expansion draft is TWO full seasons away so the Oilers now have more options to add to the team without the worry of being forced to protect an extra player or even worse, give Seattle a giant sweetener to take him.
That's expansion draft flexibility 101.

The buyout on Neal is a lot more team friendly than it is on Lucic in the first 3 years when the real cap squeeze is on so while not a great option if he stinks it up next season, it's better than not being an option which was the case with Lucic.
That's buyout flexibility 101.

Even if the on ice contribution is a wash, this trade is a win for the Oilers. If Neal resorts back to being a top 6 level goal scorer for a year or two, it's a big win. You'd have to look really hard and dig deep into a bag of negativity to see a problem with this trade.
There's virtually no downside to this trade outside of Lucic retiring early and letting the Flames off the hook which would be a huge kick in the nuts but not something the Flames should count on. I guess the retention could be seen as a negative but 500K cap for the next 4 years is a small price to pay to rid of Milan NMC Lucic.
 

North Cole

♧ Lem
Jan 22, 2017
11,424
12,730
These are all examples of over rationalization to put a positive spin on a bad situation.

Buying out Neal at 2.75ish mill for 4-6 years at the end of next year would be a bad use of cap space. Short sighted and foolish. I ****ing want at least a couple years with zero ****ing buyouts clogging our ability to field a true cup contender. At some point our GMs, Coaching, and the team just need to take what we have and make it work.

The expansion draft spin is ridiculous. We have three forwards we currently need to protect. It does not matter if we were forced to protect Lucic.

If Neal continues to suck Seattle won't take him, we can't trade him, buying him out hurts prime McDavid years, AND we are paying him MORE than we were Lucic...

Seriously. This was not a "good" trade on paper. Sideways move is being reasonable. With an outside chance of being good IF Neal returns to form.

Goalscoring in itself does not = winning. Neal can score 30 next year and make the team worse. The Oilers relative goal scoring last year was "okish" it's their team defense that stank. Which Neal will not help.

Everything you said is an over rationalization to spin a good situation into a bad one. You're just plain wrong. If neal continues to suck, we continue to have a player who sucks for an extra 750k that we have the flexibility to move. Seattle doesnt have much choice unless they want to take some other AHL player.

Acting like 750k is going to make or break this team is laughable. Toronto paid 1m for a pick, I'd happily pay 750 to see no hands Lucic go away. Intangibles does not = winning. He cant score 30 an make us worse, that's some next level conspiracy talk...

What did Lucic bring that = winning? Cause I didnt see much winning last year unless wunderkid and the red baron were scoring 3pts a night
 
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KCC

Registered User
Aug 15, 2007
18,367
9,308
No, he's succeed in his first offseason and has done a lot to steer this team in the right direction
I like that he's not handing out really stupid contracts. Short and sweet deals, trying to build a bottom 6 with whatever money Chiarelli left him (which was nothing). It's when more money gets freed up that we will see what he does. That's where my interest lies.
 

Vagabond

Registered User
Dec 24, 2004
9,146
3,841
Edmonton
I bet if MacT was GM, this team would not have made any trades, held onto chumps like Hall, Eberle and Pouliot. This team may also have Barzal and whatever garbage, maybe Sebastian Aho with that second pick. So the defence never gets fixed. Would this team be a playoff team with McD, Drai, Hall, Eberle, Pouliot, Barzal and Aho? I also think MacT would have added Demers at the time and not have the ability to dish out contracts to Sekera, Russell and Lucic. So basically a top pairing of Demers and Klefbom, Nurse and whomever on the 2nd pair.

The way our prospects develop, I bet Barzal and Aho might have ended up becoming career minor-leaguers.

I also think that if we got the 4th pick and JP was there on our laps, MacT would have been "stupid" (at the time) to walk up and pick Sergachev and pass on JP and this board explodes and threatens MacT to resign.

I'm not going to defend MacT but he definitely would've done a better job than Chia. That being said, I'm happy with Holland. Chia will go down as The worst GM in Oilers organizational history. Hopefully. :laugh: He smashed Gretzky like records that will never be beaten. Lol MacT did get us McDavid tho with his glory of hiring Dallas Freaking Eakens. Katz just couldn't get it right until now.
 

OilerTitanFan

Registered User
Feb 26, 2019
4,619
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I'm not going to defend MacT but he definitely would've done a better job than Chia. That being said, I'm happy with Holland. Chia will go down as The worst GM in Oilers organizational history. Hopefully. :laugh: He smashed Gretzky like records that will never be beaten. Lol MacT did get us McDavid tho with his glory of hiring Dallas Freaking Eakens. Katz just couldn't get it right until now.
Mact would've done a better job and that is a whole lot of nothing on the trade front. MacT would have definitely gone to the podium to pick again after the McDavid pick. The crazy thing is he would've tried to move up and throw in a 3rd to pick Jake Debrusk and continue the old boys club regime. In the 2016 draft, I believe MacT and the scouts were also eyeing on Nick Merkley and that would've been the legit 3 pick in the first round. He'd probably want to unite Merkley with Draisaitl. I am also certain that he would reach for Sergachev and pass on JP and this board will blow up sky high. JP turns into an all-star with the Flames.

There was no way he would be able to sign Lucic even if he offered 7mil 7 yrs. Lucic would be like Mac who? Lucic would be a Canuck then and now.

I was disappointed when MacT wasn't given the opportunity to stay as GM with the McDavid draft.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
33,071
12,810
I like that he's not handing out really stupid contracts. Short and sweet deals, trying to build a bottom 6 with whatever money Chiarelli left him (which was nothing). It's when more money gets freed up that we will see what he does. That's where my interest lies.

100%
Holland has positioned this team really well for after next season when they will have a ton of cap space.
They also will have no issue what so ever with the expansion draft.
 
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Joey Moss

Registered User
Aug 29, 2008
36,161
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The Lucic deal changed the complexion of the team. Just an incredible deal. That saved the off-season for me.

Not a fan of the Smith signing or Sekera buyout.

Obviously shouldn't be fired. Seems like he's setting up for next season.
 

nexttothemoon

and again...
Jan 30, 2010
29,592
16,854
Northern AB
I don't mind the Smith signing (was slightly negative when he was 1st signed because like many others I would have preferred a younger option).

Saying that... I know most say he's old and possibly breaking down and he's coming off his worst season basically in his entire career BUT he played much better in the 2nd half of the year and was essentially all the Flames had going for them in the playoffs. Avs fans even remarked at how well he played in the playoffs and he was the only reason they didn't get blown out even worse.

He has only had 2 seasons below 91% in the past 8... and he's well known by Tippett so I think the chances of him bouncing back and being at least a solid backup is actually pretty good. I think there's a decent chance he steals the starter job as well.

It's a 1 year deal and the $$$ isn't insane... guaranteed $2 million and bonuses taking it as high as $3.75 million if they make the playoffs.

If they do make the playoffs.. Smith has been a beast there in the past with a 93.8% sv pct in his 24 career playoff games so that's some value as well.

Plus he's an asshole... and the team can use less nice guys on the team who tend to just bend over and take defeat... Smith at least should be a diver in net and will likely get a few more calls going the Oilers way because he isn't afraid to embellish and whine/bitch to the refs. :)
 
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Tyrolean

Registered User
Feb 1, 2004
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I don't mind the Smith signing (was slightly negative when he was 1st signed because like many others I would have preferred a younger option).

Saying that... I know most say he's old and possibly breaking down and he's coming off his worst season basically in his entire career BUT he played much better in the 2nd half of the year and was essentially all the Flames had going for them in the playoffs. Avs fans even remarked at how well he played in the playoffs and he was the only reason they didn't get blown out even worse.

He has only had 2 seasons below 91% in the past 8... and he's well known by Tippett so I think the chances of him bouncing back and being at least a solid backup is actually pretty good. I think there's a decent chance he steals the starter job as well.

It's a 1 year deal and the $$$ isn't insane... guaranteed $2 million and bonuses taking it as high as $3.75 million if they make the playoffs.

If they do make the playoffs.. Smith has been a beast there in the past with a 93.8% sv pct in his 24 career playoff games so that's some value as well.

Plus he's an *******... and the team can use less nice guys on the team who tend to just bend over and take defeat... Smith at least should be a diver in net and will likely get a few more calls going the Oilers way because he isn't afraid to embellish and whine/***** to the refs. :)
I'd rather have gone with a younger goalie tbh. Oilers probably not making the playoffs next season so it's better to break in a new younger goalie.
 

Bangers

Registered User
May 31, 2006
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I'd rather have gone with a younger goalie tbh. Oilers probably not making the playoffs next season so it's better to break in a new younger goalie.

I see it the opposite way. With no Sekera, the Oil's D is going to be pretty young - Russell is a vet, and Klefbom/Larsson should be coming into their prime, but Benning and Nurse are still pretty young and the team will likely have to break in 2-3 of the prospects over the course of the year due to injuries/play.

Two things I like about Smith are that he's a vet who can help command the back, and he's already the Oilers' best puck mover from the back.
 
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Oilers in NS

Registered User
Oct 11, 2017
12,013
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Fired????? He should have a statue of him standing over the corpse of Lucic next to the Gretzky statue.

Agreed 100%. These idiots putting these blogs out about firing him should be fired from Oilernation
Let the people who know what they are doing do the job
 

McShogun99

Registered User
Aug 30, 2009
17,901
13,386
Edmonton
100%
Holland has positioned this team really well for after next season when they will have a ton of cap space.
They also will have no issue what so ever with the expansion draft.

I think the plan for this year is to use it as an "evaluation" year with the team going after a big name UFA next off season. There were reports that Holland had a meeting with Mcdavid to let him know what his plans are and that Mcdavid was on board. We have 9 players going UFA next off season and 24+ million in cap space with only Nurse as the big RFA to sign.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
33,071
12,810
I think the plan for this year is to use it as an "evaluation" year with the team going after a big name UFA next off season. There were reports that Holland had a meeting with Mcdavid to let him know what his plans are and that Mcdavid was on board. We have 9 players going UFA next off season and 24+ million in cap space with only Nurse as the big RFA to sign.

I havent heard this...anything you can post?
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
75,488
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Alberta
I like that he's not handing out really stupid contracts. Short and sweet deals, trying to build a bottom 6 with whatever money Chiarelli left him (which was nothing). It's when more money gets freed up that we will see what he does. That's where my interest lies.
He got Lucic off this team, I think many truly underestimate how huge that is for the cap, the franchise and it's flexibility going forward.
 

Smartguy

Registered User
May 3, 2010
4,000
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Edmonton
He got Lucic off this team, I think many truly underestimate how huge that is for the cap, the franchise and it's flexibility going forward.

Agreed that is a huge move going forward for cap flexibility, as Neal can be bought out at least. But he hasn’t really added anything significant to a roster that finished in the bottom 10 last year. Unless Neal can return to form our forward group looks horrendous, possibly the worst we have ever dressed. Which unreal to say with Mcdavid. Our D has a lot of question marks around Nurse and our young guys, even if Klefbom and Larsson can return to being a top pair?

Our goaltending we are virtually praying that Koskinen can fix what ailed him to end the year, and that smiths season wasn’t the beginning of the end last year.

As much as I love the Lucic trade, I wouldn’t be putting up a statue for Holland for his offseason in any way
 

MoontoScott

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
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So far I get the notion that Holland is quite measured in terms of his response and realizes that making serious deals is a process that takes time and patience. I'm sure that the Lucic trade was a case of having to "work on" the opposing GM for a while to make him see the virtues of the trade. It's just a guess but the Flames probably wanted a bigger chunk of the Lucic salary to be retained by the Oilers when the process started.

In contrast, Chia had a rep (even before joining the Oilers) of pulling the trigger on major trades without really thinking of the long term consequences. The instant gratification type, something like the teenager who spends 50K on a used corvette to impress a girl he met at the prom.

As incompetent as he was, Chia had to know that by year 3 or 4 of his contract that Lucic would be in serious decline and that the cap hit with a NMO would be a serious encumbrance. Likewise, he had to know that the Hall trade didn't have a great return and that it was a gamble that didn't look good down the road. Similar story for the Seguin trade before he got to the Oilers clubhouse.

The best executives in any business are the ones who can look down the road and see what is likely to happen in response to major moves. Of course that is very difficult to do but good managers get paid to do this because its a special skill. Not many people have it.

I saw no such ability with Chia but so far I think that Holland looks like a guy who can put the bigger picture together over the longer term. We shall see. Oh and "no" don't fire him.
 

Aerchon

Registered User
Jul 20, 2011
10,517
3,708
So far I get the notion that Holland is quite measured in terms of his response and realizes that making serious deals is a process that takes time and patience. I'm sure that the Lucic trade was a case of having to "work on" the opposing GM for a while to make him see the virtues of the trade. It's just a guess but the Flames probably wanted a bigger chunk of the Lucic salary to be retained by the Oilers when the process started.

In contrast, Chia had a rep (even before joining the Oilers) of pulling the trigger on major trades without really thinking of the long term consequences. The instant gratification type, something like the teenager who spends 50K on a used corvette to impress a girl he met at the prom.

As incompetent as he was, Chia had to know that by year 3 or 4 of his contract that Lucic would be in serious decline and that the cap hit with a NMO would be a serious encumbrance. Likewise, he had to know that the Hall trade didn't have a great return and that it was a gamble that didn't look good down the road. Similar story for the Seguin trade before he got to the Oilers clubhouse.

The best executives in any business are the ones who can look down the road and see what is likely to happen in response to major moves. Of course that is very difficult to do but good managers get paid to do this because its a special skill. Not many people have it.

I saw no such ability with Chia but so far I think that Holland looks like a guy who can put the bigger picture together over the longer term. We shall see. Oh and "no" don't fire him.

I see none of what you say in Holland from his time in Detroit or his brief time on the Oilers.

Here he has increased the cap hit we were paying Lucic and Sekera over the next 4 years in a attempt to get better now.

I will wait and see how it turns out but Holland is being severely and legitimately criticized for his work on the Oilers so far by everyone not an oiler fan just happy to see Lucic go.
 

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