Seth Jones or Patrik Laine

[elmaco]

Jones might be the better pick now, Laine >>> Jones when peaked.

 

[bsu]

Jones might be the better pick now, Laine >>> Jones when peaked.

Thats extreme.... And false.

 

[David Suzuki]

There are very few players who play the wing who are better then a top pairing D and Laine is one of them.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Goal scoring is important, but there's more to hockey than scoring goals. Laine brings one thing. Let me know when he gets more than 50 assists (hasn't even reach 30 yet) or he does 50 in 50. All he has proven that he's on the same level as Rick Nash.

I can't imagine what's going on in some peoples head.

Firstly, goal scoring is the most important attribute to hockey, how you win games is by scoring(you can argue Defence is important as well but you can’t win a game playing Defence only all night).. So it’s kindof common sense there.

Laine is 3rd all time in Teenage Goal Scoring, he’s got 44 as a 19 year old, he has only 16.30 minutes per game while still maintaining himself in the playoffs. So that’s what is in people’s heads.

 

[Dumais]

more stats? cool story bro

 

[ulvvf]

Laine and it is not even remotly close, i would take 1 laine over 2 Jones, i can not find any argument for Jones at all. Laine is much more of game-changer than Jones is, and it is also extremly clear if you just look at team result that d-men are silly overrated in general.

 

[Dumais]

Laine and it is not even remotly close, i would take 1 laine over 2 Jones, i can not find any argument for Jones at all. Laine is much more of game-changer than Jones is, and it is also extremly clear if you just look at team result that d-men are silly overrated in general.

This right here (see previous comment)
I feel the exact opposite. Outside of goal scoring (duh winger vs dman) is the only thing Laine is better at. Jones plays the more important position, on the ice more and during key moments (pk/end of games), Jones directly contributes to his teams success (both offensively and duh defensively). Laine is one dimensional and Jones is the complete package. So you will forgive my confusion when I see posts like these...

 

[ulvvf]

This right here (see previous comment)
I feel the exact opposite. Outside of goal scoring (duh winger vs dman) is the only thing Laine is better at. Jones plays the more important position, on the ice more and during key moments (pk/end of games), Jones directly contributes to his teams success (both offensively and duh defensively). Laine is one dimensional and Jones is the complete package. So you will forgive my confusion when I see posts like these...

Team result pretty clearly shows that you are dead wrong. Mention just 1 team that has won or even gone far with crappy forwards? It is not just that all successfull teams to my knowledge has elite forwards while not all successfull team have good d-men, we can also look at the other end, team with the best d-men lineup, like Nashville. Which has by far the best d-men lineup, i think their top 4 is unmatch in modern time, and they have good backup from forwards, and still they fail.

Offense is more about individuals and defense is more about team work, do not forget that. Defense is importent, but that do not mean that d-men is more importent. Also forwards plays a bigger role in defense than d-men plays in offense. There is also a reason why forwards play less, because their job is harder and more demanding, they make thing happens and have to backcheck harder etc, while d-men basically can just stand around the blue line half of the time, and do not take part of the game as much as forwards do.

 

[bsu]

Laine and it is not even remotly close, i would take 1 laine over 2 Jones, i can not find any argument for Jones at all. Laine is much more of game-changer than Jones is, and it is also extremly clear if you just look at team result that d-men are silly overrated in general.

3rd worst post I've ever seen on this forum.... And that's saying a lot.

 

[Dumais]

I wasn't referring to team success, team success is more group success than an individual one. And a poor way to measure individual worth. I was talking about the role of their jobs on their, or for that matter, on any team. PP1 Jones is on it, PK1 Jones is on the ice. End of game, goal down or goal up; Jones is on the ice. Jones is one of the highest scoring dmen in the league in goals and assists, and he plays more important time.

Maybe if Laine can increase his assists (26 this year) without a big drop in goals, then maybe I could see an argument.

 

[Apotheosis]

Bruh, Jones on the Leafs would be mint. Rielly-Jones...

 

[ulvvf]

3rd worst post I've ever seen on this forum.... And that's saying a lot.

I think it say far more about you.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

I wasn't referring to team success, team success is more group success than an individual one. And a poor way to measure individual worth. I was talking about the role of their jobs on their, or for that matter, on any team. PP1 Jones is on it, PK1 Jones is on the ice. End of game, goal down or goal up; Jones is on the ice. Jones is one of the highest scoring dmen in the league in goals and assists, and he plays more important time.

Maybe if Laine can increase his assists (26 this year) without a big drop in goals, then maybe I could see an argument.

Lol no homerism here and another question was Jones all over the ice at 19?

 

[kujo31]

I picked Jones only because the question was who would you add to your team and it’s obviously no secret the Leafs need Defenceman, so as a player I like Laine but leafs don’t need wingers

 

[Dumais]

Lol no homerism here and another question was Jones all over the ice at 19?

How is that homerism? He does play at those times...and again with age...

All I'm asking is, outside of age and goals (and there's a lot more to hockey than those), what does Laine do better than Jones?

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

How is that homerism? He does play at those times...and again with age...

All I'm asking is, outside of age and goals (and there's a lot more to hockey than those), what does Laine do better than Jones?

What stat is Seth Jones better than Laine at while being 4 years older? OZ%?

 

[Dumais]

What stat is Seth Jones better than Laine at while being 4 years older? OZ%?

Again with stats, I'm not going down that rabbit hole. One is a forward and one is a dman, stats really don't work. Besides that, Laine only had 13 pts more than Jones, doesn't help his case from a stats POV. Your only argument outside of stats appear to be, more stats. If you base a value of a player based on stats (and in this case goals) that's your choice. But I have given you more than enough reasons why Jones is the better player, while you offer up feelings, insults and scream "goals at 19" for 5 straight pages.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Again with stats, I'm not going down that rabbit hole. One is a forward and one is a dman, stats really don't work. Besides that, Laine only had 13 pts more than Jones, doesn't help his case from a stats POV. Your only argument outside of stats appear to be, more stats. If you base a value of a player based on stats (and in this case goals) that's your choice. But I have given you more than enough reasons why Jones is the better player, while you offer up feelings, insults and scream "goals at 19" for 5 straight pages.

Lol, stats are performance and you where the one who asked for stats in the first place. So you say stats don’t matter, than you ask for them and then you bring up the fact that Laine has “only” 13 more points(with like 700 less minutes played this season)... Please be consistent here. You can’t simply say that a player is better because of the position he plays and ignore alternative arguments because it doesn’t fit your biased narrative. To your next point I may have been mentioning Goals and age allot in regards to Laine quite a bit but when you score the most goals as a teenager in the past 30 years it should not be ignored and that’s what your doing(trying to ignore the fact that Laine is one of the best Goalscorers in the league as a teenager as he has the highest G/60 since he’s entered it), I mean imagine if I said minus Jones best attributes who is better Laine or Jones? It’s an ignorant way of viewing and judging the two players here.

 

[stevo61]

so... Atkinson >>Trouba because he had a season with more goals then Trouba has in his career?

 

[Ainec]

Laine is not even the 4th best player on his team.. Lol


why are people arguing with wpg99, waste of time

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Been watching around 10 Jets game these playoffs. Never thought Laine was so underwhelming. Plays like he's stuck in quicksand. Absolutely allergic to moving his feet. Never seen a player this static. Also thought his stick handling were a lot better. Hell of a release and One T though. Almost Ovechkin like in that area. Gotta go with Jones here.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Been watching around 10 Jets game these playoffs. Never thought Laine was so underwhelming. Plays like he's stuck in quicksand. Absolutely allergic to moving his feet. Never seen a player this static. Also thought his stick handling were a lot better. Hell of a release and One T though. Almost Ovechkin like in that area. Gotta go with Jones here.

The kid is actually doing pretty good right now and he is seems to be slowly working off an ankle injury(before he got it he was skating all over the place).

 

[ole ole]

Top line winger vs #1 defenseman...please do.

You mean Elite franchise winger or a #1 defensiveman.

 

[Kington91]

The kid is actually doing pretty good right now and he is seems to be slowly working off an ankle injury(before he got it he was skating all over the place).

LMAO. Okay.

 

[dangomon]

Lol stats are enough, it’s just an edition all factor that Laine is still only 20.

I’m obviously not going to change your mind because your a Blue Jackets fan.

All I can do is point out reasons why Laine is better(and here you yell out defensive position). In reality Laine was one goal off this season from scoring more goals than Jones has scored in his entire career(if you include playoffs he’s got more there than in Jones entire career) . Jones was traded as a 19 year old and couldn’t even reach .3 PPG at that age while Laine is second in the league in goals since he’s entered it(with more GPG than than the guy ahead of him), Laine has had the most GP/60 with a weaker range of Linemates/Pairings over the season(Laines played the majority of the season with Little and Ehlers which neither are better than Werenski skill wise).

Yeah I’m sure you could say Jones is a Defensmen all day but that doesn’t make him better or more valuable, that just makes Jones a player at a different position.

Unless a team is in need of a Defensmen(which I can’t blame them for), I don’t see any reasonable, well reason to not take a Generational Goalscorer(as goals are the most important stat in hockey and the hardest stat to have in hockey as well) over a older player(just because he’s playing a more sought out position).

Why is points per game, and goals your basis for arguing the difference between a defender and a forward. Nylander has more career goals than Jones, I guess you'd take him as well?

If you truly believe Jones' value lies entirely in his points and goals, then this discussion is over, Laine wins easily. It's just a very flawed way of thinking. Ill take a team with 6 Jones on the back end over a team with 8 Laines on the wings.