Seth Jones or Patrik Laine

Seth Jones or Patrik Laine

  • Jones

  • Laine


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StatisticsAddict99

Registered User
Feb 24, 2017
3,971
1,324
Top line winger vs #1 defenseman...please do.

Excuse me I may be incorrect but was Jones even a solid Top 4 as a 19/20 year old and how many players or “Top Line Wingers” have had 44 Goals this season or 80 in the past two? Heck, Laines nearly got more goals this season than Seth’s jones has got in his whole career.
 
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Dumais

It's All In The Reflexes
Jul 24, 2013
1,674
717
Really? stats ain't enough so you want to talk age? meh, I'll pass. I want to talk about value of position. I want to talk about ice time. Who's going to break up plays defensively and then help transition to offense. I want to talk about the position that can help wingers score more by holding the line in the offensive zone, and launch shots that give up juicy rebounds, and provide redirection possibilities for wingers.

Sorry, unless you have something to change my mind, I will always value defensemen over wingers; all things being equal. Centers...maybe.
 

olli

Unregistered User
Dec 2, 2016
3,631
1,786
cÃnÃdÃ
I'll stick with Laine. Wouldn't trade him for jones 1 for 1. I think of a lot of teams that would take Jones, though.
 

StatisticsAddict99

Registered User
Feb 24, 2017
3,971
1,324
Really? stats ain't enough so you want to talk age? meh, I'll pass. I want to talk about value of position. I want to talk about ice time. Who's going to break up plays defensively and then help transition to offense. I want to talk about the position that can help wingers score more by holding the line in the offensive zone, and launch shots that give up juicy rebounds, and provide redirection possibilities for wingers.

Sorry, unless you have something to change my mind, I will always value defensemen over wingers; all things being equal. Centers...maybe.

Lol stats are enough, it’s just an edition all factor that Laine is still only 20.

I’m obviously not going to change your mind because your a Blue Jackets fan.

All I can do is point out reasons why Laine is better(and here you yell out defensive position). In reality Laine was one goal off this season from scoring more goals than Jones has scored in his entire career(if you include playoffs he’s got more there than in Jones entire career) . Jones was traded as a 19 year old and couldn’t even reach .3 PPG at that age while Laine is second in the league in goals since he’s entered it(with more GPG than than the guy ahead of him), Laine has had the most GP/60 with a weaker range of Linemates/Pairings over the season(Laines played the majority of the season with Little and Ehlers which neither are better than Werenski skill wise).

Yeah I’m sure you could say Jones is a Defensmen all day but that doesn’t make him better or more valuable, that just makes Jones a player at a different position.

Unless a team is in need of a Defensmen(which I can’t blame them for), I don’t see any reasonable, well reason to not take a Generational Goalscorer(as goals are the most important stat in hockey and the hardest stat to have in hockey as well) over a older player(just because he’s playing a more sought out position).
 
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SHANNYPLAN

Registered User
Nov 24, 2016
5,208
2,592
Leafs need Jones a lot more than Laine

Rielly - Jones
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Hainsey

With our offence would make us cup contenders
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
3,556
2,672
There are basically two important variables in hockey. How many goals for and how many against.

You can sacrifice some goals against if you get tons of goals for. Defense is not more important than offense, you just need to have the right kind of mix and utilize your players as such.

If Laine would have had the same TOI as Ovi, he would have scored 53 goals and won the Rocket, no contest. With pretty questionable deployment I might add, and while still being physically raw (now he just looks bulky because that's where he is at right now training-wise). He didn't get many assists because the line he was in most of the season simply did not score. Like almost at all. It was only after he got some new linemates when he started potting ES points. PP was under control the whole season and he was the best PP scorer in the league, which makes sense.

Jones or Laine... lol
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
3,556
2,672
Or maybe he would've scored 32 goals being exhausted from amount of ice time he can't handle and facing top competition instead of the easier match ups that he has currently.

Let's just agree that he scored the goals that he did.

Perhaps, but I think factoring in ice-time yields more accurate results than "let's just agree the raw numbers are what they are".

"Maybe he would have been tired" sounds a bit like reaching. I think quality of competition has been addressed before. No one in their right mind would give Laine easy matchups (although at home for sure if possible).
 

Laineux

Registered User
Aug 1, 2011
5,267
2,826
Perhaps, but I think factoring in ice-time yields more accurate results than "let's just agree the raw numbers are what they are".

"Maybe he would have been tired" sounds a bit like reaching.
Being able to handle 20+ minutes with the same efficiency as 16 minutes is a reach for anybody, let alone a 19-year-old who has very unfinished physique.
 

member 157595

Guest
There are basically two important variables in hockey. How many goals for and how many against.

You can sacrifice some goals against if you get tons of goals for. Defense is not more important than offense, you just need to have the right kind of mix and utilize your players as such.

If Laine would have had the same TOI as Ovi, he would have scored 53 goals and won the Rocket, no contest. With pretty questionable deployment I might add, and while still being physically raw (now he just looks bulky because that's where he is at right now training-wise). He didn't get many assists because the line he was in most of the season simply did not score. Like almost at all. It was only after he got some new linemates when he started potting ES points. PP was under control the whole season and he was the best PP scorer in the league, which makes sense.

Jones or Laine... lol
In the real world, teams have needs. The thread did not ask who the better player is now, or the better player going forward, it asked which player would be a better asset to your team.

For my team, Jones is unquestionably the better add. That's not saying he's necessarily a better player but he's a #1 D that fills our greatest need by far. Adding Jones makes my team better than adding Laine does.
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
3,556
2,672
In the real (read: non-fanboyish) world, teams have needs. The thread did not ask who the better player is now, or the better player going forward, it asked which player would be a better asset to your team.

For my team, Jones is unquestionably the better add. That's not saying he's necessarily a better player but he's a #1 D that fills our greatest need by far. Adding Jones makes my team better than adding Laine does.

Good point. I completely missed that. Nice subtle insults too, overall a nice post.

Still, I'm not sure passing up Laine is correct here, no matter your situation. Could be wrong, especially if Jones is REALLY good.
 

grieves

silent prayer
Apr 27, 2016
3,556
2,672
Being able to handle 20+ minutes with the same efficiency as 16 minutes is a reach for anybody, let alone a 19-year-old who has very unfinished physique.

Well let's keep the TOI and change Little for Scheifele for next season?

60 or 70 goals? :D

Not a single person in the NHL has reached 40 goals in such a low ice-time than Laine since TOI has been tracked. You say that his production would not increase with increased ice-time, but I don't find that very plausible. Who knows.
 

Laineux

Registered User
Aug 1, 2011
5,267
2,826
Well let's keep the TOI and change Little for Scheifele for next season?

60 or 70 goals? :D

Not a single person in the NHL has reached 40 goals in such a low ice-time than Laine since TOI has been tracked. You say that his production would not increase with increased ice-time, but I don't find that very plausible. Who knows.
Laine had a very rare ratio of powerplay to even strength time too.

Pointing out that Laine could score more with more ice time is fair but I don't like stating it as a fact that he'd have xx amount of goals with y of icetime. He also didn't have to face top competition this year.
 
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