Proposal: Seth Jones for M. Marner

[TBF1972]

This is my thinking as well and there is an opportunity coming to light now. Marner to the Preds for Ekholm and Ellis makes sense. The Cap would be a wash for both while the Leafs would not have the top pairing guy they would have a good 2nd pair both at age 29. The Preds would get a generational player they have never had while still having Josi and Fabbro going forward. The Preds are at the point where they must rebuild the goaltending has aged out and the pieces Poile has added are going to age out before the tender situation resolves. So it is time for him to sell off and build to a younger window. When the Wild beat the Wings in a couple days the Preds will be at the bottom of the central with out one three game win streak this season. Poiles ability to bandaid this team for the last 5 years hoping Rinne could fight off age has came to roost.

Now for the guy who advised me not to argue with VIQSI I know she is a Pred fan as well as a Jacket fane but what you do not know is that I was a full season ticket holder for the Preds from 98 to 2010 and I still follow that team as well as the Bolts, Sabres and Avalanche. I have had these teams as my favorites for years. VISQI and I have had many debates over the years she sees things one way and I see it another. But one thing we can both agree on I think is that the Jackets won that trade Jones for Sluggo. And I can understand many being on the Jones wagon but I just do not see him close to a top 10 defender in the league like most.

And now Marner is a generational talent after one 94 pt season !

How many generational talents do we have on the leafs? 5 or even 6 with Sandin? Tampa must have at least 4? The league propably has more generational talents than All-Stars.

 

[Jerkbait]

And now Marner is a generational talent after one 94 pt season !

How many generational talents do we have on the leafs? 5 or even 6 with Sandin? Tampa must have at least 4? The league propably has more generational talents than All-Stars.

And now Marner is a generational talent after one 94 pt season !

How many generational talents do we have on the leafs? 5 or even 6 with Sandin? Tampa must have at least 4? The league propably has more generational talents than All-Stars.

I missed where he was called a generational talent. You do realize he had a 94 point season and was on pace for 100 points this year right? And he's 22? To me and this is another debate there are only 4 true generational talents playing today.. mcdavid crosby malkin and ovie . There are others knocking on the door ...Matthews leon kucherov..

 

[Byrddog]

And now Marner is a generational talent after one 94 pt season !

How many generational talents do we have on the leafs? 5 or even 6 with Sandin? Tampa must have at least 4? The league propably has more generational talents than All-Stars.

The answer is three Matthews, Marner, Tavares. While Tavares has struggled to meet his hype 47 goals and 88 points last year is nothing to sneeze at. Sometimes it strains my brain to understand Leafs fans who will covet a Wade Belak and trash there better players. Perhaps its that they wish to portray themselves as knowing more. But it is pretty clear Marner is now and will be one of the top forwards in the league. He did BTW earn an almost 11m per long term contract. He is the best asset the team has that could be moved to fill the needs to move that team forward.

 

[Spazkat]

I missed where he was called a generational talent. You do realize he had a 94 point season and was on pace for 100 points this year right? And he's 22? To me and this is another debate there are only 4 true generational talents playing today.. mcdavid crosby malkin and ovie . There are others knocking on the door ...Matthews leon kucherov..

 

[FerrisRox]

.
He wouldnt even be best D man on Toronto.

 

[FerrisRox]

the guy who has outscored Jones on the same team in 7 less games while scoring 15 goals(leading NHL for D) as a defenseman not being better is a stupid take?

With all due respect, yeah, it is. It's odd that you think scoring production is a good measuring stick for the value of a defenseman.

Do you think that Philip Danault is a better centre than Nathan MacKinnon because Danault is so much better than MacKinnon defensively, because that's the same argument you are making here and wondering why people are calling it a stupid take.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Sorry marner recorded 94 points. Was on pace for 100 plus this year. He a solid 90 to 110 point guy. I guess if your rounding he closer to 90 than 100. 94 was tops on a team with matthews and tavares very impressive for a 22 year old who will break 100 .

How is he a solid 90-110 point guy? He's broken 90 points exactly once... Seems more like a 80-100 point guy as long as he has a franchise player as his center (though he benefits them as much as they benefit him).

Without Tavares / Matthews as his C he's never broken 70 points.

Jones has broke 50 only once and be lucky to break 40 this year .

He's on pace for 43 points, how would he be lucky to break 40 points? When he's done it for 3 consecutive years?? It's not like Columbus has firepower of Toronto - breaking 40 points as a defenseman on that team is impressive. He's probably a 60+ point defenseman if he played in Toronto.

 

[Jerkbait]

The answer is three Matthews, Marner, Tavares. While Tavares has struggled to meet his hype 47 goals and 88 points last year is nothing to sneeze at. Sometimes it strains my brain to understand Leafs fans who will covet a Wade Belak and trash there better players. Perhaps its that they wish to portray themselves as knowing more. But it is pretty clear Marner is now and will be one of the top forwards in the league. He did BTW earn an almost 11m per long term contract. He is the best asset the team has that could be moved to fill the needs to move that team forward.

Yes agreed but leafs will move nylnader before marner. For sure one of the top forwards in the league and only 22

 

[Jerkbait]

How is he a solid 90-110 point guy? He's broken 90 points exactly once... Seems more like a 80-100 point guy as long as he has a franchise player as his center (though he benefits them as much as they benefit him).

Without Tavares / Matthews as his C he's never broken 70 points.



He's on pace for 43 points, how would he be lucky to break 40 points? When he's done it for 3 consecutive years?? It's not like Columbus has firepower of Toronto - breaking 40 points as a defenseman on that team is impressive. He's probably a 60+ point defenseman if he played in Toronto.

He is 22 and not even in his prime that's how!!! On pace again this despite being injured. He would easily break 100 if healthy all year and will for many seasons ahead. 60 points is Jones peak. Yes it not all about points we understand that. But the gap is just to big here. If you are an advanced stat person then you would also know Jones is below 50 percent for corsi...

 

[Flying Dego]

Yes correct . Not a leaf fan. You don't have to be to see how valuable marner is. I put him ahead of Jake Guentzel and I would not trade jake for jones ...the option of trading a a top 5 d man for a top 5 winger is not far fetched however the delusion status when you think jones is currently a top 5 d man. This is backed up by NBC sports which didnt have him ranked in top 10. Sportsnet had him around 20th. Bleacher report overall ranking was 8. He currently sits 35th in d man scoring with 4 goals. Jack Johnson has 3 goals and a higher plus minus to put this in perspective. Jones sits in the middle with hits. His blocked shots are high and ice time high. His 5v5 play is good so did i just describe jones or Brian dumo?? Yes some of these rankings were done before the season but jones play hasn't moved him up at all I comfortably put him around # 10 to 12 for overall. It's easy to find 5 d with more value ....hedman, doughty, makar, chabot, Carlson.....we didn't even need to mention cup champ Alex p, or mark Giordano...or... josi...burns .. now ask yourself how many on that list would you ship your 22 year old 90 to 100 winger for who lead your team in scoring for ? I see maybe 2...big ?? On Alex and doughty because of age..someone asked about recent trades. The closest I can think of is Taylor hall for larrson...oilers lost that trade. Marner more value than hall by far. I don't mind debating this but fact is dubas has every opportunity to send marner for d man but there are very very few around the league that he would do this .. jones isnt one of them. It's a simple case of you keep your guy we keep our guy

Ok. As a Pens fan Jones certainly is more valuable than Jake. And I absolutely love Jake.

The CBJ definitely won't trade a stud #1 RD for Marner. Nothing against Marner he's terrific...but come on.

 

[AvroArrow]

I get why CBJ says no, young elite #1D but Marner is getting criminally under rated here.

 

[GOilers88]

Hes scored over 90 once so he's a solid 110 point player? That's fuzzy math. Too bad defense doesn't factor in your method of evaluating players, if it did, you would realize the Leafs will never win anything but statistical championships.

Marner scores 94 once and he's a solid 90-110 point guy.

Jones scores 57 once but he's not even a 60 point guy.

Why is this guy even allowed to post anymore?

 

[93gilmour93]

I get why CBJ says no, young elite #1D but Marner is getting criminally under rated here.

Hf boards in a nutshell

 

[landeskog11]

in before lock

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I get why CBJ says no, young elite #1D but Marner is getting criminally under rated here.

How so? Because some don't believe he's worth a stud defenseman? Or because some are arguing against referring to him as a 100 point guy because he's never reached the mark?

 

[Byrral]

Why is this guy even allowed to post anymore?

This poster obviously has some kind of agenda towards: 1) Seth Jones 2) the Columbus Blue Jackets 3) a combination of 1 and 2 plus some other reason(s)

I'm not sure it's purely "trolling" but I can't figure it out (nor do I care to).

Of said poster... approximately 1/3 of their posts are in this thread and over the past few days. There is also a similar thread on this board involving Marner for Heiskanen in which said poster has not had one post. You would think that this poster (considering how they feel about Marner's value) would have some sort of opinion on the value of that proposal be it good or bad. But nothing. Seems odd.

I don't post as much as others around here but have been an avid reader since I joined in 2006. It's a very rare group of posters that have made my ignore list. Congrats to said poster, you've made it.

In the end I'm sure the Leafs would love to have Seth Jones on their team as I know the CBJ would love to have Marner (Jarmo has stated there was interest in him). Both teams want to add this type of player without losing the other player. The value is there (or it's definitely close). In my opinion (I'm not a GM) the only way I'd trade Jones is for a top 1C (there aren't many/any GMs that are going to trade these players away either). Otherwise no reason to trade a guy that is so valuable to the team. If he gets close to UFA and he refuses to sign an extension things will certainly change. But we aren't there yet.

 

[Jerkbait]

Ok. As a Pens fan Jones certainly is more valuable than Jake. And I absolutely love Jake.

The CBJ definitely won't trade a stud #1 RD for Marner. Nothing against Marner he's terrific...but come on.

Disagree. For a couple of reasons as a pens fan you are aware how hard it is to find a winger sid gels with . 40 goal guy with potential for 90 points plus. Younger and signed very reasonably. Penguins have no real need for a number one d man with letang . We have a shutdown guy in dumo. I don't think G4 would do this but st same time i dont think jackets do either. By the marner has more value than Jake

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He is 22 and not even in his prime that's how!!! On pace again this despite being injured. He would easily break 100 if healthy all year and will for many seasons ahead.

So I guess it's safe to call Eichel a 105 point player? He's from the same draft year as Marner and is on pace for 105 points.

60 points is Jones peak. Yes it not all about points we understand that. But the gap is just to big here. If you are an advanced stat person then you would also know Jones is below 50 percent for corsi...

Jones is barely below 50% corsi (49.58) this year, but he's been well above 50% the prior 3 seasons despite playing on mediocre teams. His rel corsi has been significantly positive for every season in his career, which is a far better possession indicator.

 

[Flying Dego]

Disagree. For a couple of reasons as a pens fan you are aware how hard it is to find a winger sid gels with . 40 goal guy with potential for 90 points plus. Younger and signed very reasonably. Penguins have no real need for a number one d man with letang . We have a shutdown guy in dumo. I don't think G4 would do this but st same time i dont think jackets do either. By the marner has more value than Jake

I'd trade Jake for very few pieces around the league. He's still not worth Jones. I'm not saying Jones makes sense for the Pens. But he's crucial to the Jackets. Letangs days as a top RD are limited unfortunately...our saving grace is Marino looks primed to take over his role and switch him.

Look at it this way. Who would Columbus rather have against Sid/Geno? Marner or Jones. I think I know who people would value more.

 

[Jerkbait]

This poster obviously has some kind of agenda towards: 1) Seth Jones 2) the Columbus Blue Jackets 3) a combination of 1 and 2 plus some other reason(s)

I'm not sure it's purely "trolling" but I can't figure it out (nor do I care to).

Of said poster... approximately 1/3 of their posts are in this thread and over the past few days. There is also a similar thread on this board involving Marner for Heiskanen in which said poster has not had one post. You would think that this poster (considering how they feel about Marner's value) would have some sort of opinion on the value of that proposal be it good or bad. But nothing. Seems odd.

I don't post as much as others around here but have been an avid reader since I joined in 2006. It's a very rare group of posters that have made my ignore list. Congrats to said poster, you've made it.

In the end I'm sure the Leafs would love to have Seth Jones on their team as I know the CBJ would love to have Marner (Jarmo has stated there was interest in him). Both teams want to add this type of player without losing the other player. The value is there (or it's definitely close). In my opinion (I'm not a GM) the only way I'd trade Jones is for a top 1C (there aren't many/any GMs that are going to trade these players away either). Otherwise no reason to trade a guy that is so valuable to the team. If he gets close to UFA and he refuses to sign an extension things will certainly change. But we aren't there yet.

Sorry to disappoint you. No hidden. Agenda. I dont know alot about the other player you mentioned. Nothing against jones or jackets or leads leafs. Just being local to Toronto market I am aware it would take a miracle for another team to worry marner away from dubas . Just not happening especially for Jones who is a good 2 way d man and would work for leafs but not at marners expense. Nylnader yes . Marner No. I took marner retires a leaf . Mattews moves on at some point.

 

[Fogelhund]

Leafs fan.... Jones is an amazing player, and would make a wonderful addition to the Leafs. I'd agree, that Columbus wouldn't trade him for Marner straight up... though surely if Columbus wanted more offense, Marner would be a good starting point.

All of that said, if the Leafs are proposing a trade with Columbus, it's really David Savard that fits what the Leafs need, more than Jones.

 

[Canucks1096]

Top 20? He's top 5 for sure. Probably top 3.

He was a top 4 and top 9 Norris voting the last 2 years

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Who wouldn't want Mitch Marner on their team, or Jake either for that matter they are both great offensive talents. You may be forgetting that we traded a 1C for Seth Jones because frankly we are building our franchise around the guy. That may not be important in Toronto or Pittsburgh but it is of critical importance to Columbus. Jones eats minutes and makes Goalies all stars.. much like the comparison of Syd and Jake, the team synergy is too much to ignore to the respective team. Next question?

 

[Viqsi]

Leafs fan.... Jones is an amazing player, and would make a wonderful addition to the Leafs. I'd agree, that Columbus wouldn't trade him for Marner straight up... though surely if Columbus wanted more offense, Marner would be a good starting point.

All of that said, if the Leafs are proposing a trade with Columbus, it's really David Savard that fits what the Leafs need, more than Jones.

Agreed... but what the Jackets need in return for Savard, Toronto can't/won't (realistically*) provide anymore.

*: We need a #2C, and while Toronto has two excellent top-6 centers, neither of them are going anywhere in a Savard deal.

 

[Fogelhund]

Agreed... but what the Jackets need in return for Savard, Toronto can't/won't (realistically*) provide anymore.

*: We need a #2C, and while Toronto has two excellent top-6 centers, neither of them are going anywhere in a Savard deal.

Sure, that might be true as well.. but if we are going to argue for pages on end, about values... let's at least argue about a player that is a better fit for needs.