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Post-Game Talk: SENS blow into the Windy City, Mon 8:30 pm

bert

bert

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Nov 11, 2002
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solidprospect said:
If Chabot makes players look that good we should put him with Ceci and get our first round pick for him as soon as possible.
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Chabot is a special player but if he was that good the sens would be a playoff team and he would be in the running for the hart. No one on earth is good enough to turn Ceci into a first round pick at this point. Maybe Bobby Orr in his prime.... Maybe.
 
BondraTime

BondraTime

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BonkTastic said:
I think the fallacy here is trusting that the stats are infallible.

Advanced stats in hockey can be better than older traditional ones. Sometimes. A lot of the time, even. But the problem with advanced stats in hockey (not in that they are useless, but more in how you need to be careful with them and how they are not the are be-all and end-all of a player's story) is that they are HUGELY context dependent - coaching systems, linemates, and deployment are a massive unaccounted-for variable that way too many fans don't take into consideration.

I mean, Patty Wiercioch. Chris Wideman. Shane Prince. And on, and on... Even on the Sens alone, you can see that argument in place with these sorts of stats.

I'm a believer in advanced stats for sure, but also a believer that they are not the authoritative bible on player assessment - they are just a tool in a comprehensive, holistic evaluation of a player. They are occasionally fallible, and we have proof of that consistently since their appearance in hockey -again, not to the extent that we should not be using them, but certainly enough that they are at best used in context with other information to form a solid opinion of not only a player's skill, buy also his role and fit.

Regardless, there's nothing else we can really say in this argument that simply watching Demelo for the next 2-3 seasons won't uncover. You have your theory, I have mine. There's not much else to do but wait and find out who is right.
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Advanced stats can be used to help supplement the eye test, but without good actual hockey knowledge is just a bunch of numbers someone can pull up and produce on a chart.
 
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Sensung

Sensung

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Oct 3, 2017
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BondraTime said:
Funny thing is, Demelo was free to us for 2 weeks in July.

If we "saw upside in him", why didn't we sign him for free when we were able to.
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Yup. He was a throw in piece, not someone the Sens targeted due to their pro scouting.
 
solidprospect

solidprospect

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Sep 30, 2017
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bert said:
Chabot is a special player but if he was that good the sens would be a playoff team and he would be in the running for the hart. No one on earth is good enough to turn Ceci into a first round pick at this point. Maybe Bobby Orr in his prime.... Maybe.
Click to expand...
Karlsson is better than Chabot and we were not always a playoff team even with Karlsson. The problem with the team is no depth not our current 1/2 defenceman.

We have some very good players, but we're obviously working on turning the roster over from all the bad ones.
 
solidprospect

solidprospect

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Sep 30, 2017
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BondraTime said:
Funny thing is, Demelo was free to us for 2 weeks in July.

If we "saw upside in him", why didn't we sign him for free when we were able to.
Click to expand...
BonkTastic said:
I think the fallacy here is trusting that the stats are infallible.

Advanced stats in hockey can be better than older traditional ones. Sometimes. A lot of the time, even. But the problem with advanced stats in hockey (not in that they are useless, but more in how you need to be careful with them and how they are not the are be-all and end-all of a player's story) is that they are HUGELY context dependent - coaching systems, linemates, and deployment are a massive unaccounted-for variable that way too many fans don't take into consideration.

I mean, Patty Wiercioch. Chris Wideman. Shane Prince. And on, and on... Even on the Sens alone, you can see that argument in place with these sorts of stats.

I'm a believer in advanced stats for sure, but also a believer that they are not the authoritative bible on player assessment - they are just a tool in a comprehensive, holistic evaluation of a player. They are occasionally fallible, and we have proof of that consistently since their appearance in hockey -again, not to the extent that we should not be using them, but certainly enough that they are at best used in context with other information to form a solid opinion of not only a player's skill, buy also his role and fit.

Regardless, there's nothing else we can really say in this argument that simply watching Demelo for the next 2-3 seasons won't uncover. You have your theory, I have mine. There's not much else to do but wait and find out who is right.
Click to expand...

Wieroch, wideman and prince we're never rated highly by GAR or any other advanced stats.You're basically saying his stats are good because of Chabot and anyone else with Chabot would have a high gar or war and what not just because of chabot, that's not even close to true.
 
BondraTime

BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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solidprospect said:
Wieroch, wideman and prince we're never rated highly by GAR or any other advanced stats.
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Sure?

That makes sense, they weren't rated highly by the eye test either.

Not sure we need advanced stats to tell us that

Pretty sure Wiercioch was an advanced stats darling, but you know more about them than me
 
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