Speculation: Roster Building Thread I (2021 Offseason) - And so it begins...

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Barnaby

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Sure, yet again I think these past couple days have shown that a lot more can happen than some people think.

Let me ask this, where does Kreider play should Panarin and Laff stay? Is he still top 6 even strength? Will the PP set-up change now?

If he does stay top 6 which one of Panarin or Laff is not?

I don't think people are arguing that they wouldn't trade Kreider. They are simply saying that it's highly unlikely.

He supposedly took less money to play here in return for a NMC. With the flat cap his contract is now an albatross which I said it would be from the beginning.

With that said, I would never say something is impossible, but it's highly unlikely any time soon.
 
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Barnaby

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I would love it. But he is going to be 29 next year, hitting UFA for the first time. Who knows how much he will want and what term. Being a ppg player, he is gonna get a nice fat contract in free agency from someone. Mika is the same age and also UFA in a year.

Trying to convince both of them not to go to UFA and sign team favorable deals would be a headache, I would imagine.

Trying to trade for Larkin would be a better option and not necessarily more expensive.

Get ready for Yzerman to ask for Kakko or Lafreniere +. Then get ready to pay Larkin handsomely. I like the player, but don't see a realistic deal here.

Yzerman isn't accepting Chytil and a 2nd.
 
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Kaapo Hollweg

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Get ready for Yzerman to ask for Kakko or Lafreniere +. Then get ready to pay Larkin handsomely. I like the player, but don't see a realistic deal here.

Yzerman isn't accepting Chytil and a 2nd.
Chytil and a 2nd is indeed unrealistic. I was thinking something along the lines of Buch + Strome/Chytil (rather Strome, but Yzerman will want Chytil) + an NHL ready prospect such as Lundkvist. Maybe that is actually too steep for us and I would try to give them Jones/Robertson ahead of Lundkvist, but I would be able to live with it.

They would lose their captain, but get 3 good young players ready to play in the NHL. And I guess they need to get some actual NHL players on their roster.

And we would get a young center at the right age for our timeline on a cap hit similar to what Strome might ask for and we might actually be able to keep both Mika and Larkin long term under the cap. Which would make paying a hefty price worthwhile (unlike with Eichel, who would have to be Mika's replacement).

Kakko and Laf are untouchable in such a deal. But I think we have enough other assets to pull it off.
 

Ola

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If there were ever any doubt Sather is firmly back in the mix it is plain as day in the tone, nuggets dropped, and all around confidence projected in Brooks’ writing lately.
Larry I hope they bought you dinner first.

This bit made me dry heave...if they think the solution here is building around Zibanejad as if he is an elite 1C...that’s all she wrote for this “rebuild”:

Just screams start of a multi article sales pitch ahead of big extension for Zibanejad. Hope to hell I’m wrong.

I agree. Zibanejad could be an excellent No 2 C. But he can't match-up against the top lines around us. Barzal will skate him into the ground. Bergeron, Pasternak and Marchand will take away time and space better than a Ziba line can counter, Aho will skate him into the ground. Tampa's flying bees will take away time and space better than a Ziba line can counter. Jack Hughes and Hirscher is growing in NJ, they could acheive the same things down the road.

I think Ziba has improved some this year, it was a bigger factor last season. At the same time, these things get magnified in the POs.

On top of that you have the concussion issues.

I like Ziba, its very easy to be appreciative of players that have improved and still improves as much as he does. That if anything shows a tremendous passion for the game. But I can't see him really carrying a team in the POs. If he is willing to take a discount, sure. But if not, its scary to look at a long long extension at a very high cost.
 

Ola

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Real journalism died with paywalls. It's all about clickbait and convincing people to pony up a few bucks

A big problem around this team has always been that these guys can get away with just not knowing much about what they are covering. Before pay-walls, we under Sather tried to win with playing 80s hockey during the trapping era which led to 7 years in a row without a play-off appearance at a time we litterary had a roster costing 2x as much as the other team. Our "cap hit" peaked at 80m when league average was what, 35m?, and we still missed the POs.

How many times were the coach, GM or leading players asked like, "basically all other teams in this league are either trapping or playing an extremely tight system to limit the effectiveness of the trap, why are you not doing the same?" Why was this question not asked? Because everyone bought the notion that "you cannot trap in NYC, the fans won't have it". Problem was that you couldn't win without "trapping", did fans in NYC prefer following the biggest humiliation in pro sports, missing the POs with an 80m roster, over seeing a successful trapping team? Of course not.

It was beyond dumb. We lost the puck in the neutral zone a ton since our transition game was super naive and stood no chance against the trapping teams, as a result we gave up a ton of odd man rushes. On the other hand, we never created any turnovers in the neutral zone, and as a consequence got no odd man rushes. They were tracking odd-man rushes at this point, and suddenly everyone could see that we got 2-3 odd man rushes and gave up 14-15. Sather and co went, oh we need to get more odd man-rushes, that comes from speed right? So we went out and got Russ Courtnall (a real speedster, say Athanasiou type, had like 99 in speed in EA Sports NHL 1998) and players like that.

Glen Sather's work during these years is easily among the worst ever any GM have put forth in the history of the NHL. Eventually it became super obvious that he had no feel whatsoever for the "modern game", look this is almost two decades ago, so with modern I am not referring to what we are seeing right now lol. After 03', the Hindenburgh, Titanic, Holocaust season of the NHL. Everyone was prepared to lynch Sather. Glen said something like "calm down, its not like I shot the Prime Minister of Canada". He really distanced himself from the team. Brought in a ton of experienced pro executives. Renney, Maloney, Schoenfield, top agents, ex. NHL coaches and many others, don't remember them all. When we made moves, he stayed away from the podium. He was the GM by title, not definitely not by position. Renney and Maloney does a tremendous job, and on a phoenix bird resurrgent level manage to over night actually turn us into a very potent team. Nobody wanted to come here. Crappy players took less to go elsewhere. Among the players nobody wanted, they built a team that wasn't half bad. Rozival from Pittsburgh, Malik, Nylander, Straka and so forth. An amazing feet reallly.

Booooom, "his" team is looking pretty good, all of a sudden Glen Sather reemerge from the shadows. He has seen Ozolinsh at the OGs, and clearly is a driving factor in getting him mid-season. All of a sudden its Sather at the podium, he is back being the GM. Then he basically drives through among the worst UFA signings during the cap era with Redden, Gomez and Drury before backing away again eventually leaving over to Gorton, first off the record then the GM title included.

So this is the "great hockey minds" everyone is lifting to the skies right now, and a little recap of what went on before pay walls.
 
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DutchShamrock

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I feel like this is a bit of a false narrative? Who was buried? The young guys have gotten good ice time, but at the same time he wasn’t frying to force things. Fox gets a ton of ice. Miller too. Kakko and Lafreniere played plenty - neither were ever relegated to the 4th line if I remember correctly. I would’ve liked to see them get some more PP time, but they were hardly buried.

FWIW I have no issue moving on from DQ but I think this narrative is exaggerated and beaten to death.
Gauthier was buried. He had very good games, positive performances, that were followed by scratches. Literally the only negative from a game would be a hooking call. When someone has a net positive game only to be scratched, that's being buried. He isn't the only example over his tenure.

But I will concede that buried is a strong word. My issue is Quinn relying on someone like Howden or PDG over boom/bust options. Kravtsov shouldn't have been on the 4th, Quinn's assessment by the way, especially after everyone started dropping to injuries.

It's beaten to death but when it is denied over and over, I have to re-hash it. Quinn didn't trust the kids. @bleedblue94 nailed a few pages back with chytil.
 

DutchShamrock

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If there were ever any doubt Sather is firmly back in the mix it is plain as day in the tone, nuggets dropped, and all around confidence projected in Brooks’ writing lately.
Larry I hope they bought you dinner first.

This bit made me dry heave...if they think the solution here is building around Zibanejad as if he is an elite 1C...that’s all she wrote for this “rebuild”:



Just screams start of a multi article sales pitch ahead of big extension for Zibanejad. Hope to hell I’m wrong.
I'm not nitpicking your points, but Leslie (I could have the wrong reporter) made an allusion to Mika as well that seemed to indicate we will have more answers to what happened to him this season. My impression was we were going to learn how much he was impacted by Covid. So that Larry quote immediately made me think of that.
 

NYR Viper

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Buch is the guy who I could see returning a good center prospect. Zibanejad is probably futures.

Danault is probably looking for a Hayes-like contract. Pass if he gets close to that. However, if he is asking for 5 years, I'm in that boat.

Another guy I would like IF his contract demands are reasonable is a guy like Stastny. Get him signed for a couple of years and he's a nice stop-gap.

Same thing with a guy like Stepan is he would take a 1-2 year deal.

Nick Bonino is in that same vein. I'd be fine adding one of those guys as vet insurance assuming Zibanejad is moved and Chytil is thrust up in to the top-6.
 
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rangers1314

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Buch is the guy who I could see returning a good center prospect. Zibanejad is probably futures.

Danault is probably looking for a Hayes-like contract. Pass if he gets close to that. However, if he is asking for 5 years, I'm in that boat.

Another guy I would like IF his contract demands are reasonable is a guy like Stastny. Get him signed for a couple of years and he's a nice stop-gap.

Same thing with a guy like Stepan is he would take a 1-2 year deal.

Nick Bonino is in that same vein. I'd be fine adding one of those guys as vet insurance assuming Zibanejad is moved and Chytil is thrust up in to the top-6.

I love Stepan, love him. I thought he should have gotten the C over McD, but hes so beyond cooked. Plus, hes coming off major shoulder surgery.

I want him offered a job within this organization the nano second he decides to retire, but i want nothing to do with him as a player.
 

NYR Viper

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I love Stepan, love him. I thought he should have gotten the C over McD, but hes so beyond cooked. Plus, hes coming off major shoulder surgery.

I want him offered a job within this organization the nano second he decides to retire, but i want nothing to do with him as a player.

The key is term. Signing a guy like Stepan on a 1 year deal as a 'show me' isn't a bad thing. The team will have cap space next year to spend.
 

rangers1314

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The key is term. Signing a guy like Stepan on a 1 year deal as a 'show me' isn't a bad thing. The team will have cap space next year to spend.

No I get what you're saying totally, I just see a situation where Stepan is playing over a guy like Barron this place going ape.

If we're talking 1yr/1M, i mean fine. But I still think you can find a number of other "fliers" to take which offer better upside.
 

Leetch3

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The key is term. Signing a guy like Stepan on a 1 year deal as a 'show me' isn't a bad thing. The team will have cap space next year to spend.

I think stepan is toast at this point...but term is definitely a huge key. most of the depth signings we should be looking at 1-2 year deals.
 
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Oilers in NS

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I think we can agree that a legit heavyweight was needed last week against the Capitals. We happen to have one in Edmonton named Zach Kassian. Just wondering if there would be any interest in him from a Rangers point of view?
 

duhmetreE

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The chances of Barkov actually being available are what? slim to none. Eichel probably is available in some capacity. Gotta play the cards you are dealt. I'm sure most would rather have Barkov, but if he's not available what are you gonna do?
around the same probability of winning Laf and/or Kakko :sarcasm:
 

Kaapo Cabana

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I think we can agree that a legit heavyweight was needed last week against the Capitals. We happen to have one in Edmonton named Zach Kassian. Just wondering if there would be any interest in him from a Rangers point of view?
Thats a lot of money and term for a 30 year old injured tough guy.

you guys probably have to pay to move that contract
 
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Oilers in NS

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3 more years at 3.2.

Pass all day long.

Im sure something can be worked out, but u guys can keep on getting bullied like that if you wish. Protection costs money. Playing teams like the Caps, Bruins, Isles with legit tuff guys is gonna hurt u guys. Kinda reminds me of Dennis Potvin episode
 

Oilers in NS

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Thats a lot of money and term for a 30 year old injured tough guy.

you guys probably have to pay to move that contract

I would think. Its funny, in 2017, Kassian was great in the playoffs. It got him a sweet deal. Now he is invisible. I wonder if he is back on the blow. When he is on, he can skate, hit, score, etc. When he is not, he doesnt look engaged at all
 

Barnaby

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Gauthier was buried. He had very good games, positive performances, that were followed by scratches. Literally the only negative from a game would be a hooking call. When someone has a net positive game only to be scratched, that's being buried. He isn't the only example over his tenure.

But I will concede that buried is a strong word. My issue is Quinn relying on someone like Howden or PDG over boom/bust options. Kravtsov shouldn't have been on the 4th, Quinn's assessment by the way, especially after everyone started dropping to injuries.

It's beaten to death but when it is denied over and over, I have to re-hash it. Quinn didn't trust the kids. @bleedblue94 nailed a few pages back with chytil.

I agree on Gauthier, but the hope is that he is a bottom 6 player at best. He's not even a top 10 prospect in the organization. I'll agree that I would've liked to see more though.

Kravstov started on the 4th line for like 5-8 games immediately after coming from the KHL to be eased in then was promoted. I'm not going to lose my mind over that. They easily could have said he had no NHL experience and sat him during the playoff push. You don't just throw a kid on the top line day 1 because of their draft position.

He didn't nail anything with Chytil. He was the 3rd best center on the roster getting the 3rd most ice time. Was he to play over Zibanejad? Strome who had a very good year and has great chemistry with Panarin? He had a 1st and 2nd overall pick on his flanks.

I'm no Quinn super fan, but this narrative makes no sense to me. I don't remember once thinking a high level kid was 'buried.' Wasn't Fox among the leaders of TOI in the league? Didn't Miller spend a majority of the year with Trouba.
 
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rangers1314

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Im sure something can be worked out, but u guys can keep on getting bullied like that if you wish. Protection costs money. Playing teams like the Caps, Bruins, Isles with legit tuff guys is gonna hurt u guys. Kinda reminds me of Dennis Potvin episode

Plenty of other options that don't carry that term and cap hit.
 
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