Salary Cap: Roster Building | Contract Charts 1st Post | See You On The Dark Side Of The Moon

[madinsomniac]

The thing is that Detroit is in a **** situation to match a fairly low offer sheet. It's in the article but their cap situation is godawful and they have a lot of brutal contracts.

Still you are likely talking about a 3.5 to 4 mil contract for an unproven guy to keep them from realistically matching without dumping Zetterberg.... the speculation ive heard was they will sign him once the franzen money goes to ltir...

I mean if you are gambling on a guy he is a nice risk, but still id rather hope someone else offersheets him and they have to dump HZ with significant retention... iirc he is one of the guys with no ntc right?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Still you are likely talking about a 3.5 to 4 mil contract for an unproven guy to keep them from realistically matching without dumping Zetterberg.... the speculation ive heard was they will sign him once the franzen money goes to ltir...

I mean if you are gambling on a guy he is a nice risk, but still id rather hope someone else offersheets him and they have to dump HZ with significant retention... iirc he is one of the guys with no ntc right?

Zetterberg has no NTC but it's a big contract to move and he's on one of those recapture contracts. Loyalty could also kill dumping him. Even with Franzen on LTIR the best I can figure is that they have ~1.2M in cap space if they have 2G, 7D and another 12F on the roster.

I'm not going to say they couldn't open up cap space to re-sign him but their cap situation is so bad that they might not be able to match even 2.5M and a lot of their contracts are bad. Moving a big contract in August wouldn't exactly be easy for a GM either. It's just some really bad work by Holland that could bite them in the ass.

My problem would be that from everything I've read he hasn't played much C in the NHL.

 

[jolly roger]

Still you are likely talking about a 3.5 to 4 mil contract for an unproven guy to keep them from realistically matching without dumping Zetterberg.... the speculation ive heard was they will sign him once the franzen money goes to ltir...

I mean if you are gambling on a guy he is a nice risk, but still id rather hope someone else offersheets him and they have to dump HZ with significant retention... iirc he is one of the guys with no ntc right?

They're over the cap now with all the bad contracts. Even with Franzen on ltir they have less than $1 mil cap space. The only way out is a trade. So it looks to me like you can get AA on an offer sheet (who cares if Ken Holland likes the Pens? He doesn't .), or Sheahan for picks. Btw, Sheahan had all of 2 goals last year, both scored in the last game. I can't think he's in Rutherford's view. AA was #1 star in Pittsburgh last year preseason and looked awesome against the Pens. And I don't think it's that high for him on an offer sheet that the RedWings can't match. They're in cap hell.

 

[Riptide]

Rutherford better not go into the season with Rowney as our 3C and Dea as our 4C. He'd be competing with Bergevin for the worst GM this summer if this happens.

Most people consider June 11th to be part of the summer months. Pretty sure that there's many teams who've had a worse summer then we've had.

 

[Riptide]

I'm hoping the Pens go after this kid. His speed fits us perfectly. Here's a great article out of Detroit where the fans are worried about losing Athanasiou because of an incompetent GM

https://wingsnation.com/2017/08/19/four-reasons-why-an-athanasiou-offer-sheet-makes-perfec

"Even with Franzen going on LTIR come the start of the season they’re still only working with roughly $1.9M in cap space, which probably isn’t enough to keep AA around for any decent amount of time."

I don't even see how they have 1.9m in cap space. You put Franzen on IR, and with the cheapest fill in forwards/D that I could find, they have 235k in cap space with 13F/7D/2G.

If they want to sign AA for anything more than 1.1m, they have to move bodies. Unless they have someone else who'll be going onto IR that will open up some cap space.

Still you are likely talking about a 3.5 to 4 mil contract for an unproven guy to keep them from realistically matching without dumping Zetterberg.... the speculation ive heard was they will sign him once the franzen money goes to ltir...

It won't matter. Go play around with Arm Chair GM and try to put together any sort of roster without making a trade. They have zero cap space with none incoming unless they move a body or someone other than Franzen is going to go onto LTIR this fall.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Knowing how JR/Sully/Ventura operate now, AA is probably their prime target(fast, great adv. stats) from DET and a guy like Sheahan is the guy they could get on the cheap.

Thats why he/they wait.

 

[TheMalkinEra]

If he leaves, I expect he's looking for Ladd/Lucic money. And he'd easily get it if he goes to free agency. He could get 5.5 or 6 mil for 6 years. I think 6 years is more likely than 3. And I think anything under 5.5 mil would be a discount.

And both teams that signed Lucic and Ladd are having buyers remorse and worried that at the end of the contract those player will be dead weight to there cap. I love what Hornqvist has done but lets wait till end of the season and see how much he has left in the tank.

The sad truth is that power forwards in the NHL are like female porn stars. They have few great years in there prime where they are at there best and everybody realizes there greatness. But there bodies can only take so much pounding before the wear and tear tales it toll and there no longer are effective like they were there prime years.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

We're really gonna go into the season with Sid and Geno as our only two legitimate, NHL-caliber centers, eh?

Whatever, as long as we find the right guy before the deadline, I don't even care. Gonna need Sid and Geno to stay healthy though, and that's a big gamble, especially with Geno.

 

[WayneSid9987]

We're really gonna go into the season with Sid and Geno as our only two legitimate, NHL-caliber centers, eh?

Whatever, as long as we find the right guy before the deadline, I don't even care. Gonna need Sid and Geno to stay healthy though, and that's a big gamble, especially with Geno.

I really don't see that happening unless JR+Sully are super comfortable playing Jake @ 3C which i believe they are not.

Let's say they can't land their 3C before the season starts.

1) they could make a smaller trade for a C that settles down to the 4C spot and the 3C search continues.

2a) they bring in a vet C or 2 on PTO's in case injury strikes in camp/pre-season. ie. with Pouliot+Archibald atm it's a 23 man roster. Let's say a roster player gets injured in camp/pre-season. JR can simply sign the vet C on the cheap. 3C search continues.

2b) they go with what they have and if injury strikes in camp/pre-season/start of the season, they turn to the waiver wire to pick up a C to help. 3C search continues.

If no 3C is landed before we play for realsies, i believe you'll atleast see one of the above.

Because Pooh+Archie sets the roster @ 23, i don't see JR simply signing a vet C unless he deals away a roster player beforehand. Think JR would prefer to make a smaller trade for a guy that settles into the 4C spot than just trading a roster player for the sake of signing a UFA vet. Why i believe a guy on a PTO is a stronger possibility.

 

[Matsun]

The sad truth is that power forwards in the NHL are like female porn stars. They have few great years in there prime where they are at there best and everybody realizes there greatness. But there bodies can only take so much pounding before the wear and tear tales it toll and there no longer are effective like they were there prime years.

You just became my favorite poster.

 

[Rufus]

Rutherford better not go into the season with Rowney as our 3C and Dea as our 4C. He'd be competing with Bergevin for the worst GM this summer if this happens.

Ask Jim Nill how winning the offseason turns out

 

[Rufus]

I support a Hornqvist extension 100%. May be a good idea to do it now rather than after the season to see if you could get a bit of a discount. $5x5 is a bit steep, but he's worth that as long as he stays healthy.

Also, AA would fit the profile of someone JR would be interested in: speedy, known Penguin killer.

Zetterberg has no NTC but it's a big contract to move and he's on one of those recapture contracts. Loyalty could also kill dumping him. Even with Franzen on LTIR the best I can figure is that they have ~1.2M in cap space if they have 2G, 7D and another 12F on the roster.

I'm not going to say they couldn't open up cap space to re-sign him but their cap situation is so bad that they might not be able to match even 2.5M and a lot of their contracts are bad. Moving a big contract in August wouldn't exactly be easy for a GM either. It's just some really bad work by Holland that could bite them in the ass.

My problem would be that from everything I've read he hasn't played much C in the NHL.

Loyalty definitely kills any deal for Zetterberg. Holland always sticks to his old, sometimes broken down veterans regardless of effectiveness.

 

[madinsomniac]

Right but the fnyou think the red wings dont move someone and resign AA if the deal is under 2 million thats kind of unbelievable... over 3 and who they would have to move would be painful to fill out the roster

 

[Empoleon8771]

There are two issues with bringing in AA, he hasn't played center in the NHL which means you're gambling on him being able to play center and the Wings probably want to keep every young player they have. I think what will happen is they trade Sheahan for literally nothing (or even possibly waive him) and then use that money to sign AA.

 

[The Old Master]

Right but the fnyou think the red wings dont move someone and resign AA if the deal is under 2 million thats kind of unbelievable... over 3 and who they would have to move would be painful to fill out the roster

I think a trade could be worked out that would be more than fare for both teams.

 

[jolly roger]

There are two issues with bringing in AA, he hasn't played center in the NHL which means you're gambling on him being able to play center and the Wings probably want to keep every young player they have. I think what will happen is they trade Sheahan for literally nothing (or even possibly waive him) and then use that money to sign AA.

You could well be right.
I'd just sooner have AA if the deal could be cut. I just don't see Sheahan as the prototypical Rutherford type player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You could well be right.
I'd just sooner have AA if the deal could be cut. I just don't see Sheahan as the prototypical Rutherford type player.

Yeah I agree, but I don't know how that deal would work. The Wings need high talent young players right now, which the Penguins really don't have to spare. The Wings are in an absolute mess right now, they have no identity, a ton of old and underperforming players and a pretty bleak future.

 

[madinsomniac]

I think a trade could be worked out that would be more than fare for both teams.

That would make sense... again its a gamble, but if it works it fixes 3c for a prolonged period and in a worse case scenerio it makes another higher end winger expendable for a trade for a 3c

 

[madinsomniac]

Yeah I agree, but I don't know how that deal would work. The Wings need high talent young players right now, which the Penguins really don't have to spare. The Wings are in an absolute mess right now, they have no identity, a ton of old and underperforming players and a pretty bleak future.

Yeah i knew they had a lot of ntc / nmc contracts but i was amazed to see the shear number of them...

I have no idea what their gameplan is/ was

 

[The Old Master]

There are two issues with bringing in AA, he hasn't played center in the NHL which means you're gambling on him being able to play center and the Wings probably want to keep every young player they have. I think what will happen is they trade Sheahan for literally nothing (or even possibly waive him) and then use that money to sign AA.

with aa there are some risks, with how he does at center one of them. his fo% is a little less than50% but with good wings to help you might be surprised how well he might do. with the style we play wings and centers change all the time so out side of some dee assignment's it doesn't make a big deference. imo......the biggest question mark is can we get consistency from him....he has all the tools but is he willing to do the work?

 

[madinsomniac]

with aa there are some risks, with how he does at center one of them. his fo% is a little less than50% but with good wings to help you might be surprised how well he might do. with the style we play wings and centers change all the time so out side of some dee assignment's it doesn't make a big deference. imo......the biggest question mark is can we get consistency from him....he has all the tools but is he willing to do the work?

Also the wings really didn't give him a shot at center much... because of inconsistency... its weird what extended practice at one spot can do for a guy....

The question becomes who is the defensive stalwart on wing you pair him with... cause i do not want him being the defensive guy on his line.... Hagelin maybe?

 

[The Old Master]

Also the wings really didn't give him a shot at center much... because of inconsistency... its weird what extended practice at one spot can do for a guy....

The question becomes who is the defensive stalwart on wing you pair him with... cause i do not want him being the defensive guy on his line.... Hagelin maybe?

hag's has the speed to keep up. with the speed that aa has plus hags, they should have no problem covering the ice and then some.
if aa is willing to put in the work he should be fine defensively.

 

[PensandCaps]

Hags-AA-Rust. Goddamn that line would be fast. Not sure if it would be good but surely fast. If the pens offer sheeted AA right now, then the wings would be forced to move someone as they wouldn't be able to wait to put Franzen on LTIR.

 

[Shady Machine]

Depends on where else. LV? No, not a chance. Nashville or Washington or NYR (or whatever other team you feel is right close to being a contender)? I think it would be much more likely that he would.

I agree, but I don't think those teams can really afford him. Washington has to re-sign Eller, Wilson, Beagle, and Carlsson next summer. Carlsson is going to get at least 5MM, probably 6MM. That raise alone takes them out of the running for Hornqvist unless they move out salary elsewhere.

Rangers have to re-sign Nash, Hayes, Miller, Grabner, Vesey, Skjei. I suppose they could let Nash walk and replace with Hornqvist, but that would be an odd move and I still think they need another center to replace Stepan.

Nashville might make sense as they appeared to sign Hartnell to replace the spot left by Neal. Hornqvist would slide right into that spot.

Dammit don't lose Horny to Nashville JR.

 

[Shady Machine]

There are two issues with bringing in AA, he hasn't played center in the NHL which means you're gambling on him being able to play center and the Wings probably want to keep every young player they have. I think what will happen is they trade Sheahan for literally nothing (or even possibly waive him) and then use that money to sign AA.

Yup that's the most likely scenario. I think they can trade Sheahan for a 3rd since he's still relatively cheap on the cap with some upside.

I just don't want the Pens to be the team to get Sheahan as I think there are better cheap options out there.