Salary Cap: Roster Building | Contract Charts 1st Post | See You On The Dark Side Of The Moon

[PensandCaps]

You have an interesting view of disasters if you think a 4-5 year deal at 4.5MM is one.

5x5 is too rich for me, but I don't think it will take that.

Agreed. Anything in the 4.5 range is perfect for Hornqvist. Certainly not a disaster. But if he wants 5+, you have to let him walk. He could certainly get 5+ on the open market. But i think He'll stay here at around the same price he already makes.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

It would be a disaster to sign Horny to a med-length, mid-salary deal.

Term or money. Pick one Pat.

1-2yr x $4.5mil+

or

3+ yrs x $3mil.

If he falls off a cliff, which many who play his style do, he can't become a cap anchor. I worry. 31 is not the ideal age to have to resign someone like him.

5yr x $5mil? Disaster written all over it.

Another team would easily give Horny 5-6mil per.

 

[PensPlz]

If anyone thinks Hornqvist doesn't get a pay increase is silly. He easily gets 5.5 per on the open market.

I don't see why he take a discount to stay here. He's already won 2 cups. Get that retirement money.

 

[PensandCaps]

Even at 5.5mil if the pens were to give that to him, that contract is still moveable when we need to clear space to sign Rust,Guentzel and Sprong.

 

[Andy99]

He's getting closer to 5x5 than either of those other deals. Either would be almost insultingly low to offer him. I'll be shocked if he goes under 4m regardless of length. And I'd expect him to cost near 6 for anything short term.

Totally agree. Some other team is going to offer him 5 years at around 5 mil and that's what it's going to take to re-sign him if he doesn't fall off a cliff this year. I hope that JR waits to see what he has in ZAR and Sprong and how the other wings overall are playing in season before he decides on an extension. He should wait til the end of the year. It's risky....

 

[Shady Machine]

If anyone thinks Hornqvist doesn't get a pay increase is silly. He easily gets 5.5 per on the open market.

I don't see why he take a discount to stay here. He's already won 2 cups. Get that retirement money.

I would guess, could be wrong, that Horny would be looking for term more than maximizing cap hit. He is the ultimate competitor and has the drive to keep winning. Unless another serious contender is offering him 5.5MM on a long term deal, I believe he'd take a discount to stay here.

Keep in mind he's already earned over 30MM in career earnings through the end of this year. This isn't a guy like Bones who never had a serious payday. He does deserve a raise as the market has gone up since his signed his prior deal, but is 5MM more over 5 years worth playing for a mediocre to good team vs a great team?

Let's say he gets a 4.75 x 5 offer from Pittsburgh. That's another 23.75MM on top of the 32ish MM he's made already. Would he really turn that down to make 5.5MM somewhere else?

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

If anyone thinks Hornqvist doesn't get a pay increase is silly. He easily gets 5.5 per on the open market.

I don't see why he take a discount to stay here. He's already won 2 cups. Get that retirement money.

I do not think he takes a discount at all, 5-5.5M is completely reasonable for him. Just like I said, I hope its on a 4 year deal. 3 years would be AMAZING, but probably gets 4, at max I would give him 5. So 4/5 Years X 5-5.5M that is a very reasonable contract for him. But I fully agree there is NO WAY he takes a discount to stay here, no way. It will be his last real payday. Sure he may play till 36-38 years old, but this will be his last significant payday. And on it he will be just coming off of a back to back winning cup team. Hornqvist will flat out get paid, if its open market I could even see him making more than 5.5M, not much but more, with us he will assuredly still want a raise, but he probably doesn't shoot for the moon on that raise to stay. Hopefully.

 

[Shady Machine]

I do not think he takes a discount at all, 5.5M is completely reasonable for him. Just like I said, I hope its on a 4 year deal. 3 years would be AMAZING, but probably gets 4, at max I would give him 5. So 4/5 Years X 5.5M that is a very reasonable contract for him. But I fully agree there is NO WAY he takes a discount to stay here, no way. It will be his last real payday. Sure he may play till 36-38 years old, but this will be his last significant payday. And on it he will be just coming off of a back to back winning cup team. Hornqvist will flat out get paid, if its open market I could even see him making more than 5.5M, not much but more, with us he will assuredly still want a raise, but he probably doesn't shoot for the moon on that raise to stay. Hopefully.

Every player wants something different and you have to consider career earnings as well. Generally speaking, players that leave after Cup runs usually do so because the market values them WAY above what their prior team can afford and they haven't earned a lot in their career thus far. Lovejoy, Bones, and likely Cole are examples of that for the Pens.

Cullen, for example, could have likely gotten a lot more coming off of the Cup last year, but he's earned a lot in his career and had family considerations. Take Shattenkirk as another example. The dude took way less term to go to the place he grew up. The point is, not every player is purely trying to maximize earnings.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If he leaves, I expect he's looking for Ladd/Lucic money. And he'd easily get it if he goes to free agency. He could get 5.5 or 6 mil for 6 years. I think 6 years is more likely than 3. And I think anything under 5.5 mil would be a discount.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Every player wants something different and you have to consider career earnings as well. Generally speaking, players that leave after Cup runs usually do so because the market values them WAY above what their prior team can afford and they haven't earned a lot in their career thus far. Lovejoy, Bones, and likely Cole are examples of that for the Pens.

Cullen, for example, could have likely gotten a lot more coming off of the Cup last year, but he's earned a lot in his career and had family considerations. Take Shattenkirk as another example. The dude took way less term to go to the place he grew up. The point is, not every player is purely trying to maximize earnings.

Until I see otherwise from any given player I assume money talks, because more often than not. It does. If you are looking at it from an odds perspective, betting on money/term is always the safe bet. Now do I hope he would take a discount or shorter term, yes... Who wouldn't that's a fan of the team? Its just until players show me otherwise, otherwise being outside considerations like you mentioned and a deal is pen to paper complete. I always assume money/term is the driving force.

 

[66-30-33]

Give me Soderberg for 3C and Karlsson or Drew Shore for 4C.

If he leaves, I expect he's looking for Ladd/Lucic money. And he'd easily get it if he goes to free agency. He could get 5.5 or 6 mil for 6 years. I think 6 years is more likely than 3. And I think anything under 5.5 mil would be a discount.

Yeah, I don't see Pens keeping Hornqvist much longer. He will sign with a bubble team for 6 years and half that contract will be regret.

 

[Shaffer]

Give me Soderberg for 3C and Karlsson or Drew Shore for 4C

I'm on board. Pouliot+4th for Soderberg at 40-50% retained.

Wilson+3rd for Karlsson

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'm on board. Pouliot+4th for Soderberg at 40-50% retained.

Wilson+3rd for Karlsson

I too would like getting a free 3C with retention.

 

[66-30-33]

I'm on board. Pouliot+4th for Soderberg at 40-50% retained.

Wilson+3rd for Karlsson

I got it. Pens trade for Duchene and Soderberg. Duchene at 30% and Soderberg at 20%. 3C and 4C are now filled!

 

[Shaffer]

I got it. Pens trade for Duchene and Soderberg. Duchene at 30% and Soderberg at 20%. 3C and 4C are now filled!

I meant Erik Karlsson

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd be fine with Hornqvist at $5 million on a 5 year deal. Ideally it would be a year or two shorter, but $5 million per year is very workable with the Penguins. It's only $750k more than he makes right now.

 

[TheMalkinEra]

Ive heard it said that Rust has played center in the past, but Kessel I have absolutely no idea.

Kessel played Some C in College and played some C early in his career including most of the first half of the 2007-2008 season and was 4th that year on the Bruins in total faceoffs.

 

[wheelz87]

Yea that's important to remember too. A Hornqvist raise, assuming the new deal is between 5-5.5 million, is not a big jump from his current deal but rather perhaps only a million jump in the cap hit. No Schultz/Dumo/Sheary type of an increase here. A very marginal impact on our cap.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea that's important to remember too. A Hornqvist raise, assuming the new deal is between 5-5.5 million, is not a big jump from his current deal but rather perhaps only a million jump in the cap hit. No Schultz/Dumo/Sheary type of an increase here. A very marginal impact on our cap.

Plus, I don't think you have a hard time moving the contract out once Jake and Sprong are eligble for their pay increases.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I think he takes a modest raise (kind of like Kunitz did) in that realm of 4.8 x 4/5.

He knows this team needs him and the team knows it as well. If it produces anything close to another cup it was well worth it.

You can't turn on him when he slows down, you know who you are.

 

[TheMalkinEra]

haha yeah guys chill out and just play wingers at the center position. problem SOLVED.

That what Blackhawks did during past several years. In 2010 this winger depth was Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Byfluigen,Ladd,Versteeg and Brouwer. So they used guys like Sharp and also Versteeg alittle at Center to win that cup. In 2011-2012 Kane played most of that year a C in stead of RW and the black hawks have used guys like Saad also some at C.

The 90 penguins were loaded with players who moved back and fourth from wing to center. Recchi.Mullen, McEarchern,Straka,Nedved,Smolinski,Barnes,Olyczk,and Titov.

In92-93 when Number 99 was out for half of the season, Jarri Kurri moved to C and did a great job and played most of rest of his career at C. The next year Trevor Linden moved to C after playing Rw for his first 6 seasons to center a line between Bure and Greg Adams the year Canucks want to the final vs Rangers.

 

[Andy99]

Plus, I don't think you have a hard time moving the contract out once Jake and Sprong are eligble for their pay increases.

You understand that Jake and Sprong are eligible for raises after the season just as Horny would be signing. Sprong is a RFA and Jake would have completed second year of ELC just as McDavid signed this summer. If Jake does really well this year again, the team may look to sign him long term just as they are contemplating re-signing Horny

 

[Andy99]

That what Blackhawks did during past several years. In 2010 this winger depth was Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Byfluigen,Ladd,Versteeg and Brouwer. So they used guys like Sharp and also Versteeg alittle at Center to win that cup. In 2011-2012 Kane played most of that year a C in stead of RW and the black hawks have used guys like Saad also some at C.

The 90 penguins were loaded with players who moved back and fourth from wing to center. Recchi.Mullen, McEarchern,Straka,Nedved,Smolinski,Barnes,Olyczk,and Titov.

In92-93 when Number 99 was out for half of the season, Jarri Kurri moved to C and did a great job and played most of rest of his career at C. The next year Trevor Linden moved to C after playing Rw for his first 6 seasons to center a line between Bure and Greg Adams the year Canucks want to the final vs Rangers.

I actually suggested a month ago as we were still discussing this 3C conundrum that Kessel be used as 3C and I was laughed at for the most part. But I was thinking of the Hawks as a model. Kessel works best dominating a line and he likes to carry the puck too, which is why he and Geno sometimes fight over the puck. I think he'd make a decent option on the third line to run his own line and we could put strong defensive wings with him like Rust and Hags, maybe Rowney. The latter could take all the face offs, or someone. Then we could run a fourth with Blueger or whomever AHL center plays best

 

[Ogrezilla]

You understand that Jake and Sprong are eligible for raises after the season just as Horny would be signing. Sprong is a RFA and Jake would have completed second year of ELC just as McDavid signed this summer. If Jake does really well this year again, the team may look to sign him long term just as they are contemplating re-signing Horny

Sprong is due for a new deal after this season along with Hornqvist. But Sprong hasn't even played in the NHL yet.

Guentzel isn't due for a new contract until after the 18-19 season.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I'd be fine with Hornqvist at $5 million on a 5 year deal. Ideally it would be a year or two shorter, but $5 million per year is very workable with the Penguins. It's only $750k more than he makes right now.

Yeah, I would have no issue giving him that deal. We need him for the rest of our window. And I have no idea why people keep saying "someone who plays his style breaks down", there's little evidence to support that, and a ton of examples of guys who play like PH who were very productive through 40.

He's not Kunitz, he doesn't rely on speed.