Salary Cap: Roster Building | Contract Charts 1st Post | See You On The Dark Side Of The Moon

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The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
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Bjugstad is probably reasonable. I would be amazed if we got Larkin. Faska would be great. AA would be good but he's played wing so far in NHL. I'm all in for Bozak if we can get him extended by like 3yrs/4.5m

if the wing is good enough.....it would hurt a lot less if we have to move Jake to center
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,516
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If they could swing a deal for Nielsen at 50 percent retained, even at the length of his contract it would be worth it. Doubt DET would do that but he's almost a perfect two way center for us. Of course, who knows what he'll look like at 38 or so when his contract ends

We would be paying a massive price for that. Asking Detroit to pay out 12m to make him go away just isn't going to happen. At least not without ponying up big to make it worth it for them.

Yeah, with the length of that deal, Detroit's not retaining that much. At least not without the Pens paying a hefty, hefty price to convince them it's worth it. So any acquisition of Nielsen would essentially be at or very near full salary.

Having said that, to be honest, the more I think about it the less worried I am about term. His play style tends to age well (relies more on smarts and positioning than on physical skills). The only issue is that salary for a 3C, though I suppose he could always get some shifts next to Malkin in the top six as well.

I just think that the type of player Nielsen is, he'd be great for the Pens in that 3C spot. Excellent on the PK, good defensive center, who is also offensively talented enough that his line would be a threat to score as well, especially if they decide to put someone like Kessel on there to spread the offense around.
 

cygnus47

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Sep 14, 2013
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It's funny when I hear people talk about the Pens managing Crosby and Malkin's minutes over the year to keep them fresh for the playoffs but then dismiss the impact of reducing the physical toll they take during those minutes over the course of a season.

If they have to fight less, that helps. If they take fewer targeted cross-checks and punches to the face, that helps. And if guys like Dubinsky and Staal don't stop, it'll help that we have one player who will inflict punishment to them and/or their stars in kind.

They fought once between them all season. There is no evidence that having an enforcer reduces punishment on players. Increases in staged fights and stupid penalties though.

[QUOTE/]

You're essentially making an argument against yourself here.

We don't know how Reaves addressing it would affect Malkin's reaction, but we do know how Malkin reacts when there is no Reaves. He makes dirty hits and then has to answer for them. There's at least potential for the situation to play out differently if we have someone else to step up.

I'm all for seeing how Reaves addresses it, because it's better than doing absolutely nothing and expecting things to turn out differently.[/QUOTE]

Turning out differently than winning the cup twice in a row? Is that something we want?

We'll be worse off for it every time he steps on the ice and he takes away ice time from potentially useful players. Best case he doesn't play at all in the playoffs and we just traded down from a first round pick and lost Sundqvist.
 

SCPens

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Feb 9, 2008
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They fought once between them all season. There is no evidence that having an enforcer reduces punishment on players. Increases in staged fights and stupid penalties though.

You're essentially making an argument against yourself here.

We don't know how Reaves addressing it would affect Malkin's reaction, but we do know how Malkin reacts when there is no Reaves. He makes dirty hits and then has to answer for them. There's at least potential for the situation to play out differently if we have someone else to step up.

I'm all for seeing how Reaves addresses it, because it's better than doing absolutely nothing and expecting things to turn out differently.

Turning out differently than winning the cup twice in a row? Is that something we want?

We'll be worse off for it every time he steps on the ice and he takes away ice time from potentially useful players. Best case he doesn't play at all in the playoffs and we just traded down from a first round pick and lost Sundqvist.

Well this team won't be winning a 3rd straight Cup if they continue to receive the gutless BS treatment they've been on the wrong end of the past couple or so seasons. You know nothing about the game Reeves plays if you insist "we'll be worse off for it every time he steps on the ice and he takes away ice time from potentially useful players.". And just for the record, whether it was one or three fights between Sid and Geno last season it was still one or three too many fights. Reeves is here to take care of all of the "dirty business" that Sid and Geno shouldn't be concerning themselves with in the first place.
 

mpp9

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Dec 5, 2010
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Capfriendly has the Stars roster at 24 players. I expect they will just waive someone to become cap compliant, but man would I love to target one of Janmark, Shore, or Faksa.

From Detroit, I'd love Larkin or AA, but Sheahan seems like the only likely one and he's low on my list.

From Toronto, it's Bozak or bust for me.

I'm less convinced Kessel is here for the few seasons. Trading what it'd take to pry Bozak from what looks like a team we could face in the ECF and then have to re-sign him for probably 5 mil? Not sure about that anymore.

Much more intrigued with a younger guy with upside. Bjugstad in particular. Haven't had size at 3C in a long time. Give us another dimension.
 

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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So they should have told Cullen to go pound sand then and signed Moore on July 1st even though they had no idea what Cullen would decide on? Sounds like you'd be a great GM. Yeah, let's not patiently wait on the guy who made the Penguins 4th line elite in 2 cup runs, let's just tell him to take it or leave it and go sign someone worse just so some random HF poster has one less thing to complain about on August 28th. But let's not kid ourselves, you'd just be complaining about something else.

I never said tell him to pound sand. I'm not 75 years old so I wouldn't use that expression. I just said you can't afford to sit around all summer waiting for him (his wife) to decide his future. It took him until mid-August to make the decision last summer. Rutherford knew it wasn't going to be quick. I was stating this back in early summer it was a poor decision to wait on Cullen all summer and I was ridiculed, as always, with the it's only June! It's only July! It's only August crap. Here we are it's nearly September and we have McClement and some AHL guys lined up for the spot.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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I never said tell him to pound dirt. I just said you can't afford to sit around all summer waiting for him (his wife) to decide his future. It took him until mid-August to make the decision last summer. Rutherford knew it wasn't going to be quick. I was stating this back in early summer it was a poor decision to wait on Cullen all summer and I was ridiculed, as always, with the it's only June! It's only July! It's only August crap. Here we are it's nearly September and we have McClement and some AHL guys lined up for the spot.

And to get Moore, you basically had to tell Cullen "decide by July 1st or we don't want you back". Because that's what happened in reality, Moore signed on July 1st. That's basically telling Cullen "You're not worth waiting on, so inconvenience yourself or don't come back". This isn't NHL 18, these are real people.
 

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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This isn't NHL 18, these are real people.

This is the type of reasoning that held back the team under Shero. This is why Dupuis played so long with Crosby; why Craig Adams stuck around, why Kunitz was on this team the last 3 years, etc.

This is a business. The most important thing to do is build a winner. Twiddling your fingers all summer because a guy is nice is insane.

You say hey Matt, we would love to have you back but we are in a jam right now. Can you not take 2 months to decide?
 

SCPens

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Feb 9, 2008
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I never said tell him to pound dirt. I just said you can't afford to sit around all summer waiting for him (his wife) to decide his future. It took him until mid-August to make the decision last summer. Rutherford knew it wasn't going to be quick. I was stating this back in early summer it was a poor decision to wait on Cullen all summer and I was ridiculed, as always, with the it's only June! It's only July! It's only August crap. Here we are it's nearly September and we have McClement and some AHL guys lined up for the spot.

Rowney contributed throughout the playoffs to the Pens 2nd consecutive Stanley Cup. He's an NHL player. And McClement isn't signed to a contract, he was given a PTO. Rutherford's still working on a deal for a 3C. Cullen didn't give his answer last summer until mid-August, that's why you kept hearing: it's only June, it's only July, and it's only August. The right move was to wait on Cullen (and his family's) decision. You can sit there and cry about whatever it is you're upset about by yourself. Well perhaps I shouldn't say that, there's atleast a couple of others around here that share your keen hindsight. :shakehead
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
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I shouldn't say that, there's atleast a couple of others around here that share your keen hindsight. :shakehead

I've been saying this all summer. This is the reason why I've been vocal because I knew you people would bust out hindsight is 20/20 bs. Any time a decision is questionable by a pens' gm people use this pathetic excuse.

This board:

How was he supposed to know there would only be garbage players available in late August????
 

madinsomniac

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Jul 3, 2012
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While it might not have a material impact... at least my emotional demands for someone to step up and deal with the **** will now get answered. That first Winnipeg game last year (Feb 16th?) enraged me like few have. At least now however we have someone who can go out there and hand out retribution, physical payback and answer whatever bells might be needed.

Will that make us a better team? I think not - at least if we're being honest. But it will make us a more entertaining team. And there's always the possibility that Reaves can help Crosby and Malkin's game.

As long as people admit that the fighting is simply to appease the vendetta aspect and doesn't hold some illogical magical ability to keep a team safe or healthy...

Everyone loves a good fight or a hard hit, but the fight probably isn't going to get the guy who deserves it the most and hits can help or hurt a team if it becomes a distraction or takes guys out of position to land them....

If Reaves were signed as a ufa or if he had more than a year left on the deal i think most of the naysayers like myself would be indifferent to it... it just seems like a lot to have given up for something that isnt that big a deal in this nhl
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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This is the type of reasoning that held back the team under Shero. This is why Dupuis played so long with Crosby; why Craig Adams stuck around, why Kunitz was on this team the last 3 years, etc.

This is a business. The most important thing to do is build a winner. Twiddling your fingers all summer because a guy is nice is insane.

It's amazing how you're incapable of understanding this. This isn't a case where you're trying to just keep a guy because he's nice, this is a case of waiting on a good player that has been instrumental in 2 cup runs. The fact you're dismissing it as "just waiting because a guy is nice" just shows how insanely biased you are with this. It's completely unfair because you're treating players as if they're not normal people.

You say hey Matt, we would love to have you back but we are in a jam right now. Can you not take 2 months to decide?

That's not what you're doing. This is saying "decide by July 1st because you're not worth us waiting for you". This isn't asking a guy to decide quickly, you're telling a guy to decide within 3 weeks (assuming you tell him this after they won the cup) or he's not welcome back.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,516
46,232
I never said tell him to pound sand. I'm not 75 years old so I wouldn't use that expression. I just said you can't afford to sit around all summer waiting for him (his wife) to decide his future. It took him until mid-August to make the decision last summer. Rutherford knew it wasn't going to be quick. I was stating this back in early summer it was a poor decision to wait on Cullen all summer and I was ridiculed, as always, with the it's only June! It's only July! It's only August crap. Here we are it's nearly September and we have McClement and some AHL guys lined up for the spot.

And if JR had signed Moore, then in late August Cullen decided he did want to return to the Pens? Rushing means the Pens end up with an inferior player and unable to sign a superior one. It was worth the risk to wait since we've seen what Cullen brings.

At the end of the day, you would have just found something else to complain about. Even if Rutherford signs Moore? You'd probably ignore that and focus on the hole at 3C to complain about.
 

Rufus

Letangarang
May 27, 2014
1,929
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And if JR had signed Moore, then in late August Cullen decided he did want to return to the Pens? Rushing means the Pens end up with an inferior player and unable to sign a superior one. It was worth the risk to wait since we've seen what Cullen brings.

At the end of the day, you would have just found something else to complain about. Even if Rutherford signs Moore? You'd probably ignore that and focus on the hole at 3C to complain about.

If we signed Moore and Cullen came back and signed with Minnesota, people would complain about how JR signing Moore forced Cullen to sign elsewhere. Everyone is a GM who could do a better job than JR.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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If we signed Moore and Cullen came back and signed with Minnesota, people would complain about how JR signing Moore forced Cullen to sign elsewhere. Everyone is a GM who could do a better job than JR.

I didn't even think about that, but that's entirely right. That's exactly the line people would use.
 

Rufus

Letangarang
May 27, 2014
1,929
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This is the type of reasoning that held back the team under Shero. This is why Dupuis played so long with Crosby; why Craig Adams stuck around, why Kunitz was on this team the last 3 years, etc.

This is a business. The most important thing to do is build a winner. Twiddling your fingers all summer because a guy is nice is insane.

You say hey Matt, we would love to have you back but we are in a jam right now. Can you not take 2 months to decide?

FYI, it probably took till July 1st for Cullen's body to just heal after playing a full season plus an entire playoffs. He probably took some time to see if his body could handle the grind of another season. Cullen wasn't just sitting on his butt chilling out until mid August. Loyalty can be damning for some teams, but going to the opposite end and exhibiting little to no loyalty to a player who played at a well-below market value salary for the last two years is a good way to start alienating your locker room. Plus, if you think JR has just been twiddling his thumbs all summer, then you must think he has been lying about all the work he's done
 

WayneSid9987

Registered User
Nov 24, 2009
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Way i look at it, JR probably looked at Hanzal, maybe but it's still a little too expensive for his blood.
Pretty sure he never looked at Boyle at all.
And he never pursured Moore cuz it was Cullen or go with Rowney vs a PTO vs McKegg, etc. for the 4C to start.

It was always gonna be trading for his 3C, been that way since Bones signed in NSH or even before that when JR knew he wasn't gonna pay Bones over 4M for 4yrs.

Prices for JR and PIT specifically will always remain pretty high other than they organically go up closer to the TDL. BUT things can change in a hurry. As i've mentioned the Hagelin's and Daley's were securely on ANA and CHI's roster at this point in the summer of 2015. Training camps will push youngsters higher on other teams' depth charts then vets. Decent bubble players will hit the waiver wire. Theres a brand spankin' new team that'll probably look to wheel and deal a bit this season.

JR knows all of this ^ and is keeping all his assets until the right deal comes along.
Not saying this is the perfect route to take but it's a decent one.
I'll tell you how i really feel around March 1/2018.
 

SCPens

Registered User
Feb 9, 2008
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0
I've been saying this all summer. This is the reason why I've been vocal because I knew you people would bust out hindsight is 20/20 bs. Any time a decision is questionable by a pens' gm people use this pathetic excuse.

This board:

How was he supposed to know there would only be garbage players available in late August????

And when July 1st rolled around there was only over-priced garbage available too. So what do you want? Is this all about Dom Moore? C'mon buddy, he could've had 10 teams lined up to sign him and he picked the Leafs. How do you know he'd even want to come back here? Apparently he didn't leave Pittsburgh on a good note. Waiting on Cullen's decision was the right move 10 times out of 10.
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
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Yukon
As long as people admit that the fighting is simply to appease the vendetta aspect and doesn't hold some illogical magical ability to keep a team safe or healthy...

Personally I don't really believe it will make a difference. The physical play maybe - ie you run Crosby hard and Reaves will run Wennberg/Wrensky the same way. But I'm not holding my breath. And the threat of a fight won't do ****. Dubinsky won't fight Reaves, and if Reaves jumps him, there's no way he can do enough damage to off set the penalties that will come with it to make it worth it.

Everyone loves a good fight or a hard hit, but the fight probably isn't going to get the guy who deserves it the most and hits can help or hurt a team if it becomes a distraction or takes guys out of position to land them....

If Reaves were signed as a ufa or if he had more than a year left on the deal i think most of the naysayers like myself would be indifferent to it... it just seems like a lot to have given up for something that isnt that big a deal in this nhl

Maybe. Lets see how it plays out. And more specifically how this season differs (if any) from last season or next season (when we likely let Reaves walk).
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
107,022
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Pittsburgh
This is the type of reasoning that held back the team under Shero. This is why Dupuis played so long with Crosby; why Craig Adams stuck around, why Kunitz was on this team the last 3 years, etc.

This is a business. The most important thing to do is build a winner. Twiddling your fingers all summer because a guy is nice is insane.

You say hey Matt, we would love to have you back but we are in a jam right now. Can you not take 2 months to decide?

You have zero understanding of the business or how much emotion is in a team that wins.
 
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