Player Discussion: Ross Colton

[The Macho King]

All it means is there is no contract yet. If there is actually a hearing then theres something to talk about.

 

[HoseEmDown]

A bunch of future HoFers left each, literally millions of dollars on the table to stick together. And still they lost vets like Gourde and Tjo. Not sure that kind of decision is going to bode well with the Lightning Mafia.

I'm pretty sure Stamkos is stealing millions of dollars a year rather than having left it on the table. Guy is a 7M player tops. Colton clearly sees that if they are willing to overpay a guy like that then they can pay him what he deserves.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I'm pretty sure Stamkos is stealing millions of dollars a year rather than having left it on the table. Guy is a 7M player tops. Colton clearly sees that if they are willing to overpay a guy like that then they can pay him what he deserves.

Who is "they" ?

 

[The Gongshow]

Oof.

He gone.

 

[Lightning1995]

I'm pretty sure Stamkos is stealing millions of dollars a year rather than having left it on the table. Guy is a 7M player tops. Colton clearly sees that if they are willing to overpay a guy like that then they can pay him what he deserves.

Come on, stay on topic. Stammer took less than market value when he signed.

 

[Rschmitz]

I really hate how Stamkos has turned into a punchline. I get it, but it's a shitty.

 

[DMB06]

He only filed for arbitration, still plenty of time before it goes to a hearing, we really have no idea what the contract talks look like. It can be something as simple as him wanting a one way contract instead of a two way contract, which seems fair, so I don't think we should jump to conclusions. Having said that, if it's AAV that is the issue a trade suddenly becomes more realistic.

I guess it just depends on perspective, unless we have recent examples of 12 point players deserving one way contracts. I think Colton is a good player who will only get better, but (as someone else pointed out) when future HOF players are taking less to keep the team together, I just think this sends the wrong message about the kind of guy he might be.

Although to be truly fair, it's probably not even him but his agent who wanted this. In the end I don't think it will be a big deal with any kind of lasting consequence.

 

[ultra63]

I get the sense that this is more JFBB has a number and it’s just gonna take another trade to get to it (rather than arbitration)

Colton may be the one traded

 

[NatoGhost]

Stamkos contract was way less than everyone expected and what he would have gotten elsewhere so that point is pretty ridiculous.

I don't see any player pointing to his contract and asking for more based off it. A superstar who regresses after multiple severe injuries is more of a sad story than anything else.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Colton had more even strength goals than Stamkos did this season in less games. Colton had more even strength goals and the same amount of even strength points as Stamkos in the playoffs. There's not currently a single player that's expected to be in the bottom 6 making more than 1M.

Joseph had a really good rookie year but a disappointing follow up and had to take a two year deal at league minimum. If he had his 13g 13a 26p season his last year of his ELC he's making much more yet they didn't give him any credit for that with the contract he got. Colton put up more points than Bellemare did last year and he got 1 x 2. Colton shouldn't take the deal that Barre-Boulet, Katchouk, Raddysh, Stephens or Joseph all took. Go for your money now, cause if you slip up a little they'll hold it against you. I don't think he's going to ask for the moon, I think the team will offer 850k and he'll probably ask 1.5M and they'll meet around 1.25.

 

[Lightning1995]

Colton had more even strength goals than Stamkos did this season in less games. Colton had more even strength goals and the same amount of even strength points as Stamkos in the playoffs. There's not currently a single player that's expected to be in the bottom 6 making more than 1M.

Joseph had a really good rookie year but a disappointing follow up and had to take a two year deal at league minimum. If he had his 13g 13a 26p season his last year of his ELC he's making much more yet they didn't give him any credit for that with the contract he got. Colton put up more points than Bellemare did last year and he got 1 x 2. Colton shouldn't take the deal that Barre-Boulet, Katchouk, Raddysh, Stephens or Joseph all took. Go for your money now, cause if you slip up a little they'll hold it against you. I don't think he's going to ask for the moon, I think the team will offer 850k and he'll probably ask 1.5M and they'll meet around 1.25.

1.1 million and change is all the Lightning have to offer

 

[nhljohnson]

Alex Killorn filed five years ago before signing his current, long-term contract weeks later.

I wouldn’t read anything into Colton filing other than standard operating procedure.

 

[BoltsFanPinellasPark]

I had a feeling that the Colton camp was gonna play hardball. And why not? Someone has to put some unnatural pressure on JBB and this Bolts FO. To me this is rather petty tho. The guy is gonna have a multi million dollar career. Why twist over a couple hundred thousand up front? Regardless, he has the leverage and a good agent. May as well make the future now, right? I am sure the Bolts and JBB will be fair about it, for the organization first, then for Ross Colton. Happy to have the guy on the team last year and show up as an emerging talent. Will be happy if they come to terms. We are gonna win with or without him either way, IMO. Colton is basically rolling the dice here and calling the Bolts bluff. Whatever leverage he has now might not be available to him if he doesn't live up to his Stanley Cup clinching goal on another team. To me, its a no confidence move by his agent. Anyways, if the Bolts lose him, it will be a small footnote in this offseason, and if they keep him, it would be just another miraculous GM move among many.

 

[HoseEmDown]

1.1 million and change is all the Lightning have to offer

From the calculations I did I think they can go up to 1.3M. I think if they offer him 1.1M he'd take it, they probably ate trying to get him under 1M which I get from an organization point of view since he has just one year in the NHL of experience. But when you pay a guy like Bellemare 1M who Colton performed better than I understand why Colton wouldn't want to be paid less.

 

[DMB06]

From the calculations I did I think they can go up to 1.3M. I think if they offer him 1.1M he'd take it, they probably ate trying to get him under 1M which I get from an organization point of view since he has just one year in the NHL of experience. But when you pay a guy like Bellemare 1M who Colton performed better than I understand why Colton wouldn't want to be paid less.

But Bellemare is more of a defensive forward, nobody expects him to put up big points, it's not his role. He's also a proven commodity because of his lengthy career, for Colton we still have no idea what he's going to be long term. Bellemare got his money based on his ability to do one thing consistently well and his experience. Colton has neither of those things in his favor.

 

[Crunchrulz]

Colton had more even strength goals than Stamkos did this season in less games. Colton had more even strength goals and the same amount of even strength points as Stamkos in the playoffs. There's not currently a single player that's expected to be in the bottom 6 making more than 1M.

Joseph had a really good rookie year but a disappointing follow up and had to take a two year deal at league minimum. If he had his 13g 13a 26p season his last year of his ELC he's making much more yet they didn't give him any credit for that with the contract he got. Colton put up more points than Bellemare did last year and he got 1 x 2. Colton shouldn't take the deal that Barre-Boulet, Katchouk, Raddysh, Stephens or Joseph all took. Go for your money now, cause if you slip up a little they'll hold it against you. I don't think he's going to ask for the moon, I think the team will offer 850k and he'll probably ask 1.5M and they'll meet around 1.25.

When Colton has put up the numbers Stamkos has year in and year out over his career in Tampa, then this is a valid point. He has 30 whole NHL regular season games on his resume and 12 points. Stamkos first season was 79 games and 46 points. While the goals are reasonably close (Stamkos had 23) if you project Colton's numbers over 79 games, Colton lacks badly in assists has he had 3 while Stamkos added 23 in his first season.
Other than the Cup winning goal, Colton has a lot of potential but not a lot else for his resume at this time. The Lightning have proved in the past that if they do not like the direction negotiations are going, they will stop the discussion and either wait for the sharing or make the trade.
Given the amount of money other younger players are signing for in Tampa, Colton might want to settle for around 800-850 per for two and look forward to his next contract.

 

[JTBF81]

Seems unlikely this will amount to anything, and losing Colton over a few hundred k, when Tampa's C depth already took a decent hit losing Gourde and Johnson, would be a mistake imo. He should get at least 1 million aav, maybe 1.1-1.2. As others have mentioned, term could be a sticking point as well, but if Brisebois is only offering just over what Raddysh, Katchouk, and ABB took, then I can see why he wouldn't be interested. I still think he ends up ~1.1x2, and that trading him is very unlikely.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

To me this is rather petty tho. The guy is gonna have a multi million dollar career. Why twist over a couple hundred thousand up front? Regardless, he has the leverage and a good agent. May as well make the future now, right? I am sure the Bolts and JBB will be fair about it, for the organization first, then for Ross Colton. Happy to have the guy on the team last year and show up as an emerging talent. Will be happy if they come to terms. We are gonna win with or without him either way, IMO. Colton is basically rolling the dice here and calling the Bolts bluff. Whatever leverage he has now might not be available to him if he doesn't live up to his Stanley Cup clinching goal on another team. To me, its a no confidence move by his agent. Anyways, if the Bolts lose him, it will be a small footnote in this offseason, and if they keep him, it would be just another miraculous GM move among many.

Meh, arbitration is literally a process where a neutral third party decides what a fair number is for a guy to get paid. It's fine.

Colton is a historically marginal prospect who now has 12 career points in the NHL, and the fact that BoltsFanPinellasPark can sit here and assure him millions upon millions of dollars of future earnings means very little. It's easy for us to look at all the money NHLers *in general* make and say ah, NBD, any player can afford to give some of that back to the team. But Colton has no assurance he won't get injured or simply exposed this year -- and never get another NHL contract. If he already had those millions in the bank, I might be more a bit inclined to agree with the idea of acceding to less than he's worth. But getting the extra few hundred thousand now could have a huge impact on his future finances, depending on how things go.

Also, this isn't a "no-confidence" move. I'm much more inclined to agree with the idea that a cheap 3-year deal like the one ABB took is the no-confidence move (but I'm not going to judge him negatively, either -- he's a bit more marginal than Colton and is now guaranteed at least $1.7m in future hockey earnings. That's really significant for his real life.) Contrast that with the Colton arbitration; if he doesn't sign before arbitration then he's going to get a one-year deal that maxes out his current pay (or he hopes it will, always possible that the arb awards less than Tampa offered) -- meaning he'll have zero guarantee of anything beyond it. That's the ultimate chips-in-the-middle, bet-on-yourself play.

And remember that all these collectively-bargained contractual arrangments in the various pro sports have involved the two parties at the bargaining table (owners and current players) slicing up the pie for themselves and screwing over the party not at the table (future players). Hockey's Entry-Level Contract and Restricted Free Agent rules make it so that earnings are heavily depressed for new/young players, leaving more money to go to the long-career veterans. The ability to arbitrate is the one bone those two parties threw to the young/new players, while screwing them over with the RFA restrictions. It's really hard to look at one of the people screwed by the bargaining and say he *shouldn't* use the one meager tool the CBA provides him.

(On the flip side, that purported gentleman's agreement among GMs not to offer-sheet RFAs? That's collusion, and morally repugnant. Now if a GM stays away from an RFA because he doesn't want to pay the draft-pick compensation? That's perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it, it's how the system is set up. But if, as is often mentioned, they each stay away because they all have a tacit agreement not to blow up the RFA market and because each one knows the rest will retaliate if anyone strays from the herd? That's some OPEC-style, cartel bullshit.)

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

obviously he doesnt like something of the offer...i doubt is money so to speak. basically has to be term....he has done nothing too deserve more then 1 milly range because of the sophmore jinx...bottom line maybe they shot the abb offer and hes like nah dont want a 3 year deal want a single prove it year full season then negotiate and get paid...we have thought like the 1.1 milly ....cant see him expecting more really he scored 12 goals??played like 30 games not sure how the postseason adds or could help say 50 games what 16 goals? 20 something points? has to be term and jbb hard nosed one offer only 3 years 800k etc... that is my thought....

 

[HoseEmDown]

Some comparables for Colton are Kiviranta 2 x 1.05M, Gambrell 1 x 1.1M, Borgstrom 2 x 1M, Frederic 2 x 1.05M, Texier 2 x 1.525M, Balcers 2 x 1.55M. So if BriseBois is trying to low ball him his agent has some fire power. So either BriseBois comes up or I can see this going to arbitration where BriseBois might have the edge since Colton doesn't have a lot of NHL games.

 

[DFC]

Just a guess, but Id bet Colton wants a one year, prove it deal, because he knows he's in a good spot to produce. The team probably doesn't want a difficult contract coming up as the new Point deal kicks in. Probably trying to get two or three years at the same number.

 

[Crunchrulz]

Some comparables for Colton are Kiviranta 2 x 1.05M, Gambrell 1 x 1.1M, Borgstrom 2 x 1M, Frederic 2 x 1.05M, Texier 2 x 1.525M, Balcers 2 x 1.55M. So if BriseBois is trying to low ball him his agent has some fire power. So either BriseBois comes up or I can see this going to arbitration where BriseBois might have the edge since Colton doesn't have a lot of NHL games.

I am sorry but this logic does not make sense. Kiviranta is the least NHL experienced of the players you mentioned and he has 37 games to Colton's 12. They have the same number of points, but the style of play of the Lightning as opposed to that of the Stars has to be taken into consideration.
I understand that Colton feels the need to use the leverage of scoring the Stanley Cup winning goal and the potential to blossom into a good player into getting a 7 figure contract, but this is not the time for that.
I hope this is not a case of a greedy agent whispering sweet nothings into a young player's ear, as those do not turn out well far more often than not.

 

[Rschmitz]

This may be one of the longest summers in recent memory, all there is to argue about for the next 2 months is if a bottom six player is going to get a few extra bucks or not.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I am sorry but this logic does not make sense. Kiviranta is the least NHL experienced of the players you mentioned and he has 37 games to Colton's 12. They have the same number of points, but the style of play of the Lightning as opposed to that of the Stars has to be taken into consideration.
I understand that Colton feels the need to use the leverage of scoring the Stanley Cup winning goal and the potential to blossom into a good player into getting a 7 figure contract, but this is not the time for that.
I hope this is not a case of a greedy agent whispering sweet nothings into a young player's ear, as those do not turn out well far more often than not.

Regular season Kiviranta has 7 more games played, if you count playoff games as well then Colton has more. Tampa scored only 10 more goals 5v5 goals than Dallas, they aren’t that much more of an offensive team than them. Gambrell was drafted the same year as Colton, he's got more games but hasn't really shown anything more in those games to warrant more money. Borgstrom didn't even play in the NHL this year and played 4 games in 19-20, why does he get 1M for 2 years? Frederic has played more games, great he's done nothing in those games. Texier production this year dropped for the year prior and got a nice deal. I get you want the player to show more over a longer period before you commit to them but you aren't paying the kid huge more and long term. It's probably just 250k differences they are off on.

 

[These Are The Days]

Just a guess, but Id bet Colton wants a one year, prove it deal, because he knows he's in a good spot to produce. The team probably doesn't want a difficult contract coming up as the new Point deal kicks in. Probably trying to get two or three years at the same number.

I think this is exactly right. Colton has waited just as long as Katchouk and Raddysh for an NHL shot but went the college route willingly and chose that as his development path versus "There's no room at the inn" for the other two. By this point they probably want term so they can buy a house and settle. You can do that clearing almost $450k a year after taxes. You can still have the house on Davis Island and the Jet Skis with the rest of the boys.

For Colton it's a totally different ballgame because he's also gotten here before they did and has more room to bet on himself.