Please Kyle, just a few tweaks

[jrgtml67]

If it means scrapping so much of our depth like Gardiner, Johnsson, Kapanen, Hainsey, Lindholm, Gauthier, perhaps we are better off making sure a couple of the bigger salaries are gone so the structure of the team doesn't get eroded like a game of Jenga.

I didn't say they are all gone. I said one of Johnsson or Kap which makes room for Bracco and Trevor Moore for me is better than Lindholm. Goat will be gone for sure and Hainsey as well. The only way Kap and Johsson stay is if we trade Marleau in the offseason.

We have a ton of wing depth apparently you don't watch the Marlies

 

[Stephen]

I didn't say they are all gone. I said one of Johnsson or Kap which makes room for Bracco and Trevor Moore for me is better than Lindholm. Goat will be gone for sure and Hainsey as well. The only way Kap and Johsson stay is if we trade Marleau in the offseason.

We have a ton of wing depth apparently you don't watch the Marlies

Coincidentally I watched the Marlies game today and they were smoked 5-1 by Rochester. Not a ton of exciting winger prospects down there to be honest, and the team isn't so great this year. So if you think we have a ton more Kapanen's and Johnsson's to promote in the Grundstrom, Engvall, Marchment, group, it's not really the case.

 

[jrgtml67]

Coincidentally I watched the Marlies game today and they were smoked 5-1 by Rochester. Not a ton of exciting winger prospects down there to be honest, and the team isn't so great this year. So if you think we have a ton more Kapanen's and Johnsson's to promote in the Grundstrom, Engvall, Marchment, group, it's not really the case.

You watched a bad game is all. You don't recall the camps Engvall, Bracco had? Marchment was injured. We want more toughness? Marchment is a nasty character and Grundy is nails. Bracco is a like a poor man's Marner..mark my word if we trade Johnsson or Kapenen one of those guys sticks next yr and hard to fathom why Moore hasn't stayed up..to me was better than lindholm in his 2 or 3 game stint that 4th line actually scored and goat had 2 of all ppl

 

[hockeyes]

Shanahan was on the right path before he fell for smooth talking con men

 

[Stephen]

You watched a bad game is all. You don't recall the camps Engvall, Bracco had? Marchment was injured. We want more toughness? Marchment is a nasty character and Grundy is nails. Bracco is a like a poor man's Marner..mark my word if we trade Johnsson or Kapenen one of those guys sticks next yr and hard to fathom why Moore hasn't stayed up..to me was better than lindholm in his 2 or 3 game stint that 4th line actually scored and goat had 2 of all ppl

For me, there's a general development cycle I'd like to see with Leaf picks and prospects who aren't franchise players:

1) Draft 2) Develop 3) ELC cheap contract, 4) cost controlled second contract, and beyond.

I don't see a point in moving those upwardly mobile, fairly affordable contracts when there's older players and more fat to cut higher up the salary chain.

Grundstrom, Bracco, Marchment, Engvall, etc. are fine, but I don't want to be in the situation where you need to patch multiple organizational holes so quickly. Makes more sense to get rid of one big fish than sacrifice the organizational depth at multiple positions.

 

[Apotheosis]

One question.

If we get bounced again in round 1 by Boston or any team that leans heavily on a top line ---> should the Leafs sports science department shoulder any accountability at all?

No, but Babcock should be considered for a firing.

 

[gamer1035]

If I'm judging dubas based on what he's done so far he's been a terrible gm.

The Kessel deal was trash. Nylander signing; we got bent over after a long holdout. Gave away a good backup for Sparks who's potential is a low end back up.

He got Tavares, but Tavares was coming here no matter who the gm was.

I hope he doesn't screw up the amazing situation he inherited

 

[v4karuna]

Just get one serviceable RD like a younger Hainsey who can grind it out and play a consistent game. Pair him with Dermott.

Then shuffle the forward lines to have 3 really good lines (we arguably have only one good line now, Matthews and Kadri line is lacking in spirit). Bring back the original Matthews line and seperate Marner and Tavares who can easily drive their own lines.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Tavares-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Moore-Goat-Brown
(Ennis-Lindholm for reserves)

Rielly-Hainsey
Dermott-X
Gardiner-Zaitsev
(Rosen/Oz reserves)

I really believe Marner will turn around the 'third line' into the first line that will cause matchup nightmares and will rejuvenate Kadri and Marleau who look lifeless out there.

 

[jrgtml67]

If I'm judging dubas based on what he's done so far he's been a terrible gm.

The Kessel deal was trash. Nylander signing; we got bent over after a long holdout. Gave away a good backup for Sparks who's potential is a low end back up.

He got Tavares, but Tavares was coming here no matter who the gm was.

I hope he doesn't screw up the amazing situation he inherited

Loud made the Kessel deal and you're nuts we got Kapenen who is showing hes a top 6 forward maybe even top 2.

He made a choice (goalies) way too early to say if he screwed up..but when you have a young Calder cup, Ahl goalie of the yr vs an aging vet at some point you have to go get.. and we weren't going to waste a roster spot with Pickard so he was a casualty of waivers. But now we have Hutchison, and because he is 2way, when Andy and Sparky get back he goes down..however I'm not sure Babcock is sold on Sparks or has confidence in him..basically like the rest of us. He has had the good fortune of our offense being on fire most nights hes in for some reason. Either way Babcock did say we may have to acquire another goalie..wonder if Hutchinson has silenced that thought or if its Sparks headed out..we cant send him down he will be claimed. Many don't realize goalies usually take to mid 20s to develop as 24 to 26, so he has time.

Now Dubas inherited a great team, this offseason will be the biggest in recent leaf history..some stupid # of RFAs (5 to 7) we wont and cant keep them all. Do we trade a way some youth like Timmy Lily, Johnsson or Kapenen (due to cap constraints with our big guns), or is Kadri the cap casualty? Do we trade a team favorite Marleau to save cap..hmmm maybe helluva bargaining chip. If I'm dubas I tell Marner and Matthew's if you guys take contract A we can keep father Marleau if you take contract b we cant . Leads into the historic part those 2 players maybe the highest paid center and winger in the league when all is done. Matthew's needs to get off snide and start playing like normal..because last couple games hes looked uninspired and frustrated. Marner however well he is our backbone. When hes not on or has an off night like tonight we lose (ya he scored, but didn't have the normal jump not edges like he most oft does 98% of the time) and in the same tune JT had a bad night, schooled in the dot, lost a lot of battles, mis fired on key shots and passes. It's one game but God I hate Boston lol

 

[Kiwi]

Shanahan was on the right path before he fell for smooth talking con men

You mean the right path that handed out 3 years to Marleau and a 7 year contract to Zaitsev?

I think you and I may disagree on what the "right path" is

 

[HellasLEAF]

Op, well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

Especially your final thought in point 2.

 

[Pookie]

You mean the right path that handed out 3 years to Marleau and a 7 year contract to Zaitsev?

I think you and I may disagree on what the "right path" is

Let’s not forget extending Randy Carlyle, signing Robidas, trading picks for role players.... in the year that would end with drafting McDavid.

 

[Kiwi]

Let’s not forget extending Randy Carlyle, signing Robidas, trading picks for role players.... in the year that would end with drafting McDavid.

It's a litany of **** decisions

I love it when fans pine for the "good lod days", I've supported the team for 35 years, there weren't that many unfortunately

 

[MyBudJT]

You think Alex Edler coming back the other way is nothing? He'd be the best 2-way D-man on Toronto's roster and the only guy that doesn't get absolutely bullied behind his own net by anyone with a pulse.

I think 2 months of Edler is nothing relative to 5 more years of Zaitsev, yes.

 

[The CyNick]

Loud made the Kessel deal and you're nuts we got Kapenen who is showing hes a top 6 forward maybe even top 2.

He made a choice (goalies) way too early to say if he screwed up..but when you have a young Calder cup, Ahl goalie of the yr vs an aging vet at some point you have to go get.. and we weren't going to waste a roster spot with Pickard so he was a casualty of waivers. But now we have Hutchison, and because he is 2way, when Andy and Sparky get back he goes down..however I'm not sure Babcock is sold on Sparks or has confidence in him..basically like the rest of us. He has had the good fortune of our offense being on fire most nights hes in for some reason. Either way Babcock did say we may have to acquire another goalie..wonder if Hutchinson has silenced that thought or if its Sparks headed out..we cant send him down he will be claimed. Many don't realize goalies usually take to mid 20s to develop as 24 to 26, so he has time.

Now Dubas inherited a great team, this offseason will be the biggest in recent leaf history..some stupid # of RFAs (5 to 7) we wont and cant keep them all. Do we trade a way some youth like Timmy Lily, Johnsson or Kapenen (due to cap constraints with our big guns), or is Kadri the cap casualty? Do we trade a team favorite Marleau to save cap..hmmm maybe helluva bargaining chip. If I'm dubas I tell Marner and Matthew's if you guys take contract A we can keep father Marleau if you take contract b we cant . Leads into the historic part those 2 players maybe the highest paid center and winger in the league when all is done. Matthew's needs to get off snide and start playing like normal..because last couple games hes looked uninspired and frustrated. Marner however well he is our backbone. When hes not on or has an off night like tonight we lose (ya he scored, but didn't have the normal jump not edges like he most oft does 98% of the time) and in the same tune JT had a bad night, schooled in the dot, lost a lot of battles, mis fired on key shots and passes. It's one game but God I hate Boston lol

Lou did not make the Kessel deal. In fact the Kessel deal was what scared the higher ups internally and forced Shanny's hand to bring in Lou to teach our young GM. Lou then came in and traded for our stud goalie, signed key pieces to team friendly deals and let Hunter do his thing in terms of drafting.

It's funny that the concept this thread is asking for our young GM to make tweaks. But he has been tweaking. He tweaked the goalie position which has been a disaster. He tweaked the strategy for signing RFAs and that was a disaster.

I'm curious what trade or signing people think our young GM has done that has benefitted the team. Don't say JT because if you do I will know you are grasping at straws.

 

[justafan22]

Lou did not make the Kessel deal. In fact the Kessel deal was what scared the higher ups internally and forced Shanny's hand to bring in Lou to teach our young GM. Lou then came in and traded for our stud goalie, signed key pieces to team friendly deals and let Hunter do his thing in terms of drafting.

It's funny that the concept this thread is asking for our young GM to make tweaks. But he has been tweaking. He tweaked the goalie position which has been a disaster. He tweaked the strategy for signing RFAs and that was a disaster.

I'm curious what trade or signing people think our young GM has done that has benefitted the team. Don't say JT because if you do I will know you are grasping at straws.

Good ol' Lou left 2 gifts in a Marleau contract next year at 6 million for his age 40 season, and 5 more years of Zaitsev, with a NTC that kicks in this July.

 

[hotpaws]

Good ol' Lou left 2 gifts in a Marleau contract next year at 6 million for his age 40 season, and 5 more years of Zaitsev, with a NTC that kicks in this July.

yup good ol' Lou really f***ed us

-signed Rielly to a great deal
-signed Kads to a great deal
-traded peanuts for a quality num 1 G and signed him to a cap friendly deal
-dumped Phaneuf with no retention

wasn't perfect and didn't have a lovely t-shirt made up like the Dube's "process vs everyone" but i still think he did a very good job while he was here

 

[justafan22]

yup good ol' Lou really ****ed

-signed Rielly to a great deal
-signed Kads to a great deal
-traded peanuts for a quality num 1 G and signed him to a cap friendly deal
-dumped Phaneuf

wasn't perfect and didn't have a lovely t-shirt made up like the Dube's "process vs everyone" but i still think he did a very good job while he was here

Signing RFAs that usually have little leverage while good for the team, isn't that hard to do, especially on Kadri's part when his counting numbers at the time were not flashy.

Andersen was not traded for peanuts, Sam Steel, and Comtois are decent picks.

Phaneuf trade was great, but not the steal everyone thought it was. Leafs still had to deal with 1 1/2 years of dead money.

 

[hotpaws]

Signing RFAs that usually have little leverage while good for the team, isn't that hard to do, especially on Kadri's part when his counting numbers at the time were not flashy.

Andersen was not traded for peanuts, Sam Steel, and Comtois are decent picks.

Phaneuf trade was great, but not the steal everyone thought it was. Leafs still had to deal with 1 1/2 years of dead money.

it seems signing RFA's is very hard to do for our resident boy genuis

Anderson was traded for the last pick in the 1st rd and a future 2nd , whether the prospects taken with those picks busted or went on to the HOF has nothing to do with what there value was at the time we dealt them .

that's right Kads/Rielly/Andy weren't worth there deals at the time but LL signed them believing they'd out performed the contracts they have signed which they have

i think LL's problem is he should have pimped himself more in the media , this fan base seems to love that , Burke/Dubas as examples

 

[smitty10]

Zaitsev + 2019 first round pick + 2019 second round pick + Bracco to LA for Muzzin + Martinez.

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Kapanen
Lindholm-Gauthier-Brown
Moore

Rielly-Muzzin
Gardiner-Martinez
Dermott-Hainsey
Ozhiganov

Andersen
Sparks
Hutchinson

In the off season, move Brown out for a pick, let Gardiner walk and hope Marleau quits so you can move his contract to Arizona or similar.

 

[LeafFever]

Lou did not make the Kessel deal. In fact the Kessel deal was what scared the higher ups internally and forced Shanny's hand to bring in Lou to teach our young GM. Lou then came in and traded for our stud goalie, signed key pieces to team friendly deals and let Hunter do his thing in terms of drafting.

It's funny that the concept this thread is asking for our young GM to make tweaks. But he has been tweaking. He tweaked the goalie position which has been a disaster. He tweaked the strategy for signing RFAs and that was a disaster.

I'm curious what trade or signing people think our young GM has done that has benefitted the team. Don't say JT because if you do I will know you are grasping at straws.

Wait, you don't want someone to use the biggest UFA signing of any GM for 12 years as an example of a signing? Sorry, that's ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as calling Morgan Reilly a 3rd-pairing D.

 

[Menzinger]

Wait, you don't want someone to use the biggest UFA signing of any GM for 12 years as an example of a signing? Sorry, that's ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as calling Morgan Reilly a 3rd-pairing D.

That particular poster likes to pretend the GM of the team had next to zero impact on the JT signing. Hard to understand, I know.

 

[LeafFever]

That particular poster likes to pretend the GM of the team had next to zero impact on the JT signing. Hard to understand, I know.

It's also funny that the narrative now is JT was always coming to the Leafs, yet in June no one thought that at all. Not on this board, or any, or any of the media.
I actually asked in a JT thread in late June why no one thought there was any chance of him coming here.

 

[dimi78]

Coincidentally I watched the Marlies game today and they were smoked 5-1 by Rochester. Not a ton of exciting winger prospects down there to be honest, and the team isn't so great this year. So if you think we have a ton more Kapanen's and Johnsson's to promote in the Grundstrom, Engvall, Marchment, group, it's not really the case.

It's funny you mention these guys because it's being proven that it's the collective attributes these players have is what can improve the Leafs with some meat & potato players that could make plays. As of now Hyman is really the only one and the team can vastly improve it's structured game by having 2 more like him. It's not all about exciting offensive point producers Rather they're ready or not is another question.

 

[The CyNick]

Wait, you don't want someone to use the biggest UFA signing of any GM for 12 years as an example of a signing? Sorry, that's ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as calling Morgan Reilly a 3rd-pairing D.

It's rediculous because JT was going to sign here no matter who the GM was. Is it your claim that if Lou was still the GM JT would have rejected our offer? I hope you say you think that so you can reveal you ignorance on the subject.