Please Kyle, just a few tweaks

[FraumBallard]

Based on what? He was seriously considering the Islanders the night before July 1st. It took him a long time to even get back to Dubas. It was no slam dunk.

Can you point to comments you made prior to July 1st about it being a lock JT was coming here? I was one of the very few who suggested it was even possible. So why has the narrative changed? So you don't have to give Dubas credit?

Of course Dubas gets credit. His presentation got raves from everyone.

Lou failed to keep the franchise star and then traded for Matt Martin and overpaid Leo.

Fire Dubas

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Lou failed to keep the franchise star and then traded for Matt Martin and overpaid Leo.

... and the Islanders have 56 points and we have 58.

 

[Pookie]

... and the Islanders have 56 points and we have 58.

The guy we ran out of town has 3 less points at even strength than the guy he was supposedly bringing down.

And an on ice goal differential of 19 (+11 vs -7)

 

[nsleaf]

The Toronto media were all over the map on what went on with Tavares. They had ZERO knowledge of what occurred. From what I read on here on hf boards Tavares was always deciding between the Island and coming here. It was only one of 2 choices. and he chose here.

Stammer was never a Toronto kid. He was always in the OMHA playing for Titanic in Markham. When he was given option to play in GTHL for Marlies he declined. Also his fiance was never going to let him come to Toronto. I sat by her at a game last year and she thought Toronto was where the Eskimos live. She could not wait to get on plane and bolt town. So that story was just a pipe dream created by someone sports writer. Anyone who looked into it deeply would have figured out the truth.

Commenting on players personal lives, friends, girlfriends, wives, family seems kind of creepy.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Commenting on players personal lives, friends, girlfriends, wives, family seems kind of creepy.

You are probably right. I was a rink rat as a kid. after playing i pushed my kids into hockey like my dad did with me. and one of my kids is in Leafs org trying to make it now so I run into these people a lot. it is not creepy though just a lot of knowledge of built up over the years in the rinks.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Dubas has work to be done but let's be fair, Lou did the easy part. We were bad and all he did was draft these guys and that was all scouting department. Marner was a Hunter pick and Matthews was a no brainer.

Dubas has to sign these guys to contracts, AND make the final adjustments to make the team a cup winner all while balancing the cap. Much harder to do then just being bad for a year, getting a top talent, and then moving 2nd's for average 4th liners each deadline.

Probably also doesn't help Dubas is getting a lot of people trying to pull a fast one on him because he is young and new.

With that said, my opinion will sour on him if he has to overpay Matthews and Marner to get them signed, especially if they get more money and less term than comparable like Nylander did. It would have all stemmed from the we can and we will and the JT promise.

Tick tock anyway.

 

[The CyNick]

Dubas has work to be done but let's be fair, Lou did the easy part. We were bad and all he did was draft these guys and that was all scouting department. Marner was a Hunter pick and Matthews was a no brainer.

Dubas has to sign these guys to contracts, AND make the final adjustments to make the team a cup winner all while balancing the cap. Much harder to do then just being bad for a year, getting a top talent, and then moving 2nd's for average 4th liners each deadline.

Probably also doesn't help Dubas is getting a lot of people trying to pull a fast one on him because he is young and new.

With that said, my opinion will sour on him if he has to overpay Matthews and Marner to get them signed, especially if they get more money and less term than comparable like Nylander did. It would have all stemmed from the we can and we will and the JT promise.

Tick tock anyway.

Lou pulled an elite starting goalie out of thin air.

Our young GM gave away our top of the league backup and a mid round pick and got back zero NHL quality backups.

Lou signed key pieces in Morgan and Naz to long term team friendly deals.

Our young GM stalled on making a deal and then completely caved and overpaid for the player.

That's the difference.

 

[The Iceman]

Lou pulled an elite starting goalie out of thin air.

Our young GM gave away our top of the league backup and a mid round pick and got back zero NHL quality backups.

Lou signed key pieces in Morgan and Naz to long term team friendly deals.

Our young GM stalled on making a deal and then completely caved and overpaid for the player.

That's the difference.

Greiss had more starts heading into December than Lehner and was the starter for NYI out of camp. Lehner was signed as a backup for backup $$$ and has outperformed his salary. Good value signing.
BUT Lou also signed a 31 year old 4th line guy to a 4 year x $3 million contract. Check back in 2 years and tell me how good that one looks.

7 rounds, 1/2 way is mid
3.5 is half of 7.
5th round draft pick is not a mid round pick.

Why do you say Hutchinson is not a quality backup? .914 save % as a Leaf under tough circumstances is damn solid.
Where would the Leafs have been if they didn't trade that 5th round pick for Hutchinson?
Starting Kaskisuo and his .867 AHL save% is what would have happened. Thank goodness for the trade.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Lou pulled an elite starting goalie out of thin air.

Our young GM gave away our top of the league backup and a mid round pick and got back zero NHL quality backups.

Lou signed key pieces in Morgan and Naz to long term team friendly deals.

Our young GM stalled on making a deal and then completely caved and overpaid for the player.

That's the difference.

all of what you say is true no one can deny those statements. But i think you should look at the standings and let the results speak for themselves. and playoffs after that. those are the measures i use for a GM/coach. as a GM are we better off as a team in standings this year or last year. and then can this team get past a 1st round in the playoffs.

 

[The CyNick]

all of what you say is true no one can deny those statements. But i think you should look at the standings and let the results speak for themselves. and playoffs after that. those are the measures i use for a GM/coach. as a GM are we better off as a team in standings this year or last year. and then can this team get past a 1st round in the playoffs.

To me its no different than the Calder Cup thing. Yes, it will go down in history that he won, but most likely any GM would have won with the team he was handed.

He is in the same boat with the Leafs. He's been handed an amazing situation. I don't personally credit him for signing JT. I get some people don't agree, and that's great. The team was going to naturally get better. What I'm focused on are the decisions he had a major hand in. So far that's the nylander deal (handled terribly) and the backup goalie (stupid decision). So to me he's 0 for 2 on key decisions.

If he had a track record of building winners in the past, I would say I'm not concerned. Given he doesnt, I'm extremely concerned.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

To me its no different than the Calder Cup thing. Yes, it will go down in history that he won, but most likely any GM would have won with the team he was handed.

He is in the same boat with the Leafs. He's been handed an amazing situation. I don't personally credit him for signing JT. I get some people don't agree, and that's great. The team was going to naturally get better. What I'm focused on are the decisions he had a major hand in. So far that's the nylander deal (handled terribly) and the backup goalie (stupid decision). So to me he's 0 for 2 on key decisions.

If he had a track record of building winners in the past, I would say I'm not concerned. Given he doesnt, I'm extremely concerned.

I don't think he had anything to do with JT signing here either except he made the presentation. JT had made up his mind he was either coming home and living with his wife here and both their families or staying on the Island. It was a 50/50 thing. But again that has nothing to do with it when he took over the Marlies he hired Keefe and brought in a sports science group to develop those guys. He also took them to a Calder Cup in 3 years and progressed each year in playoffs by continually improving the team. And the Willy thing and the backup goalie thing are minor pieces to team. So even if you don't like those moves they don't move the needle much. Again the test will be does team finish better this year and can we get past the 1st round. Those are the benchmarks of a successful year for a GM.

 

[hockeywiz542]

What is Dubas’ intentions as the trade deadline approaches? - Video - TSN

Leafs Lunch host Andi Petrillo and co-hosts Dave Feschuk and Mike Johnson are joined by TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie and they discuss the Toronto Maple Leafs' approach as the trade deadline approaches.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Lou pulled an elite starting goalie out of thin air.

Our young GM gave away our top of the league backup and a mid round pick and got back zero NHL quality backups.

Lou signed key pieces in Morgan and Naz to long term team friendly deals.

Our young GM stalled on making a deal and then completely caved and overpaid for the player.

That's the difference.

.914 on the team that allows the least shots in the league?

You left out things like Zaitsev x 7 and Marleau x 3?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Kyle Dubas has a fine line to walk with Leafs in the coming...

Quibbles on the quality or depth of the pool is one thing. Do the Leafs have enough coming that they can part with the best of that bunch? Can an organization that’s already thin on right defence really afford to deal Liljegren, who might be able to fill a spot for cheap next season? Same goes for Rosen, who could conceivably slide onto the third pair if Gardiner doesn’t return and Travis Dermott jumps higher in the lineup.

Moore and Grundstrom, too, could be useful sources of depth next season when things are tight around the cap.

The Leafs are in win-now mode today though, needing to maximize what the group can possibly accomplish this year. It would be hard not to push whatever chips necessary into the middle if the upgrade is real and boosts the chances of a championships during a prime year of John Tavares, Nazem Kadri, and Frederik Andersen, Gardiner’s (likely) last year in Toronto, and Marner, Matthews, Dermott and Kapanen on entry-level deals.

There’s also that window though and the need to keep it to open as long as possible and a big part of that is keeping enough stocked internally for when the roster turns over — for when Ron Hainsey potentially moves on (2019?), and when Patrick Marleau (2020) and perhaps Connor Brown (2020) and/or Zach Hyman (2021) join him after that.

“You’re right,” Dubas said when asked about maximizing possibilities during a year when Matthews and Marner are still on entry-level contracts, “we may not have the same cap space at the deadline in the future, but I think that’s where we’ll be expecting our development model and our program here and some internal development of our (own) guys.”

This is what being a GM is all about, but it’s a particularly challenging balance to strike for someone in Dubas’ position. He’s not only trying to bring the Leafs their first championship in more than 50 years, but keep them positioned to challenge for more long after that.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

very concerned kyle basically said he likes our team as it is in the presser yesterday...pretty disappointed in that remark for sure- he still doesnt get it- we are too soft and we need a good dman.

 

[ITM]

very concerned kyle basically said he likes our team as it is in the presser yesterday...pretty disappointed in that remark for sure- he still doesnt get it- we are too soft and we need a good dman.

I listened to the whole conference and all Dubas conveyed was confidence in the organization's assets and faith in the process they have in place.

If you listen to it again (From the TML YT Channel), take note at about the 3:32 mark. Speaking about his faith in the club, Dubas said,

"They've earned the right for us to explore ways we can continue to make the team better. So we're trying to do that and if they're things that are fair we feel that fit for us in the short and long term, then we'll continue to explore all that."

That doesn't sound like a GM who doesn't get it.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Point: 18:29
Kucherov: 19:06
Kuznetsov: 18:34
Bergeron: 18:51
Marchand: 19:50


Matthews: 18:08
Marner: 19:37
Tavares: 19:02

Good teams don't play their forwards over 20 minutes.

Bahaha! OP. #murderedbyfacts #murderedbyGoogle

 

[indigobuffalo]

I listened to the whole conference and all Dubas conveyed was confidence in the organization's assets and faith in the process they have in place.

If you listen to it again (From the TML YT Channel), take note at about the 3:32 mark. Speaking about his faith in the club, Dubas said,

"They've earned the right for us to explore ways we can continue to make the team better. So we're trying to do that and if they're things that are fair we feel that fit for us in the short and long term, then we'll continue to explore all that."

That doesn't sound like a GM who doesn't get it.

Although to be fair to the super genius you quoted, Dubas has previously said that “toughness” is not something they’re looking for because, you know, facts and evidence don’t support it being a useful component of a team.

So it’s still a “concern” to all the mental elite in the room.

 

[ITM]

Although to be fair to the super genius you quoted, Dubas has previously said that “toughness” is not something they’re looking for because, you know, facts and evidence don’t support it being a useful component of a team.

So it’s still a “concern” to all the mental elite in the room.

There's a room with the mental elite in it? Where? And what's wrong with quoting super geniuses?

And, to be fair, the type of toughness that Dubas isn't looking for is the one that excludes skill. The below is an interesting read on Dubas on toughness: Toronto Maple Leafs Notebook: What do Kyle Dubas' past teams tell us about his view on "toughness"?

 

[BudsOne]

The Leafs are in a good position and are still banking points for the stretch run before the playoffs. They're doing it without their main goalie, or even their 'backup,' and certain players are in slumps. It's not time to panic, even if our minds always go there because we want to win so badly.

It's too early to risk tiring players out by going to just three lines most of the time, especially when the team is winning a lot more games than it's losing, generally speaking.

I do agree that tweaks are needed. The fourth line has not impressed me much. Lindholm worries me going into the playoffs, Gauthier isn't reliable enough but has had a decent year in limited play, and we need someone who can stick up for the young guys when needed. Those guys are hard to find, though. We also don't want to go back to the truculence era.

Same with defense. Improvements are needed. It's not as easy as going out and picking someone off of a tree though. Hopefully it will happen before the postseason starts, but it may not.

BANKING points what are you talking about Good position 2 points out 8th and points back from being in 9th. their 3-7 in their last 10 I think where are they banking points Not to mention other than Tampa havent beat a playoff team since almost before xmas. Typical leafs mentality losers again

 

[Trapper]

I listened to the whole conference and all Dubas conveyed was confidence in the organization's assets and faith in the process they have in place.

If you listen to it again (From the TML YT Channel), take note at about the 3:32 mark. Speaking about his faith in the club, Dubas said,

"They've earned the right for us to explore ways we can continue to make the team better. So we're trying to do that and if they're things that are fair we feel that fit for us in the short and long term, then we'll continue to explore all that."

That doesn't sound like a GM who doesn't get it.

That remains to be seen.
We don't know what type of player Dubas is going after.

Many of us here question this teams ability to control the opposition cycle and aggressively engage in a forecheck/cycle of our own.

Every GM says we are looking for ways to improve. But if you bring in another player that joins what is weak and not what needs to be stronger we will see if you actually improved.

 

[ITM]

That remains to be seen.
We don't know what type of player Dubas is going after.

Many of us here question this teams ability to control the opposition cycle and aggressively engage in a forecheck/cycle of our own.

Every GM says we are looking for ways to improve. But if you bring in another player that joins what is weak and not what needs to be stronger we will see if you actually improved.

I share the concern and recognize that our club needs depth and in that depth, grit. But I don't mistake the intentions of this GM and the time and the cost and the right opportunity in which it takes to acquire other necessary pieces as him being negligent or unaware of those needs that appears many here do.

It's one thing to say (and I'm not saying you're saying this), "Dubas doesn't want toughness on the club." It's another thing to say, "Dubas isn't sacrificing skill to get toughness." I think it's a worthwhile distinction to pay attention to.

Time, cost and opportunity, and I should add practicality from an assets standpoint are all important factors affecting the club's ability and desire to acquire right pieces for fair prices. Do we move out skill and deplete top six depth to acquire bottom six toughness? I don't see the logic in that. Do we wait and continue to determine our prospect capital to see what top six pieces can be moved for toughness with skill? I would think so. And from what the GM has expressed, that seems to be the direction he's looking towards.

 

[The CyNick]

Greiss had more starts heading into December than Lehner and was the starter for NYI out of camp. Lehner was signed as a backup for backup $$$ and has outperformed his salary. Good value signing.
BUT Lou also signed a 31 year old 4th line guy to a 4 year x $3 million contract. Check back in 2 years and tell me how good that one looks.

7 rounds, 1/2 way is mid
3.5 is half of 7.
5th round draft pick is not a mid round pick.

Why do you say Hutchinson is not a quality backup? .914 save % as a Leaf under tough circumstances is damn solid.
Where would the Leafs have been if they didn't trade that 5th round pick for Hutchinson?
Starting Kaskisuo and his .867 AHL save% is what would have happened. Thank goodness for the trade.

Easy, could have just kept McBackup who was a proven commodity. You likely lose Sparks, but most people in hockey don't think he's long for the NHL. I could see the move if we were a bottom feeder team (keep the young guy and hope), but we a team who should be in win mode, and he misjudged the quality of the player .

 

[indigobuffalo]

There's a room with the mental elite in it? Where? And what's wrong with quoting super geniuses?

And, to be fair, the type of toughness that Dubas isn't looking for is the one that excludes skill. The below is an interesting read on Dubas on toughness: Toronto Maple Leafs Notebook: What do Kyle Dubas' past teams tell us about his view on "toughness"?

Yeah I agree. That’s exactly what Dubas has said. So toughness to him means guys like Marner or Kapanen or Rielly are being physical and pushing the limits of their game when it matters.

Not trading guys like Kapanen for Gudas.

 

[baton elevated]

I hope Dubas does absolutely nothing of significance at the TD. Maybe a small add like Macquaid. This team is not a player or even two away from a serious cup contender and we should keep growing and finding our identity.

We are young and those bodies need to mature and become men. keep adding through the draft and when the appropriate time comes along pull the trigger on the final piece.

Stay the course and just draft. I wasn't a fan of throwing away our seconds on Boyle and Plek.