Player Discussion: Martin Jones

[LeeIFBB]

At this point the odds are better that he catches on fire. Literally.

 

[tiburon12]

Jones isn't going to catch fire if the team keeps hanging him out to dry. Period

 

[Internazionale]

We have the second coming of Roman Turek. Big bucks with little to show.

 

[FunkyPhin]

He's at a .862 Sv% this game, it'd be whatever if this was a one-off game, but when the guy has consistently been under .900 jesus that is dreadful

 

[treefiddy]

He's at a .862 Sv% this game, it'd be whatever if this was a one-off game, but when the guy has consistently been under .900 jesus that is dreadful

Yep. The defense has been garbage.

There's not a single goalie in the league that would look good in front of it.

 

[Bizz]

Goalies are gonna have down seasons, it happens and is inevitable, but... Jones picked a horribly annoying time to do it, given the fact that this is probably a top-3 best squad the Sharks have ever iced on paper. At this point it almost feels like the Sharks' destiny to have incredible teams flame out early in the playoffs behind mediocre goaltending.

Here's hoping the regular season is irrelevant and Jones catches fire when the chips are down.

Goalies who have a terrible regular season normally don't turn a corner when the playoffs start. Hopefully DW doesn't wait too long to cut his losses like he did with Niemi.

 

[Bleedred]

Goalies who have a terrible regular season normally don't turn a corner when the playoffs start. Hopefully DW doesn't wait too long to cut his losses like he did with Niemi.

It's happened before, but the last one to dramatically turn around was Chris Osgood in 2008-2009. He was an .887% goalie in 46 games in the regular season, while being a .926% goalie in 23 games in the 2009 playoffs, and making it to the SCF as the hard luck loser.

I'm not even gonna mention Brodeur in 2012, as Jones has been significantly worse this year than Brodeur was that regular season.

And there's no way he gets anything back for Jones right now, who arguably has the second worst goalie contract in the NHL after Carey Price. If he has another season like this next year, you can hope for two amnesty buyouts with the next CBA and use one on him and the other on Vlasic.

 

[Bizz]

It's happened before, but the last one to dramatically turn around was Chris Osgood in 2008-2009. He was an .887% goalie in 46 games in the regular season, while being a .926% goalie in 23 games in the 2009 playoffs, and making it to the SCF as the hard luck loser.

I'm not even gonna mention Brodeur in 2012, as Jones has been significantly worse this year than Brodeur was that regular season.

And there's no way he gets anything back for Jones right now, who arguably has the second worst goalie contract in the NHL after Carey Price. If he has another season like this next year, you can hope for two amnesty buyouts with the next CBA and use one on him and the other on Vlasic.

Both of those goalies are in the HOF too. Jones isn't anywhere near HOF caliber, and will never be.

I would trade Vlasic to Seattle in exchange for them picking Jones in the expansion draft.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Both of those goalies are in the HOF too. Jones isn't anywhere near HOF caliber, and will never be.

I would trade Vlasic to Seattle in exchange for them picking Jones in the expansion draft.

Osgood is not in the HOF and never should be. Now that you guys brought him up though he's a pretty good comparable for Jones without the mental frailty. Osgood has to be one of the worst Stanley Cup winning goalies of the last 40 years.

 

[Bleedred]

Both of those goalies are in the HOF too. Jones isn't anywhere near HOF caliber, and will never be.

I would trade Vlasic to Seattle in exchange for them picking Jones in the expansion draft.

You'd have to send Seattle an actual decent player to get them to pick Jones. Not a now-poor defenseman on a terrible contract.

Osgood is not in the HOF and never should be. Now that you guys brought him up though he's a pretty good comparable for Jones without the mental frailty. Osgood has to be one of the worst Stanley Cup winning goalies of the last 40 years.

I would say Niemi and Ward were definitely worse, but Osgood might be the worst to win multiple cups as a starting goalie. Ward is also the worst Conn Smythe winner of probably the last 30 years or even longer. Not that he didn't deserve the Conn Smythe that year, it's just that he's been a mediocre goalie throughout his career and that Conn Smythe isn't really representative of what kind of player he is for the majority of his career.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I would say Niemi and Ward were definitely worse, but Osgood might be the worst to win multiple cups as a starting goalie. Ward is also the worst Conn Smythe winner of probably the last 30 years or even longer. Not that he didn't deserve the Conn Smythe that year, it's just that he's been a mediocre goalie throughout his career and that Conn Smythe isn't really representative of what kind of player he is for the majority of his career.

When I say worst I mean worst in doing it, not their overall career. Osgood never stole a series or outplayed the other goalie, he just had the most dominant team in front of him covering up his inadequacies. Hoping that's what the Sharks can do this year once the playoffs start. I still think this team will tighten up as they get closer to the playoffs.

 

[Herschel]

Goalies who have a terrible regular season normally don't turn a corner when the playoffs start. Hopefully DW doesn't wait too long to cut his losses like he did with Niemi.

Depending on your definitions Holby last season is an example. His regular season was so bad he wasn't even their starter in games 1 & 2.

Reg
2.99 (43rd) GA
.907 (43rd) SV%

In the playoffs .922 and 2.16

Rankings based on playing a minimum of 20 games.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Osgood is not in the HOF and never should be. Now that you guys brought him up though he's a pretty good comparable for Jones without the mental frailty. Osgood has to be one of the worst Stanley Cup winning goalies of the last 40 years.

Osgood was a fine goaltender for certain teams. He could log tons of minutes and do well without a ton of action. He could make the save necessary to preserve a win. You'd think a lot of goalies would like playing behind a great team that controlled the puck for 70+% of the game, but the vast majority of goaltenders in such situations lose focus and end up yielding a lot of sloppy goals.

 

[hockeyball]

It's funny, I was thinking the other day that Jones reminds me a lot of Osgood heh.

Something is seriously wrong, injury, pad issues, something. He's been pretty consistently 'fine' in the regular season for years. Then this year he's just absolutely horrible, what happened? I don't think it's a lack of effort. Which is why I'm not convinced he'll be great in the playoffs again this year, something is off and I don't think any amount of effort is going to fix it. I think Dell just isn't all that great, which is why I still don't understand why they haven't made some kind of excuse to call up Korenar to give him a cup of coffee.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Osgood was a fine goaltender for certain teams. He could log tons of minutes and do well without a ton of action. He could make the save necessary to preserve a win. You'd think a lot of goalies would like playing behind a great team that controlled the puck for 70+% of the game, but the vast majority of goaltenders in such situations lose focus and end up yielding a lot of sloppy goals.

Did you watch him much? All he did was let in crappy goals. Geez he let in the most famous goal in Sharks history on a dumb play as a rookie. He was incredibly mediocre.

 

[Bleedred]

Did you watch him much? All he did was let in crappy goals. Geez he let in the most famous goal in Sharks history on a dumb play as a rookie. He was incredibly mediocre.

Roman Turek also gave him a run for softest playoff goal in Sharks history.

Another guy I've seen Jones compared to lately.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Roman Turek also gave him a run for softest playoff goal in Sharks history.

Another guy I've seen Jones compared to lately.

I said famous not softest. Before they made that SCF the upset of the redwings was the biggest moment in franchise history.

Turek was very good in the regular season (at least for a while) and a sieve in the playoffs. Jones so far has proven to be the opposite.

 

[stator]

Yep. The defense has been garbage.

There's not a single goalie in the league that would look good in front of it.

Doesn't make sense, both statements. Martin Jones was, until recently, #1 ranked in wins, but #41 ranked in SV% among qualified goalies. Those two stats make a strong suggestion on Martin's performance. And, it ain't good. He's lucky to be playing behind a team like the Sharks.

 

[Barrie22]

Doesn't make sense, both statements. Martin Jones was, until recently, #1 ranked in wins, but #41 ranked in SV% among qualified goalies. Those two stats make a strong suggestion on Martin's performance. And, it ain't good. He's lucky to be playing behind a team like the Sharks.

And it could also be unlucky. How many breakaways or 2-3-4 on 1's does he have to face every single game because the players in front of him are always blind in the defensive zone.

 

[Sharksrule04]

I'm not going to say Jones is a good or bad goalie, but as a person whose played goalie, my opinion is that he stylistically isn't good for the Sharks. He is a structured positional goalie. He isn't overly athletic and his reflexes really aren't great. He thrives with vision and positioning. The Sharks need a goalie that is more like Jon Quick from his peak. A guy who can scramble, recover and roam. That sort of goalie makes the very difficult saves that appear to the normal fan like he's stealing a game. Whether those difficult saves are partially their own fault due to style is another story. Jones however tends to not make those jaw dropping saves because it just doesn't fit with his style. He'll kick his leg out and make great saves on cross ice one timer but he rarely will make an amazing save with his glove or blocker. He belongs on a team that sits back and keeps shots off to the side and rarely takes chances offensively. I'm thinking old school Devils, Minnesota etc...

Obviously any team would want a peak Jon Quick. If we had a goalie with that style but similar skill level to Jones I think he'd look a lot better and perform a lot better than Jones currently is. Luckily playoff hockey tightens up a bit which is where Jones seems to thrive.

 

[treefiddy]

Doesn't make sense, both statements. Martin Jones was, until recently, #1 ranked in wins, but #41 ranked in SV% among qualified goalies. Those two stats make a strong suggestion on Martin's performance. And, it ain't good. He's lucky to be playing behind a team like the Sharks.

Weird that Dell is seeing the exact same thing happen to his stat line...

It’s almost like there’s some cause to them both looking bad.







...Defense

 

[hockeyball]

Weird that Dell is seeing the exact same thing happen to his stat line...

It’s almost like there’s some cause to them both looking bad.







...Defense

Lot's of teams have bad defense, their goalies still manage better numbers than ours.

 

[Barrie22]

Lot's of teams have bad defense, their goalies still manage better numbers than ours.

I have never seen any other team allow as many odd man rushes as the sharks allow. This might be the best sharks team on paper offensively and defensively but they absolutely suck at actual defense.

There is no excuse for the 1st goal versus columbus to happen. But that happens multiple times per game against the sharks.

There maybe worse defenses on paper. But if i remember correctly jones faces the most high danger shots out of all the goalies in the league.

Every team allows high danger shots. But it is not just some weird odd coincidence that the games where the sharks limit those chances jones looks good. But when they go back to the lazy ass defense jones looks bad again.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Lot's of teams have bad defense, their goalies still manage better numbers than ours.

Those other teams give up more easy perimeter shots than we do honestly.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I have never seen any other team allow as many odd man rushes as the sharks allow. This might be the best sharks team on paper offensively and defensively but they absolutely suck at actual defense.

There is no excuse for the 1st goal versus columbus to happen. But that happens multiple times per game against the sharks.

There maybe worse defenses on paper. But if i remember correctly jones faces the most high danger shots out of all the goalies in the league.

Every team allows high danger shots. But it is not just some weird odd coincidence that the games where the sharks limit those chances jones looks good. But when they go back to the lazy ass defense jones looks bad again.

Based on stats from Natural Stat Trick, we are 14th worst in the league for HDCA (558) but 3rd worst at HDSV% (.79). So, basically we are pretty much close to league average for high danger chances but one of the worst at making saves in those cases.