Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel II

[King Pavel]

Quick Kenny, trade for Edler for our 5th round pick while Vancouver's having their liquidation "everything half off" sale!

 

[Shaman464]

Oh so now it's Hollands fault ovechkin is poor defensively

No, it's the system he's been in that has allowed him to become a defensive floater.

PS Holland is responsible for only about 95% of the wrong in the world.

 

[FlashyG]

He'd be our 3rd best D at worst.

I don't really disagree, but the problem is the guys who are better than him are left handed and the kid who is likely to surpass him before his contract is up is also left handed.

He'd be a 5 million dollar 3rd pairing guy here possibly before the end of this season.

 

[Vladdy84]

No, it's the system he's been in that has allowed him to become a defensive floater.

PS Holland is responsible for only about 95% of the wrong in the world.

Oh maybe Ovie doesn't give a **** about playing D?

 

[Claypool]

Why would he have to play on the bottom pairing? He could bump Smith down and Kindl out.

Because they want to bring in a right-handed shooting defenseman that can quarterback a power play (Boyle). And again, Garrison makes too much money for what he'd bring to this team.

 

[joe89]

Why would he have to play on the bottom pairing? He could bump Smith down and Kindl out.

Wings have other targets that suit bigger needs, let's just wait and see if we get one of them first. But we're trying to improve on Quincey obviously for that top4 spot.

 

[Shaman464]

Oh maybe Ovie doesn't give a **** about playing D?

And it's the managements job to make him give a ****. It turns out coaches' have to motivate their players to do more than just what they want to.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Garrison does nothing for the Wings that any "bargain FA" you'd complain about them signing in a week or so wouldn't at a lower price than his salary.

A lot of times, people just want new players regardless of whether they'd actually improve the team. Trading for Garrison would have been that.

 

[FlashyG]

I don't care what pairing he plays on. He'll bump someone that sucks out of the lineup.

Kronwall-Ericsson
Garrison-DeKeyser
Smith-Lashoff

That would probably end the same or worse than last year.

DeKeyser would regress greatly switching to the other side of the ice and having to do everything backwards from the way he's played his entire career.

Lashoff would be in the line-up full time, and because of Garrison's salary we likely would lose the ability to re-sign Alfie or to add a forward to replace him. We'd be pushed to the cap adding a defenceman that doesn't address the problem of having all LH defenceman.

If the defenceman is LH I don't care how good he is or what he gets paid we don't want or need him.

 

[Ricelund]

If the defenceman is LH I don't care how good he is or what he gets paid we don't want or need him.

That's a silly way of thinking.

 

[opivy]

And it's the managements job to make him give a ****. It turns out coaches' have to motivate their players to do more than just what they want to.

Don't pay him as the highest paid player in the NHL if he's not performing to your wants. It's that simple, if he's performing at a level you deem worth 9.5m+ then pay him. Defense has never been his gig, a few hits and laser accurate shooting is what he brings.

 

[The Zermanator]

If Holland ever grow a pair of balls made of steel and he was under Babcock and Datsyuk for a couple seasons I would bet that he would become one of the better 2 way players in the league. The whole Washington system for a lot of years was '5 forwards, lets out score them, **** our goalie'.

Take another look at that gif. That is BEYOND giving up on the play, other players hustle more in practice. There's only so much management can do, there has to be desire on the part of the player. OV seems more than content just being the guy that scores goals.

 

[Shaman464]

As for people not wanting to pony up for a FA or trade a lot of assets for a trade just look at the Kesler trade:

Players want to play for contenders, Vancouver got a package that Tatar+15th overall would have beaten because Kesler only wanted to play for a contender. The same goes for FA they will take a little less money, but only to play for a team that will repay them in other ways, like a cup ring. Until Detroit can offer that we should only expect to have to pay market value.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

That would probably end the same or worse than last year.

DeKeyser would regress greatly switching to the other side of the ice and having to do everything backwards from the way he's played his entire career.

Lashoff would be in the line-up full time, and because of Garrison's salary we likely would lose the ability to re-sign Alfie or to add a forward to replace him. We'd be pushed to the cap adding a defenceman that doesn't address the problem of having all LH defenceman.

If the defenceman is LH I don't care how good he is or what he gets paid we don't want or need him.

I agree with your last sentence to a point. However, if a guy like OEL is out there for the taking, I can deal with him being a LH D. But any reasonable acquistion? Yeah, I want it to be a RH D.

 

[FlashyG]

That's a silly way of thinking.

Having no right handed D is why our PP has regressed. Its why we our transition game has gotten worse, and its why we constantly have defenceman looking out of place.

On every pairing there is a guy who is playing a position that is unnatural and difficult to adjust to. Other than Ericsson, none of our defenceman have been very good at the transition.

Adding a righty, and promoting Marchenko would make a massive difference to our team. Bringing in another lefty is just compounding the problem.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

zero interest in garrison

but hopefully it pipes those down who still believe players nowadays are traded for an arm and a leg or would gut the system or would cripple the franchise or any of that other hyperbole

 

[Ricelund]

Having no right handed D is why our PP has regressed. Its why we our transition game has gotten worse, and its why we constantly have defenceman looking out of place.

On every pairing there is a guy who is playing a position that is unnatural and difficult to adjust to. Other than Ericsson, none of our defenceman have been very good at the transition.

Adding a righty, and promoting Marchenko would make a massive difference to our team. Bringing in another lefty is just compounding the problem.

Yes, handedness is an issue, but so is talent. Kindl and Lashoff aren't regular NHL defensemen.

Do you think if you inserted Suter (a lefty), this team's transition game would still suck?

Bouwmeester shoots left. That didn't stop the Wings from going after him hard at the '13 deadline.

 

[drw02]

Having no right handed D is why our PP has regressed. Its why we our transition game has gotten worse, and its why we constantly have defenceman looking out of place.

On every pairing there is a guy who is playing a position that is unnatural and difficult to adjust to. Other than Ericsson, none of our defenceman have been very good at the transition.

Adding a righty, and promoting Marchenko would make a massive difference to our team. Bringing in another lefty is just compounding the problem.

But you don't want to move DeKeyser over to his natural side? He'd probably benefit from moving over there not regress.

 

[FlashyG]

Yes, handedness is an issue, but so is talent. Kindl and Lashoff aren't regular NHL defensemen.

Do you think if you inserted Suter (a lefty), this team's transition game would still suck?

I think it would improve, but not by the amount we would like, or to the level it was at with Lidstrom and Rafalski.

It would also mean one of him or Kronwall would have to play on the 2nd pair because neither one plays on the right side.

Even though he's older and a lot less talented I think Boyle would improve our transition game more than Suter.

Kronwall (LH) - Boyle (RH)
Dekeyser (LH) - Ericsson (LH - but the only lefty we have who plays well on the right side)
Smith (LH) - Marchenko (RH)
Lashoff, Kindl

 

[sepster]

There once was a player who scored 65 goals and 155 points in a season that was considered a defensive floater by one of the greatest coaches in professional sports history. He even got threatened with being traded over it. That guy under the right system turned into the gold standard for two-way players.

This is a huge myth. Go back and look up what Jaques Demers and Bryan Murray have to say about Yzerman and playing a complete game. He may not have been playing at a Selke level, but by no means was he ever a strictly one-way player, let alone just give up the way Ovechkin does.

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8147906&wjb

Steve Yzerman doesn't think he has changed much at all. "When you come into the league as an offensive player," he says, "people think you can't play defense."

Trottier, who battled Yzerman for more than a decade before retiring in 1994, knows better. "Who are these people who say that?" Trottier says. "I played against him back then and I remember him killing penalties, hustling and back-checking. I guess no one else does."

"I've always thought of Stevie as a good defensive player," says Pang, who played midget hockey with Yzerman. "People forget that he played his junior hockey at Peterborough, where you have to play both ends of the rink. And they forget that when he arrived in Detroit, the team wasn't very good, and they needed his offensive skills."

 

[Yzerman1919*]

Wowwwwwww Garrison for 50th pick??? Kenny Holland you coulda got him and kept Tatar, Smith, XO, Sproul, Nyquist.

Ship Anderson or Kindl or Ferraro.

Ugh

 

[FlashyG]

But you don't want to move DeKeyser over to his natural side? He'd probably benefit from moving over there not regress.

I do want him to move back over to his side, he was far better this year when he played there, but due to our complete lack of right handers he kept getting moved back to the right.

 

[Ricelund]

I think it would improve, but not by the amount we would like, or to the level it was at with Lidstrom and Rafalski.

It would also mean one of him or Kronwall would have to play on the 2nd pair because neither one plays on the right side.

Even though he's older and a lot less talented I think Boyle would improve our transition game more than Suter.

No one is going to improve it to the level it was at with Lidstrom and Rafalski. Obviously.

But you are kidding yourself if you think Dan Boyle would do more for this team than Ryan Suter right now just because Boyle's right-handed.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Interesting. Think Garrison means TB is out on Boyle?

 

[drw02]

I do want him to move back over to his side, he was far better this year when he played there, but due to our complete lack of right handers he kept getting moved back to the right.

Sorry I read your post wrong..thought you were saying you wanted DK at RD.