Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel II

[LeighDx59]

Given that Chicago and Philly are already over the cap, who do you see getting moved? Most likely Hossa for Chicago seeing how Patrick Sharp's agent was reassured he wasn't being moved. But provided Lecavalier can't be moved due to his horrible contract, you'd think Simmonds is the one on the move?

Also, with Boston having just under $1.7mil to resign Krug, Caron, Bartkowski, Smith and Iginla, you'd have to assume Iginla's let go with at least one RFA.

I would love to see an offer sheet put in for Krug, it would be amazing to see him in a Red Wings jersey next season. Makes one of Smith, Ouellet, Backman expendable too in trade talks in terms of young, LH defensive prospects.

Edit: I see that putting Savard on LTIR gives them $5,697,500 to work with. I still find it rough considering they currently have no RW signed and six NHL-caliber defensemen signed to decent contracts as it is.

I would love Simmonds in a Wings uniform. He usuallys scores those dirty net front goals, he would essentially be the ideal linemate for Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the top line.

 

[King Pavel]

I would love Simmonds in a Wings uniform. He usuallys scores those dirty net front goals, he would essentially be the ideal linemate for Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the top line.

Totally agree, that's why I mentioned him as a potential trade target considering his name was already coming up last year on the block. He's exactly what we need paired on that top line with Datsyuk and Zetterberg; a strong, gritty, talented forward who's willing to put in those dirty goals in front of the net when Dats and Z need him to, it would be an amazing top line to watch come playoff time, not to mention he's only 25 producing at about a 50-60 point pace at this stage in his career.

I think he could be had for something like Pulkkinen and the 2014 3rd round.

 

[SimplySolace]

Totally agree, that's why I mentioned him as a potential trade target considering his name was already coming up last year on the block. He's exactly what we need paired on that top line with Datsyuk and Zetterberg; a strong, gritty, talented forward who's willing to put in those dirty goals in front of the net when Dats and Z need him to, it would be an amazing top line to watch come playoff time, not to mention he's only 25 producing at about a 50-60 point pace at this stage in his career.

I think he could be had for something like Pulkkinen and the 2014 3rd round.

You're oh so wrong.

 

[King Pavel]

You're oh so wrong.

Yes I know now reading the Flyers threads, it sounds like they wouldn't be taking anything less than Tatar+2014 3rd+2015 1st.

I undersold Simmonds way too much, too excited by the prospect of him coming here haha.

 

[Boomhower]

Pronger will be LTIR and not count anyways.

After that they will aggressively try and dump Vinny L... even if they have to retain some salary.

Then I look at an underperforming player like Luke Schenn as the next possible cap casuality. Simmonds, I think they wisely hold on to him.

For Detroit, I don't see much use in Luke Schenn or Vinny at this point.

 

[Crymson]

I would love Simmonds in a Wings uniform. He usuallys scores those dirty net front goals, he would essentially be the ideal linemate for Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the top line.

He could easily score [insert arbitrary number here] goals playing alongside Datsyuk.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

flyers are not gonna give simmonds away

as dumb as they as an organization have bene in the past they're also clever at working the cap

lecavalier will go to florida or nashville for like a 4th rd pick

pronger will go on to LTIR

this clears almost 10 million off the books

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

flyers are not gonna give simmonds away

as dumb as they as an organization have bene in the past they're also clever at working the cap

lecavalier will go to florida or nashville for like a 4th rd pick

pronger will go on to LTIR

this clears almost 10 million off the books

Yeah and I also think Philly is going to operate differently under Hextall. So a lot of the conceptions people are applying to the team aren't necessarily accurate. His first move of shipping Hartnell had a lot more long-term thought to it, dealing Simmonds doesn't fit his initial direction, though I think some of this comes from the idea he was on a team where Simmonds was expendable. I don't think he is available on the cheap at all especially with Hartnell leaving, that made B. Schenn and Simmonds much larger pieces for them and tougher to move.

 

[detredWINgs]

I like Simmonds but Philly needs wingers. Can only see them shipping off Simmonds if it's as part of a deal for a top pairing D.

Philly would be a good trade partner if were talking about trading a similar aged winger for one of their centers in a year or two.

 

[bababooeyII]

What's going on with Derek Morris is he still available? Not the worst option, he has some size and uses it and is a right hand shot.

 

[Flowah]

I would love Simmonds in a Wings uniform. He usuallys scores those dirty net front goals, he would essentially be the ideal linemate for Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the top line.

Every time I watch the Flyers, I wish I could transplant Simmonds's work ethic into Franzen. Simmonds is a worker. He's not overly big but you wouldn't be able to tell from the way he drives the net.

He'd be great on this team.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

its funny how holland has said in the past that the draft wknd is the best time for trading and yet despite such an overwhelming need to acquire a top 3 dman and move some excess bodies he sat on his thumb and done ziltch..

 

[Tasteslikekevinbacon]

its funny how holland has said in the past that the draft wknd is the best time for trading and yet despite such an overwhelming need to acquire a top 3 dman and move some excess bodies he sat on his thumb and done ziltch..

It's probably pretty difficult to get a rhythm with you standing over his shoulder scrutinizing him.

In all seriousness though, I doubt he's not trying, but rather that the assets the organization would like are simply at too high a price. Lets face it, even the moves we love to regularly love to scrutinize have likely had stories behind them we simply aren't aware of.

It's not that I don't get the frustration, of course.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It's probably pretty difficult to get a rhythm with you standing over his shoulder scrutinizing him.

In all seriousness though, I doubt he's not trying, but rather that the assets the organization would like are simply at too high a price. Lets face it, even the moves we love to regularly love to scrutinize have likely had stories behind them we simply aren't aware of.

It's not that I don't get the frustration, of course.

i dont believe its too high of a price

i have watched the trade market for years and not once did i say, wow team x payed wayyyy more then they should have

i think ken holland is simply not very active and rather waits for guys to come to him

 

[bababooeyII]

It's probably pretty difficult to get a rhythm with you standing over his shoulder scrutinizing him.

In all seriousness though, I doubt he's not trying, but rather that the assets the organization would like are simply at too high a price. Lets face it, even the moves we love to regularly love to scrutinize have likely had stories behind them we simply aren't aware of.

It's not that I don't get the frustration, of course.

So instead let's not make any moves, keep all the prospects and then risk losing them for nothing when they're out of waiver options? Is that sound roster management?

 

[SoupNazi]

So instead let's not make any moves, keep all the prospects and then risk losing them for nothing when they're out of waiver options? Is that sound roster management?

The prospects we risk losing don't really have NHL futures.

Ritola, Mursak, Almquist...not really guys worth losing sleep over.

 

[bababooeyII]

The prospects we risk losing don't really have NHL futures.

Ritola, Mursak, Almquist...not really guys worth losing sleep over.

Risked losing, the present prospects seem to be NHL ready. Look at how deep the prospect pool is in Grand Rapids there is just no way they can keep them all. This doesn't even take into account guys like Ben Marshall and a few others. They're loaded and they cannot keep them all.

 

[SoupNazi]

Risked losing, the present prospects seem to be NHL ready. Look at how deep the prospect pool is in Grand Rapids there is just no way they can keep them all. This doesn't even take into account guys like Ben Marshall and a few others. They're loaded and they cannot keep them all.

Just to point it out: just because they seem ready to you doesn't mean they're viewed that way by the people paid to evaluate such things.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Just to point it out: just because they seem ready to you doesn't mean they're viewed that way by the people paid to evaluate such things.

to be fair, these same evaluators evaluated weiss, commodore, modano, samuelsson, tootoo, quincey, et al

 

[Tasteslikekevinbacon]

i dont believe its too high of a price

i have watched the trade market for years and not once did i say, wow team x payed wayyyy more then they should have

i think ken holland is simply not very active and rather waits for guys to come to him

If we are talking about the pieces we are rumoured to be interested in (yandle, Myers) then I don't think it's really fair to compare that to recent market. There's not been many 6'8" potential franchise dmen on the market. I see your point, but I also think prices are just different for Kenny. Nobody wants to help us become a winning machine again.

 

[Tasteslikekevinbacon]

Just to point it out: just because they seem ready to you doesn't mean they're viewed that way by the people paid to evaluate such things.

Exactly right. If they are NHL ready, they'll be there. For now, until proven otherwise, they're not. I loved watching oullet and sproul vs St. Louis, but I have no delusions. It was injury depleted St. Louis, without most of their top players. Plus, don't most of them have at least another season of waiver exemption? Plenty of time to make decisions.

 

[detredWINgs]

If we are talking about the pieces we are rumoured to be interested in (yandle, Myers) then I don't think it's really fair to compare that to recent market. There's not been many 6'8" potential franchise dmen on the market. I see your point, but I also think prices are just different for Kenny. Nobody wants to help us become a winning machine again.

Prices are just different for Kenny? I've seen this opinion bandied about and I think it's a load of crap. The prices seem high from our perspective because we value our pieces in the same way our organization does but much of the rest of the league isn't going to take the risk of biting on guys who've barely played on NHL ice at 22 or 23. The perfect example of this was the alleged Nyquist and Smith deal being turned down that everyone loves to laugh at in retrospect. And yet Nyquist was a 23 year old who still hadn't proven he was anything at the NHL level and Smith was bumbling around the NHL in his first season as a 24 year old.

And...worried about making Detroit a winning machine again? This isn't 2004. If that logic held, LA and Chicago wouldn't be pulling off shrewd moves at all and Anaheim wouldn't have just landed Kesler for a reasonable price.

 

[SoupNazi]

And...worried about making Detroit a winning machine again? This isn't 2004. If that logic held, LA and Chicago wouldn't be pulling off shrewd moves at all and Anaheim wouldn't have just landed Kesler for a reasonable price.

True. But Anaheim is a bad example of having won lately.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Prices are just different for Kenny? I've seen this opinion bandied about and I think it's a load of crap. The prices seem high from our perspective because we value our pieces in the same way our organization does but much of the rest of the league isn't going to take the risk of biting on guys who've barely played on NHL ice at 22 or 23. The perfect example of this was the alleged Nyquist and Smith deal being turned down that everyone loves to laugh at in retrospect. And yet Nyquist was a 23 year old who still hadn't proven he was anything at the NHL level and Smith was bumbling around the NHL in his first season as a 24 year old.

And...worried about making Detroit a winning machine again? This isn't 2004. If that logic held, LA and Chicago wouldn't be pulling off shrewd moves at all and Anaheim wouldn't have just landed Kesler for a reasonable price.

people love to think ken holland and the DRW have to pay higher prices because their is a collective will to not let us win or appear to be helping us

thats just flat out wrong

its not true

we simply have a GM who can not read the market and act accordingly, he can not part with roster players he can not make important decisions. ken holland is great at drafting and creating a strong development system and over-reacting because he is under prepared

we will probably sign boyle to a two year 12 millionish dollar deal as a reactionary move to not being able to address the issue babcock repeatedly has told him is a problem

 

[Crymson]

its funny how holland has said in the past that the draft wknd is the best time for trading and yet despite such an overwhelming need to acquire a top 3 dman and move some excess bodies he sat on his thumb and done ziltch..

He trades draft picks, and that's about it. Only twice has he traded a player at the draft (in 2000 and 2001); one was for a draft pick, and the other for future considerations.

And that's all in his 17 drafts. My guess is that you misunderstood something he said, because it's very clearly not his style to make draft-day trades.