Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel II

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

And Maltby was the biggest pest of his generation. That doesn't make him a generational talent. A generational talent is someone who does everything in the game at an elite level, and for a lot of years. Think 1000 points for a forward as the cut off for even being in the conversation (since the 80's anyway).

Wait a second... what have Zetterberg and Datsyuk not done at an elite level? Both are PPG or near PPG for most of the decade as well as being Selke or near-Selke level defensively.

The only thing that they haven't done at an elite level is play 100% of their games. If not for injuries, their pace puts them at 1000 points or more. When they've played, they've played at that talent level.

 

[Ricelund]

@VanCanucks:

#Canucks acquire 50th overall pick from Tampa Bay for Jason Garrison, the rights to Jeff Costello and Van's 7th round pick in 2015.

Prices just too high.

 

[The Zermanator]

Datsyuk isn't even the best Russian of his generation. Ovechkin has more goals, and points in 150 less games. I would even say one could argue he's not even top 3 Russians on the Red Wings in their history.

Can somebody please post that gif of Ovechkin loafing around his own net and the other team scores? The one with the EA NHL marker over his head, which then disappears with a "controller not connected" message.

That's the difference between Ovechkin and Datsyuk. Ovechkin may have more points, but Datsyuk has prevented a hell of a lot more goals against.

 

[Shaman464]

You don't consider Crosby a generational talent? Lindros? LaFleur? Richard? Roy? Brodeur? I could go on.

You're being way too stingy with the generational talent label. D and Z are definitely generational talents. Especially Datsyuk. Not often do you see a player who can master both ends of the ice like he has.

My list wasn't exhaustive, Ovie and Crosby would be generational talents. Lemieux, Roy, Brodeur, LaFleur, Richard, etc. But still these guys were at another level compared to Z and D.

 

[Shaman464]

Wait a second... what have Zetterberg and Datsyuk not done at an elite level? Both are PPG or near PPG for most of the decade as well as being Selke or near-Selke level defensively.

The only thing that they haven't done at an elite level is play 100% of their games. If not for injuries, their pace puts them at 1000 points or more. When they've played, they've played at that talent level.

They aren't elite scores. They are good, even great some seasons, but, remember they are being out paced by kids like Stamkos, Ovie, Crosby in PPG and in some cases totals. They are GREAT players, but they are not GENERATIONAL talents.

 

[SirloinUB]

Can somebody please post that gif of Ovechkin loafing around his own net and the other team scores? The one with the EA NHL marker over his head, which then disappears with a "controller not connected" message.

That's the difference between Ovechkin and Datsyuk. Ovechkin may have more points, but Datsyuk has prevented a hell of a lot more goals against.

There are 3 or 4 similar highlight clips of Ovechkin just mailing it in. His approach to the game at a profesional level really is laughable

 

[FlashyG]

Can somebody please post that gif of Ovechkin loafing around his own net and the other team scores? The one with the EA NHL marker over his head, which then disappears with a "controller not connected" message.

That's the difference between Ovechkin and Datsyuk. Ovechkin may have more points, but Datsyuk has prevented a hell of a lot more goals against.

 

[The Zermanator]

My list wasn't exhaustive, Ovie and Crosby would be generational talents. Lemieux, Roy, Brodeur, LaFleur, Richard, etc. But still these guys were at another level compared to Z and D.

They absolutely weren't at another level. The only way I can imagine you think that is if you're not taking defense into account. Most of those other guys mentioned did not particularly distinguish themselves defensively (that's too generous for some of them, i.e. Ovie), while Datsyuk and Zetterberg are elite defensively. Defense is just as important as offense.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

when did Wings fans become so pessimistic?

When they were born into the most successful organization of their era and thus don't have a big picture perspective.

 

[FlashyG]

@VanCanucks:

Prices just too high.

Not sure if sarcasm.

I doubt the Wings had even the slightest interest in Garrison. We've got enough left side defenceman.

 

[SoupNazi]

@VanCanucks:

Prices just too high.

Wonder what that does to Tampa's quest for Boyle.

 

[The Zermanator]

There's your generational talent, everybody! Thanks, Flashy.

 

[Shaman464]

There are 3 or 4 similar highlight clips of Ovechkin just mailing it in. His approach to the game at a profesional level really is laughable

There once was a player who scored 65 goals and 155 points in a season that was considered a defensive floater by one of the greatest coaches in professional sports history. He even got threatened with being traded over it. That guy under the right system turned into the gold standard for two-way players.

 

[Ricelund]

Not sure if sarcasm.

I doubt the Wings had even the slightest interest in Garrison. We've got enough left side defenceman.

When you're rolling Lashoff and Kindl on a nightly basis, you don't have enough defensemen.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Datsyuk isn't even the best Russian of his generation. Ovechkin has more goals, and points in 150 less games. I would even say one could argue he's not even top 3 Russians on the Red Wings in their history.

I know plus/minus isn't a stat that usually carries a ton of weight, but Ovy is at 45 for his career and Pavel Datsyuk is at 230. Points are only one way to contribute.

 

[The Zermanator]

There once was a player who scored 65 goals and 155 points in a season that was considered a defensive floater by one of the greatest coaches in professional sports history. He even got threatened with being traded over it. That guy under the right system turned into the gold standard for two-way players.

When Ovechkin becomes the next Yzerman, I'll reconsider.

 

[FlashyG]

When you're rolling Lashoff and Kindl on a nightly basis, you don't have enough defensemen.

So you want to pay a guy 4.6 million of your cap to play on the 3rd pairing?

We need defenceman, but we need Right handed guys who play the other side.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Also, PPG is elite. PPG while playing the level of defense they do is generationally elite.

 

[Claypool]

When you're rolling Lashoff and Kindl on a nightly basis, you don't have enough defensemen.

They're not going to trade for a defenseman who makes nearly 5 million a season for the next four years to play bottom pairing minutes.

 

[gretskidoo]

Not sure if sarcasm.

I doubt the Wings had even the slightest interest in Garrison. We've got enough left side defenceman.

He'd be our 3rd best D at worst.

 

[Shaman464]

When Ovechkin becomes the next Yzerman, I'll reconsider.

If Holland ever grow a pair of balls made of steel and he was under Babcock and Datsyuk for a couple seasons I would bet that he would become one of the better 2 way players in the league. The whole Washington system for a lot of years was '5 forwards, lets out score them, **** our goalie'.

 

[Ricelund]

So you want to pay a guy 4.6 million of your cap to play on the 3rd pairing?

We need defenceman, but we need Right handed guys who play the other side.

I don't care what pairing he plays on. He'll bump someone that sucks out of the lineup.

Kronwall-Ericsson
Garrison-DeKeyser
Smith-Lashoff

 

[chances14]

If Holland ever grow a pair of balls made of steel and he was under Babcock and Datsyuk for a couple seasons I would bet that he would become one of the better 2 way players in the league. The whole Washington system for a lot of years was '5 forwards, lets out score them, **** our goalie'.

Oh so now it's Hollands fault ovechkin is poor defensively

 

[Shaman464]

I don't care what pairing he plays on. He'll bump someone that sucks out of the lineup.

Kronwall-Ericsson
Garrison-DeKeyser
Smith-Lashoff

Garrison would definitely add some depth to the middle of our defense.

 

[Ricelund]

They're not going to trade for a defenseman who makes nearly 5 million a season for the next four years to play bottom pairing minutes.

Why would he have to play on the bottom pairing? He could bump Smith down and Kindl out.