Plans, Trades, and Automobiles: Fixing the Winged Wheel II

[SoupNazi]

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[bullocks]

It's funny, three years ago i proposed a hudler and a 2nd swap for campbell when hudler was entering the last year of his contract and campbell was chicagos #4 on the main board. most people balked at it, but some thought it was ideal. A year later hudler walks for nothing and we lose lidstrom with no replacement.

Whats funnier, someone who is now promoting campbell on the last thread said and i quote "good lord no...this is the chance to get better not siginficantly worse". I also recall people on here saying how much campbell "sucked".

Good times.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=917580

 

[Frk It]

Apparently Spezza's preferred trade destination is St. Louis.

 

[jaster]

Campbell has big holes in his game, but he also has some valuable strengths, and he definitely doesn't suck. For every time he hurts you, he helps you at least a couple times. I'm not really a fan, he's not the type of Dman I enjoy watching, but there is a place for him. If you have a balanced blueline, he can be a great help.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It's funny, three years ago i proposed a hudler and a 2nd swap for campbell when hudler was entering the last year of his contract and campbell was chicagos #4 on the main board. most people balked at it, but some thought it was ideal. A year later hudler walks for nothing and we lose lidstrom with no replacement.

Whats funnier, someone who is now promoting campbell on the last thread said and i quote "good lord no...this is the chance to get better not siginficantly worse". I also recall people on here saying how much campbell "sucked".

Good times.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=917580

Considering the two situations are completely different, not sure how you are surprised.

 

[bullocks]

Considering the two situations are completely different, not sure how you are surprised.

Not really. He got traded from Chicago and put up pretty good numbers playing tons of minutes for the next two years. He always had that talent and ability. He's making the same amount he did then as he is now (tho the cap did go up). But people are still saying theyd take his full salary now. He's exactly what we needed and you have to take gambles for trades to pay off. IE - Jeff Carter to LA.

Too many people were on the Campbell "sucks" bandwagon started primarily on hfboards, to see his real value.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I don't think Campbell is an ideal pick-up. I do think our options are much more limited three years later and we have to take what we can get.

Yes, the situations are different.

 

[bullocks]

I don't think Campbell is an ideal pick-up. I do think our options are much more limited three years later and we have to take what we can get.

Yes, the situations are different.

Holland could have fore shadowed for this (and im a holland supporter). But did nothing knowing we'd lose Lidstrom soon and already did Rafalski. His plan was taking a swing at Suter/Weber and struck out.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I haven't posted in a while but I was thinking...
Why not trade Howard?
He has good value. He has a cap friendly deal. I would think he could be part of a package for a young top pair Dman ect... Mrazek and Gus could fight for the job with better D in front of them and we would free up a little cash at the goal position for the short term.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I haven't posted in a while but I was thinking...
Why not trade Howard?
He has good value. He has a cap friendly deal. I would think he could be part of a package for a young top pair Dman ect... Mrazek and Gus could fight for the job with better D in front of them and we would free up a little cash at the goal position for the short term.

A trade like that could potentially jeopardize the playoff streak. Never happening.

I have no problem with trading Howard. He can only win a cup on a great team. His value is pretty worthless on a mediocre team.

 

[Actual Thought*]

A trade like that could potentially jeopardize the playoff streak. Never happening.

I agree that it probably won't happen but...What could he fetch? How high are the Wings on Mrazek?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I agree that it probably won't happen but...What could he fetch? How high are the Wings on Mrazek?

Not high enough to let him be the backup goalie.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Not high enough to let him be the backup goalie.

Or high to the point that they don't want him to be the backup goalie.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Not high enough to let him be the backup goalie.

I think they want him to play. By all acounts the kid is not a back up goaltender. If Howard were no longer part of the equation and their D was significantly improved they might be more inclined to let him fight for the job. I am not a Howard hater. I think we could win with him. I just think if Mrazek is as good as he appears to be then Howard has very high trade value.

 

[SoupNazi]

Not high enough to let him be the backup goalie.

Because they want him to get another year in the AHL. And, you know, get some playing time.

That's why they want Gustavsson to only take a one-year deal, so that Mrazek can come up next year.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Holland could have fore shadowed for this (and im a holland supporter). But did nothing knowing we'd lose Lidstrom soon and already did Rafalski. His plan was taking a swing at Suter/Weber and struck out.

The ideal situation would have been for him to make another move (or series of moves) to make a replacement happen. He didn't, so now a guy like Campbell is a much more enticing player based on our current team needs.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Another year of AHL time. Oh boy!!!!!!!!!! Maybe the Griffins can win a second Calder Cup in three years.

Why not two more years of AHL time?

When do you reach the point where twice as many AHL games no longer provide enough value towards player development over 25 NHL games?

If he is NHL ready, put him in the NHL.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Or high to the point that they don't want him to be the backup goalie.

Agreed. Based on what you hear he isn't going to wait around for Howard to retire. I don't see how we can keep both. I can't see Mrazek being happy staying in the AHL another year and then coming up to be Howard's back-up.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Another year of AHL time. Oh boy!!!!!!!!!! Maybe the Griffins can win a second Calder Cup in three years.

Why not two more years of AHL time?

When do you reach the point where twice as many AHL games no longer provide enough value towards player development over 25 NHL games?

If he is NHL ready, put him in the NHL.

Agreed. Which is why Howard should be trade bait.

 

[Claypool]

If he is NHL ready, put him in the NHL.

Mrazek is not NHL ready.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Agreed. Which is why Howard should be trade bait.

Why shop a starting goaltender when your "replacement" has a miniscule amount of NHL experience under his belt?

Mrazek is being propped up right now on his potential alone, and not on evidence of his ability to be a consistent NHL starter.

Mrazek should get NHL time now, but not as a starter. Let him back up Howard and see how he progresses from there.

 

[PullHard]

I don't get the resistance to seeing Mrazek in the AHL for another year. It seems contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. You've got two good goalies, one is getting closer towards the end of his career, probably 5 or 6 good years left, and the other is young and is looking at having a good 15 year pro career, but is still eligible to start on your minor league team. The older one is fairly accomplished, has shown he can be a legit starter in the league, while the younger one has had a few tastes of big league action and had varying results. Another year isn't going to be the difference between winning or losing the cup, and means our young guy gets more starts. He isn't a skater who could play sheltered minutes against teams weakest competition for ~10:00 a night in the NHL, he'd have to play entire 60 minute games, although choosing a weaker opponent is still possible. Just doesn't really make as much sense to me.

 

[Actual Thought*]

Why shop a starting goaltender when your "replacement" has a miniscule amount of NHL experience under his belt?

Mrazek is being propped up right now on his potential alone, and not on evidence of his ability to be a consistent NHL starter.

Mrazek should get NHL time now, but not as a starter. Let him back up Howard and see how he progresses from there.

I don't think we are winning a cup this year or in the next few years unless we make some bold moves. I would argue that we are banking on Howard's "potential" at this point since we really don't know if he has what it takes to win a cup. Mrazek has built a pretty strong resume. If we are rebuilding and getting younger then I think Howard is a logical trade option.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

What does he have to learn in the AHL? I'd rather start him as a backup and try to steal the starting job now instead of later.

 

[PullHard]

What does he have to learn in the AHL? I'd rather start him as a backup and try to steal the starting job now instead of later.

The first thing that comes to mind is timing out salary cap/ contract issues and preventing a Vancouver/ Luongo and Schneider (but lesser scale) kind of situation from a management perspective.