Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Summer League Extravaganza

[Sidney the Kidney]

Who could we even get for McCann in a 1 for 1 trade with similar age (22-25)?

I still think McCann brings value to the Pens, as well as versatility. But man, I'm having trouble trying to figure out who he'd really mesh with long-term on this roster. He's almost Brandon Sutter-esque in that he's almost best as a "one man show" for his offense, combined with solid positional defense.

 

[Peat]

I still think McCann brings value to the Pens, as well as versatility. But man, I'm having trouble trying to figure out who he'd really mesh with long-term on this roster. He's almost Brandon Sutter-esque in that he's almost best as a "one man show" for his offense, combined with solid positional defense.

Hornqvist. They've got a 250 minute sample of solid results and it makes sense because Hornqvist needs a puck transporter and sniper, and McCann needs someone who'll go to the dirty areas and cause chaos for him to live off. Ideally the third member of the line is less Marleau, who basically splits the difference between them, and more like one of the Dominiks - a winger who'll line up the shots for them - and it's a shame we don't have them this post-season, but long term a player like that can be found for the line.

But McCann-Hornqvist is a solid foundation.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm suddenly doubtful you can get Simon for $1 million after seeing this Milano extension. If Simon is falling somewhere close to this, I'm definitely moving him and re-signing Sheary. Here is how Simon and Milano compare in the last 3 years:

Simon: 62 points in 168 games in NHL, 17 points in 21 AHL games
Milano: 46 points in 118 games in NHL, 29 points in 36 AHL games

This extension for Milano is also all RFA years, Simon only has 1 RFA year left.

 

[Peat]

I'm suddenly doubtful you can get Simon for $1 million after seeing this Milano extension. If Simon is falling somewhere close to this, I'm definitely moving him and re-signing Sheary. Here is how Simon and Milano compare in the last 3 years:

Simon: 62 points in 168 games in NHL, 17 points in 21 AHL games
Milano: 46 points in 118 games in NHL, 29 points in 36 AHL games

This extension for Milano is also all RFA years, Simon only has 1 RFA year left.

It's up to Rutherford. I think he can definitely be ruthless with Simon... but if he's not going to, then yeah, Simon's getting somewhere between 1.5m and 2m, which is a different conversation (even if I think I prefer Simon to Sheary).

You sure about 1 RFA year left btw? He's 25 with an August birthday, so I think he'd only be 26 next contract expiration day, so still RFA?

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's up to Rutherford. I think he can definitely be ruthless with Simon... but if he's not going to, then yeah, Simon's getting somewhere between 1.5m and 2m, which is a different conversation (even if I think I prefer Simon to Sheary).

You sure about 1 RFA year left btw? He's 25 with an August birthday, so I think he'd only be 26 next contract expiration day, so still RFA?

Yeah you're right on that, it would be a 2 year RFA deal. The whole return to play has screwed with my timing of the season, I saw that he turns 26 soon so I thought "oh, so he'll be 27 when next year ends"

If Simon falls in that price range, I'd rather flip him for a 3rd/4th and re-sign Sheary. Not only do I think Sheary has looked really good with the Penguins so far, but I'd bet he'd be willing to sign for below market value to stay in Pittsburgh. I can see a 3 year deal at $2.5 million AAV being good for Sheary, I think him getting term and staying in Pittsburgh would be a positive.

 

[Peat]

Yeah you're right on that, it would be a 2 year RFA deal. The whole return to play has screwed with my timing of the season, I saw that he turns 26 soon so I thought "oh, so he'll be 27 when next year ends"

If Simon falls in that price range, I'd rather flip him for a 3rd/4th and re-sign Sheary. Not only do I think Sheary has looked really good with the Penguins so far, but I'd bet he'd be willing to sign for below market value to stay in Pittsburgh. I can see a 3 year deal at $2.5 million AAV being good for Sheary, I think him getting term and staying in Pittsburgh would be a positive.

Yeah, I can see the logic there. Some reason I think you can browbeat Simon into signing cheap too Tbh, if they agree with it and the cap is there, sign both and move Simon if Poulin makes it (or even just keep him as 13th forward for max smug mode when the injuries come).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Hornqvist. They've got a 250 minute sample of solid results and it makes sense because Hornqvist needs a puck transporter and sniper, and McCann needs someone who'll go to the dirty areas and cause chaos for him to live off. Ideally the third member of the line is less Marleau, who basically splits the difference between them, and more like one of the Dominiks - a winger who'll line up the shots for them - and it's a shame we don't have them this post-season, but long term a player like that can be found for the line.

But McCann-Hornqvist is a solid foundation.

Problem with McCann/Hornqvist as a duo is neither are good at passing. Ideally I think two players have to mesh styles and I'm not certain a tunnel-vision shooter and a tunnel-vision crash the net player are that, not without as you said a puck distributor as the third member.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Problem with McCann/Hornqvist as a duo is neither are good at passing. Ideally I think two players have to mesh styles and I'm not certain a tunnel-vision shooter and a tunnel-vision crash the net player are that, not without as you said a puck distributor as the third member.

Idk I feel like Sheary is at least a decent puck distributor.

 

[KIRK]

My first choice is still to trade Murray, since he's a guy that I think can bring back a solid return and Jarry's a fine starter. But, if keeping Murray forces one or both of JJ and Bjugs to be dealt, I can definitely deal with that.

As for McCann, I still have faith that he'll have a Rust-like emergence, though it may not happen for a couple years. He just turned 24. I also like him on the wing more than at center. It basically comes down to whether or not you think he's worth the investment in potential. Even as a big McCann fan, I'm not too sure. Though I do think moving on from him weakens an already iffy 3rd line.

I anticipate that JR is going to deal Bjugstad regardless of what he does with Murray.

I anticipate that he's going to keep JJ regardless of what he does with Murray, although I certainly hope otherwise.

And, end of the day, game plan this one out, and the only way I see Murray staying is IF he's VERY, VERY GOOD or better in the playoffs but doesn't try to price himself out of Pittsburgh (if he's borderline good or worse, I think he's gone unless MAYBE he's borderline and doesn't ask for a fortune AND Jarry plays and craps the bed)

 

[KIRK]

I'm suddenly doubtful you can get Simon for $1 million after seeing this Milano extension. If Simon is falling somewhere close to this, I'm definitely moving him and re-signing Sheary. Here is how Simon and Milano compare in the last 3 years:

Simon: 62 points in 168 games in NHL, 17 points in 21 AHL games
Milano: 46 points in 118 games in NHL, 29 points in 36 AHL games

This extension for Milano is also all RFA years, Simon only has 1 RFA year left.

JR ain't paying 1.7M for Simon. Not unless MAYBE he moves Murray and Bjugs AND it's a 1 year deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

JR ain't paying 1.7M for Simon. Not unless MAYBE he moves Murray and Bjugs AND it's a 1 year deal.

Hopefully that means he's moving him then, because there's another comparable that's getting similar money:



Bjork has 34 points in 108 NHL games and had 19 points in 58 games this year. If Simon is going to be falling in this price range, I really hope he's traded.

 

[Fordy]

what did he sigh about?

 

[KIRK]

Hopefully that means he's moving him then, because there's another comparable that's getting similar money:



Bjork has 34 points in 108 NHL games and had 19 points in 58 games this year. If Simon is going to be falling in this price range, I really hope he's traded.

Well, this may be one of the things JR had in mind when he talked about RFA's not being qualified/kept.

 

[66-30-33]

I still think McCann brings value to the Pens, as well as versatility. But man, I'm having trouble trying to figure out who he'd really mesh with long-term on this roster. He's almost Brandon Sutter-esque in that he's almost best as a "one man show" for his offense, combined with solid positional defense.

McCann for Virtanen?

 

[Gurglesons]

McCann for Virtanen?

It’s a good hypothetical but McCann was moved from VAN due to attitude issues.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Virtanen was a guy that had caught my eye before, but then I remembered that McCann was traded from Vancouver in part due to him partying a ton with Virtanen. I'm not sure I'd like to test out if you recombine those two.

Virtanen would be amazing with Crosby, though.

 

[Peat]

JR ain't paying 1.7M for Simon. Not unless MAYBE he moves Murray and Bjugs AND it's a 1 year deal.

Why?

Looking at a Pens roster with just Jarry, Simon, and McCann resigned (2.5, 1.7, 3.5) and no trades out (but no money for Murray). That's 5.5m left for spare forwards and dmen and the back-up goaltender - that seems to line up at the sort of numbers where Rutherford can afford to do it and get the quality he wants elsewhere, but where upgrading on him becomes kinda hard. Move Bjugstad and a lot more options open up but even then, much as I'd like to see him come cheap, he still offers plenty to the line up for 1.7m. Not many scenario where that extra 700k or so over the ELCs is going to boost the line-up more.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why?

Looking at a Pens roster with just Jarry, Simon, and McCann resigned (2.5, 1.7, 3.5) and no trades out (but no money for Murray). That's 5.5m left for spare forwards and dmen and the back-up goaltender - that seems to line up at the sort of numbers where Rutherford can afford to do it and get the quality he wants elsewhere, but where upgrading on him becomes kinda hard. Move Bjugstad and a lot more options open up but even then, much as I'd like to see him come cheap, he still offers plenty to the line up for 1.7m. Not many scenario where that extra 700k or so over the ELCs is going to boost the line-up more.

Yeah I see them likely giving Simon or Rodrigues 1.5-1.7 and moving the other for a 4th or something.

Honestly prefer Rodrigues over Simon though.

 

[KIRK]

Why?

Looking at a Pens roster with just Jarry, Simon, and McCann resigned (2.5, 1.7, 3.5) and no trades out (but no money for Murray). That's 5.5m left for spare forwards and dmen and the back-up goaltender - that seems to line up at the sort of numbers where Rutherford can afford to do it and get the quality he wants elsewhere, but where upgrading on him becomes kinda hard. Move Bjugstad and a lot more options open up but even then, much as I'd like to see him come cheap, he still offers plenty to the line up for 1.7m. Not many scenario where that extra 700k or so over the ELCs is going to boost the line-up more.

I'm not sure that I want to be going backup on the cheap if I'm choosing Jarry and moving Murray. BUT, I think Bjugstad being moved takes care of that.

I'm also not sure what they have planned for the 3rd pairing and what the buyers market will give.

As I said, depending upon how those factors play out, I could MAYBE see the 1.7M for 1 year, as part of a stop gap plan to see when Poulin is ready and how he might fit in, but I can't see a multi year commitment with a flat cap and a guy like Marino (not to mention TB) needing to get paid after next season.

EDIT: I'm not sure that your number for Jarry isn't a little light. He was 20-12-1 with a .921 save percentage and an All Star. I'd think, just due to inflation over the years, that he gets the 3.5M Murray got 4 years ago, and that's assuming he doesn't make a playoffs impact.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure that I want to be going backup on the cheap if I'm choosing Jarry and moving Murray. BUT, I think Bjugstad being moved takes care of that.

I'm also not sure what they have planned for the 3rd pairing and what the buyers market will give.

As I said, depending upon how those factors play out, I could MAYBE see the 1.7M for 1 year, as part of a stop gap plan to see when Poulin is ready and how he might fit in, but I can't see a multi year commitment with a flat cap and a guy like Marino (not to mention TB) needing to get paid after next season.

EDIT: I'm not sure that your number for Jarry isn't a little light. He was 20-12-1 with a .921 save percentage and an All Star. I'd think, just due to inflation over the years, that he gets the 3.5M Murray got 4 years ago, and that's assuming he doesn't make a playoffs impact.

I agree with you if you're going for term, I disagree if you're not. Korpisalo got like $2.5 million AAV on a 2 year deal, with year 1 being $2 million and year 2 being $3 million. I think that's a pretty good basis for what Jarry would get. If you go 1 year, he'll fall in the $2-$2.5 million range. If you go 2 years, he'll be in the $2.5-$3 million range. if you go more term, you'll start running into those Murray contracts.

 

[Peat]

Yeah I see them likely giving Simon or Rodrigues 1.5-1.7 and moving the other for a 4th or something.

Honestly prefer Rodrigues over Simon though.

Not sure you can move Rodrigues if you're asking people to use a 2m QO on a 10 point guy. I know he's been more than that in the past but I don't see teams being willing to gamble on that right now.

And I kinda see why you prefer Rodrigues, but there's some spots in the line up where I think Simon's weird skillset can have a big impact, and I've just not seen that from Rodrigues yet. Fingers crossed I do when the inevitable injuries start.

I'm not sure that I want to be going backup on the cheap if I'm choosing Jarry and moving Murray. BUT, I think Bjugstad being moved takes care of that.

I'm also not sure what they have planned for the 3rd pairing and what the buyers market will give.

As I said, depending upon how those factors play out, I could MAYBE see the 1.7M for 1 year, as part of a stop gap plan to see when Poulin is ready and how he might fit in, but I can't see a multi year commitment with a flat cap and a guy like Marino (not to mention TB) needing to get paid after next season.

EDIT: I'm not sure that your number for Jarry isn't a little light. He was 20-12-1 with a .921 save percentage and an All Star. I'd think, just due to inflation over the years, that he gets the 3.5M Murray got 4 years ago, and that's assuming he doesn't make a playoffs impact.

Jarry's number is a sort of split the difference on what I imagine the RFA years on Korpisalo and Merzilikins to have cost and/or an All Star bump on Saros (who I think might be the best comp). I'm not sure it's right, but I'm not sure he's in a position to get Murray cup winner money either.

edit: I'm also slightly assuming a "Just get me out of jail" deal. If Rutherford wants more years than 2, the money goes up.

I can see this idea leaving them a little light at 3rd pairing/back-up compared to where they'd like to be, but they could live. They could live without Simon too, but it's a minimal saving for a guy who still has a use and I think it'd be a pretty unusual responsibility load for them to go do or die on Poulin on Sidney's wing from the get go. Not even Marino got that sort of load immediately. Someone's got to be ready to go with Sid if Poulin can't claim it immediately and Simon will be the lowest bidder. If you get a bit more money floating around, maybe you feel Sheary's an upgrade (not sure I do).

I'm still trying to work out a low impact Bjugstad for D move that makes sense but can't, so maybe it's not there. But maybe Bjugstad for Reimer (okay, I can hear Canes fans laughing now), that adds 700k to the pot, if you've got 6.2m to work with handing 2.5m or so of it to TVR works for the bottom pairing, remaining 3.5m is very comfy for the last depth players.

Finally - I sort of game planned the expansion draft in my head, and my guess is that unless we are offering them a prime goalie, it's Blueger or Tanev going, so either Blueger doesn't get paid here or Tanev opens up a bit of breathing room (although obviously someone else needs to go).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I agree with you if you're going for term, I disagree if you're not. Korpisalo got like $2.5 million AAV on a 2 year deal, with year 1 being $2 million and year 2 being $3 million. I think that's a pretty good basis for what Jarry would get. If you go 1 year, he'll fall in the $2-$2.5 million range. If you go 2 years, he'll be in the $2.5-$3 million range. if you go more term, you'll start running into those Murray contracts.

I don't see Jarry and the Pens going for a long term deal right away, they'll do a 2yr show me at a fair cap hit. Unless Jarry wins the cup, that is.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Hopefully that means he's moving him then, because there's another comparable that's getting similar money:



Bjork has 34 points in 108 NHL games and had 19 points in 58 games this year. If Simon is going to be falling in this price range, I really hope he's traded.

Trade Simon?

 

[MayorofWBS]

It’s a good hypothetical but McCann was moved from VAN due to attitude issues.

Virtanen was a guy that had caught my eye before, but then I remembered that McCann was traded from Vancouver in part due to him partying a ton with Virtanen. I'm not sure I'd like to test out if you recombine those two.

Virtanen would be amazing with Crosby, though.

Isn't Virtanen in the doghouse again this season for showing up in poor condition? I thought he was 2 for 2 with season opening and season restart 5th line demotions for having a beer gut that he needs to work off.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s a good hypothetical but McCann was moved from VAN due to attitude issues.

And yet, they love their shitty attitude players.

I mentioned wanting Virtanen for a few years now, when Pouliot was dealt, I was annoyed it wasn't for Virtanen.

That ship has sailed.