Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap: Summer League Extravaganza

[Peat]

Would you do Poulin for Virtanen straight up if you could sign Virtanen to a reasonable long term deal? I'm really unsure on that when I'm trying to think about it right now, because the upside of a Guentzel-Crosby-Virtanen line is downright insane but there is definitely risks of making that trade.

I don't think the two have vastly different potentials, I think Virtanen's upside is similar to Poulin's and Virtanen's current ability is a safe guess for what Poulin ends up. But Virtanen is like 5 years older and will cost more. I think Virtanen could be a 50 point power forward that skates really well with Crosby and Guentzel, but if Virtanen doesn't mesh with Crosby, you've kinda screwed unless you move Hornqvist. Poulin doesn't have that risk since he also plays LW.

I think Poulin for Virtanen would be similar to Poulin for Kapanen, and I'd be equally as unsure on that trade

No f***ing way with those attitude red flags. And that's the less outraged version. Like, in terms of pure talent and ready now vs sweet cheap ELC years there's a conversation, but there's no way I want him on this team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No f***ing way with those attitude red flags. And that's the less outraged version. Like, in terms of pure talent and ready now vs sweet cheap ELC years there's a conversation, but there's no way I want him on this team.

Attitude red flags aren't a huge concern in my eyes. Like sure, I'd love for every player on the Penguins to be like Crosby, but I know that's not realistic. As long as it's not negative impacting play, I don't have a problem with it.

Now coaching staffs obviously don't agree with that, I think this staff hated Pouliot for similar things as what I've read about Virtanen (general douchey attitude and questions about work ethic). But personally, I don't care about that stuff much unless there's a negative on-ice result because of it.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Yeah, no to Virtanen. The talent is not worth the headache.

 

[Peat]

Attitude red flags aren't a huge concern in my eyes. Like sure, I'd love for every player on the Penguins to be like Crosby, but I know that's not realistic. As long as it's not negative impacting play, I don't have a problem with it.

Now coaching staffs obviously don't agree with that, I think this staff hated Pouliot for similar things as what I've read about Virtanen (general douchey attitude and questions about work ethic). But personally, I don't care about that stuff much unless there's a negative on-ice result because of it.

Repeatedly turning up to camp unfit does seem like an on-ice result to me. You've also got to consider that since Sully will hate this player, even if you don't, he's not playing with Sid (particularly if Sid hates him too), so regardless of whether you think he'd work with Sid and worry about him elsewhere, he wouldn't get a go with Sid and would be elsewhere.

But beyond that, I still don't want to do it. Last season fell apart partly due to locker room stuff getting onto the ice. One guy shouldn't be an issue but I still don't want to take that risk, even if it's a tiny risk. There's a bunch of guys in the NHL who have his general impact - even if not in his physical style - and most of them don't have that risk.

 

[Gurglesons]

Attitude red flags aren't a huge concern in my eyes. Like sure, I'd love for every player on the Penguins to be like Crosby, but I know that's not realistic. As long as it's not negative impacting play, I don't have a problem with it.

Now coaching staffs obviously don't agree with that, I think this staff hated Pouliot for similar things as what I've read about Virtanen (general douchey attitude and questions about work ethic). But personally, I don't care about that stuff much unless there's a negative on-ice result because of it.

Poulin for Virtanen is not a move I’d make at all. Poulin has way more potential and Virtanen is a buy low candidate you hope finds a new place here. Simon + a pick (2nd or 3rd) for Virtanen is more what I would think.

 

[The Old Master]

[QUO in the ex=draftTE="Empoleon8771, post: 172692570, member: 257639"]Would you do Poulin for Virtanen straight up if you could sign Virtanen to a reasonable long term deal? [/QUOTE]
while virtanen is more ready now, he would also need protected in the expan. draft. i'll just keep what we have in pou and keep someone else on the list.

 

[The Old Master]

No f***ing way with those attitude red flags. And that's the less outraged version. Like, in terms of pure talent and ready now vs sweet cheap ELC years there's a conversation, but there's no way I want him on this team.

we made kessel work for a time. the kids is younger and might be a little easer to control.

 

[Peat]

we made kessel work for a time. the kids is younger and might be a little easer to control.

Kessel was a special game-changing talent. Virtanen is a bit of a question mark without knowing whether he can sustain the breakout, but his best almost definitely isn't Kessel. Even if the gamble on them as locker room guys is the same - which I am not sure about as I never heard of Kessel rolling up to Penguins pre-season unfit - I just don't see the need to gamble on that calibre of player.

 

[The Old Master]

Kessel was a special game-changing talent. Virtanen is a bit of a question mark without knowing whether he can sustain the breakout, but his best almost definitely isn't Kessel. I just don't see the need to gamble on that calibre of player.

good point! but if the cost is right it would still be worth the gambel...you don't have to keep him.
edit; kessel being older was more set in his ways and you weren't going to change him. with this kid there is still a chance.

 

[Peat]

good point! but if the cost is right it would still be worth the gambel...you don't have to keep him.

What's the right price then? I'm not against a gamble on the right guy per se, but his arbitration case is good for 3m+ so it's going to be a decent sized price in terms of cap space, and I don't know what Vancouver's valuation is but I doubt it's for nothing.

 

[The Old Master]

What's the right price then? I'm not against a gamble on the right guy per se, but his arbitration case is good for 3m+ so it's going to be a decent sized price in terms of cap space, and I don't know what Vancouver's valuation is but I doubt it's for nothing.

if he's left unprotected i think he would be very likely to go. as for the price????????

 

[Peat]

if he's left unprotected i think he would be very likely to go. as for the price????????

Sorry, not following - do you mean if he isn't given his QO there?

 

[Gurglesons]

good point! but if the cost is right it would still be worth the gambel...you don't have to keep him.
edit; kessel being older was more set in his ways and you weren't going to change him. with this kid there is still a chance.

We can likely get a far better player than Virtanen for Poulin if we package some picks with him. Why settle for Virtanen when you could get a RW Zucker?

 

[KIRK]

Leave Poulin alone!

You can do better than that!

How about LEAVE MY POULIY ALONE at least?

 

[The Old Master]

Sorry, not following - do you mean if he isn't given his QO there?

sorry my fault. i was thinking about the expan. draft. i do need to reread my post now and then.

 

[The Old Master]

We can likely get a far better player than Virtanen for Poulin if we package some picks with him. Why settle for Virtanen when you could get a RW Zucker?

i was in no way referring to a pou for virt trade.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

i was in no way referring to a pou for virt trade.

If JR trades Poulin for Virtanen, I will personally fly over and kick him in the bollocks and then order Chinese take out and then kick him in the bollocks again just for good measure.

 

[KIRK]

If JR trades Poulin for Virtanen, I will personally fly over and kick him in the bollocks and then order Chinese take out and then kick him in the bollocks again just for good measure.

Will you make him watch you eat the Chinese food before or after the second kick to the bullocks?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Will you make him watch you eat the Chinese food before or after the second kick to the bullocks?

Before I open the fortune cookie, I shall read my fortune whilst the punt to his grunt.

 

[Peat]

Will you make him watch you eat the Chinese food before or after the second kick to the bullocks?

Pretty ballsy move to order eat Chinese food in front of him and not give any. Who knows how much berserk rage an old man can muster if provoked sorely enough?

 

[MayorofWBS]

No to Virtanen for Poulin. Like others said - Simon + 3rd maybe?

Virtanen had extremely sheltered minutes last year. Its fairly obvious he's not trusted on the ice. DZ starts were no bueno. To say his defensive game needs some work is an understatement. Still with age, potential and price, the only way Vancouver decides to put him on the market is the point where he's lost the trust both on and off the ice. He may have done that. You hear the grumbling that both the coaches and now teammates are tired of all the babysitting that is needed only for him to show up bloated, not ready to play repeatedly.

I wouldn't say that I would never want him on the Penguins. I just would not want to pay a premium for him. Getting him away from his hometown of Vancouver, away from his boys, the hanger-ons, etc. might be the shake up he needs. Or he could just repeat the cycle in a new city...

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I wonder what Sami Vatanen's plans are as I don't believe Carolina has room to re-sign him. The Pens won't have room to sign him unless a number of moves happen, but I'd sure have interest.

With the flat cap and the upcoming expansion draft, I expect a lot of the FA signings to be for one or two years.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Poulin for Virtanen is not a move I’d make at all. Poulin has way more potential and Virtanen is a buy low candidate you hope finds a new place here. Simon + a pick (2nd or 3rd) for Virtanen is more what I would think.

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that a Virtanen trade would be more like Simon and a 2nd, but I don't agree that Poulin has "way more potential" than Virtanen and I'm one of Poulin's biggest proponents on here.

I think Poulin's upside is similar to peak Saad, a 50 point all-around player who can get that kind of production at primarily ES. I feel like Virtanen's offensive upside is very similar (25-25 guy, mostly at ES) with Poulin's defensive game replaced with Virtanen's speed and physicality. I don't think Virtanen is a "buy low" candidate, I think he's a young guy that may be available for futures due to a cap crunch (because Benning hands out bad contracts regularly).

I think a lot of teams would beat the Penguins on that offer. I view Virtanen to be on the same level as Kapanen, who I could also see being a cap casualty this year for Toronto. I think a team would offer either a 1st rounder or a 1st round caliber prospect for either of them. If you want to keep Poulin, it may be worth offering the Penguins 2021 1st for Virtanen or Kapanen instead.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wonder what Sami Vatanen's plans are as I don't believe Carolina has room to re-sign him. The Pens won't have room to sign him unless a number of moves happen, but I'd sure have interest.

With the flat cap and the upcoming expansion draft, I expect a lot of the FA signings to be for one or two years.

Probably 4-5 mil. Can't afford it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that a Virtanen trade would be more like Simon and a 2nd, but I don't agree that Poulin has "way more potential" than Virtanen and I'm one of Poulin's biggest proponents on here.

I think Poulin's upside is similar to peak Saad, a 50 point all-around player who can get that kind of production at primarily ES. I feel like Virtanen's offensive upside is very similar (25-25 guy, mostly at ES) with Poulin's defensive game replaced with Virtanen's speed and physicality. I don't think Virtanen is a "buy low" candidate, I think he's a young guy that may be available for futures due to a cap crunch (because Benning hands out bad contracts regularly).

I think a lot of teams would beat the Penguins on that offer. I view Virtanen to be on the same level as Kapanen, who I could also see being a cap casualty this year for Toronto. I think a team would offer either a 1st rounder or a 1st round caliber prospect for either of them.

Do you watch the Canucks regularly? Virtanen struggles a ton. He is very similar to Simon in that he goes through stretches and then completely disappears for weeks. He's also regularly been a 20ish point player until he got PP time this year which boosted his numbers.

I was onboard for a Hornqvist + for Virtanen trade last summer. I don't think this summer has done anything for his value though and I would seriously be pissed if we moved a player like Poulin for him. Their comparable dominance in juniors is not very similar unless you highly weigh the WHL over the Q.