Peter Holland

[bonjovi0308]

Seriously some of you have ruined this thread by discussing players other than Peter himself. Show some respect to Holland!

 

[CellarDweller0]

Haha if you're serious, thanks! I just get really frustrated with the group that thinks Bozak is better than Kadri

This wasn't about Bozak vs. Kadri. My reply was to your comment that "Smith would put up similar totals (as Bozak)" which I disagree with.

 

[bunjay]

Holland looks to be ready for his NHL career. He's got size and skill and he understands his defensive responsibilities well. If his confidence continues to grow -- and why wouldn't it? -- we may end up with an emergency replacement who's better than Bozak. He's made himself impossible to send down unless he starts going through a serious cold streak.

 

[Hero]

4 goals and 6 points in 12 game has not made him impossible to send down.

Before Sat he had 2 goals and 3 points in 12 games.


I'm hoping he develops to and I like the guy, but we're jumping the gun

 

[SprDaVE]

4 goals and 6 points in 12 game has not made him impossible to send down.

Before Sat he had 2 goals and 3 points in 12 games.


I'm hoping he develops to and I like the guy, but we're jumping the gun

When he gets the actual minutes and placed in a role where it suits his skillset, he's always noticeable (in a good way). Points or no points.

I'm not sure why Carlyle thought putting him in a bottom role would be advantageous to him and the team. He's clearly skilled and seems to play much better in a top 6 role. He's not perfect by any means but a far better option than Smith.

If Holland keeps impressing in the next couple weeks, I just hope to god Carlyle doesn't throw Bozak in the top 6 again. Let him gain his icetime back after missing over 2 months of hockey.

 

[bunjay]

4 goals and 6 points in 12 game has not made him impossible to send down.

Before Sat he had 2 goals and 3 points in 12 games.


I'm hoping he develops to and I like the guy, but we're jumping the gun

4 goals and 6 points while being defensively responsible and playing well with anybody they put him out with has made him impossible to send down. He's got skill with the puck, he can finish, he has a strong game along the boards.

He's putting up a better point pace than Clarkson, Kulemin, or McClement (as well as any of our other AHL callups) as a rookie averaging 11 minutes/game.

 

[Johny Drama]

4 goals and 6 points in 12 game has not made him impossible to send down.

Before Sat he had 2 goals and 3 points in 12 games.


I'm hoping he develops to and I like the guy, but we're jumping the gun

All while playing about 6-7 minutes a night. Even with limited ice time and not playing with skilled players, I thought he's looked noticeable. Sat night he plays with Lupul and Raymond and he was arguably the best player on the ice against the best team in the NHL. Really interested to see how he looks tonight.

 

[bonjovi0308]

4 goals and 6 points in 12 game has not made him impossible to send down.

Before Sat he had 2 goals and 3 points in 12 games.


I'm hoping he develops to and I like the guy, but we're jumping the gun

I wonder how many pts Kessel can get while playing just 5 mins per game?

 

[King85Kong]

He is looking like a solid centre, with the ability to play both ends of the rink. Looks like we may have stolen another trade with Anaheim. We should trade with them as much as possible.

 

[7even]

4 goals and 6 points in 12 game has not made him impossible to send down.

Before Sat he had 2 goals and 3 points in 12 games.


I'm hoping he develops to and I like the guy, but we're jumping the gun

Agreed. His shot is NHL calibre, but he needs to be smarter out there. And Randy seems allergic to playing him decent minutes half the time, despite being down two centres. If that continues, he better be sent down. Trading a 2nd for a guy to play 8-12 minutes a night is awful asset management.

Nonis is really starting to burn me with how he's throwing away 2nds like nothing

 

[Silver91]

Honestly think that when we're all healed up and healthy, he needs to stay up

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Raymond - Kadri - Lupul
Holland - Bolland - Clarkson
D'Amigo - McClemment - Kulemin
McLaren - Smith - Orr


Lets us roll 4 lines who can actually play without fearing for out lives out there, and I think puts Holland in a position to succeed with players who can make room for him.

 

[Erndog]

Trading a 2nd for a guy to play 8-12 minutes a night is awful asset management.

Nonis is really starting to burn me with how he's throwing away 2nds like nothing

I don't know.

If we drafted a guy, who's got good size, a great shot, scores at a .50 PPG clip with potential for more with our 2nd round pick I'd gladly take it.

 

[bunjay]

Agreed. His shot is NHL calibre, but he needs to be smarter out there. And Randy seems allergic to playing him decent minutes half the time, despite being down two centres. If that continues, he better be sent down. Trading a 2nd for a guy to play 8-12 minutes a night is awful asset management.

Nonis is really starting to burn me with how he's throwing away 2nds like nothing

Wow. Trading a second for a 15th overall pick who's already developed and NHL ready who plays a position for which you have a desperate need. Bad asset management.

 

[Fogelhund]

There is still much time to determine what kind of a player Holland can become. He has exceeded what I thought we would be getting already though...

We absolutely needed to pick up a C from somewhere, with our injury and cap situation. At the minimum it has been a decent short-term solution.

At the current time, he is the leader in Points per minute of ice time for all Leafs C's this year. Interesting enough, Kadri is second, followed by Bolland, Smith and then Bozak.

 

[ponder]

I'm very happy with Holland for 2nd/Blacker, I don't see why people are ripping on this deal at all. The kid is a 6'2" centre with skill and speed who uses his size decently, who looks like a surefire NHLer, with a solid shot at becoming a top 6 player. He's just 22, from the same draft as Kadri, it's not like he's hit his peak yet. The odd players become quality NHLers when they're 18-20, but most guys won't start to really stick in the league and make a difference ~21-24. 22 is still very young.

 

[Mikeyg]

Yeah and if he would produce similar numbers in that role to what he's had, I'd probably be quite happy haha, it'd be nice to atleast see how it works once he is back in the line-up, can't hurt for a game or two

He's a 45-60 point guy making 60 point money, its not all that bad

 

[WillNyeTheHockeyGuy]

Holland seems to play well with Lupul and Raymond atm. It'll be a shame that he'll get set down when both Bozak and Bolland come back. I don't think he'll be as effective as a winger and it makes no sense to have him rot on the 4th line.

 

[Joey Hoser]

If you look at his history, he has a development and production curve that very closely resembles Kadri's up until last season. You could argue he just hasn't yet had the same opportunity in the NHL that Naz did.

 

[gabeliscious]

Honestly think that when we're all healed up and healthy, he needs to stay up

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Raymond - Kadri - Lupul
Holland - Bolland - Clarkson
D'Amigo - McClemment - Kulemin
McLaren - Smith - Orr


Lets us roll 4 lines who can actually play without fearing for out lives out there, and I think puts Holland in a position to succeed with players who can make room for him.

i agree with what your saying. i think that i would prefer to switch holland and raymond though. if holland has top 6 upside he should be fine with kadri and lupul. raymond is sort of a tweener, i think he would do better with bolland and clarkson

 

[Wami]

i agree with what your saying. i think that i would prefer to switch holland and raymond though. if holland has top 6 upside he should be fine with kadri and lupul. raymond is sort of a tweener, i think he would do better with bolland and clarkson

See, I saw something different... didn't raymond have 4 assists last game? If you look at the highlights... it seemed like the chemistry was actually between Raymond and Lupul, not Lupul and Holland... Holland was the tap-in benefactor of some great plays between lupul and raymond...

 

[ALEXJD93]

He's a 45-60 point guy making 60 point money, its not all that bad

My whole premise was that he wouldn't be able to put up those numbers without Kessel, but like I said, if he did I would be quite happy

 

[Mikeyg]

My whole premise was that he wouldn't be able to put up those numbers without Kessel, but like I said, if he did I would be quite happy

Arguing QoT is more neutralized by QoC we've been over this already twice

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

yes I certainly do actually, you can not eliminate and avoid 30% of your n value, its just terrible statistical practice. 30% is statistically relevant when you base it on a standard p value of .05

A difference between two biased samples (even strength goals for/against) can still be statistically significant. If you're claiming the difference between Bozak/Kadri/Holland/a pylon's production at even strength is statistically insignificant, you would have to show that it's likely due just to random chance and not any difference in the quality of the players. Choosing to include powerplay production might make the error bars smaller, but that has no bearing on whether the even strength stats are significant or not.

 

[ALEXJD93]

Arguing QoT is more neutralized by QoC we've been over this already twice

The only way we will know for sure is if it actually happens, Bozak has spent his entire career on the first line, would at least be nice to know what he can provide else where

 

[RoadWarrior]

Honestly think that when we're all healed up and healthy, he needs to stay up

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Raymond - Kadri - Lupul
Holland - Bolland - Clarkson
D'Amigo - McClemment - Kulemin
McLaren - Smith - Orr


Lets us roll 4 lines who can actually play without fearing for out lives out there, and I think puts Holland in a position to succeed with players who can make room for him.

Why is Clarkson ahead of Kulemin on your depth chart? Kulemin is a top 9 forward.

Holland and Kulemin> Clarkson so Clarkson should be on the fourth line