Value of: Patrick Kane & Duncan Keith

[Northernhawk]

Chris Chelios was 37 playing in his 16th season, 3 time Norris winner(2 with Chi), won Cup with MTL
Was traded for Anders Eriksson and two 1st rounders(Steve McCarthy and Adam Munro)

Duncan Keith is 37 playing in his 16th season, 2 time Norris winner, Conn Smythe winner, won 3 Cups with CHI
Is there a deal out there to be made similar to Chelios? Does a team acquire Keith to get them a couple of Cups like Chelly did for the Wangs in 2002 and 2008?

 

[Hattrick Kane]

The Hawks are easily able to retain 50% on both of these guys as they don’t have to give anybody significant raises in the next two offseasons.

So Kane @ 5.25 and Keith 2.75 for two more seasons after this season are going to get hauls. And they may even be able to take your short term junk, not your long term junk though, but it’ll cost extra.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Chris Chelios was 37 playing in his 16th season, 3 time Norris winner(2 with Chi), won Cup with MTL
Was traded for Anders Eriksson and two 1st rounders(Steve McCarthy and Adam Munro)

Duncan Keith is 37 playing in his 16th season, 2 time Norris winner, Conn Smythe winner, won 3 Cups with CHI
Is there a deal out there to be made similar to Chelios? Does a team acquire Keith to get them a couple of Cups like Chelly did for the Wanga in 2002 and 2008?

Chelios was also traded with no cap.

The Hawks are easily able to retain 50% on both of these guys as they don’t have to give anybody significant raises in the next two offseasons.

So Kane @ 5.25 and Keith 2.75 for two more seasons after this season are going to get hauls. And they may even be able to take your short term junk, not your long term junk though, but it’ll cost extra.

They also both have full NMC's. How many teams have $5m open? Obviously Kane(or McDavid) can't bring a team anywhere by himself. A lot of 37 year old's out there in the cap era bringing back hauls? Especially when you have to account for them when they're 39?

Sounds like you think Chicago is in the driver's seat here. They're not dictating anything. A little more leverage with Kane as an asset, but the cap is still going to have to work. Other teams might have important contracts in the next two offseasons, etc.

 

[Northernhawk]

Chelios was also traded with no cap.



They also both have full NMC's. How many teams have $5m open? Obviously Kane(or McDavid) can't bring a team anywhere by himself. A lot of 37 year old's out there in the cap era bringing back hauls? Especially when you have to account for them when they're 39?

Sounds like you think Chicago is in the driver's seat here. They're not dictating anything. A little more leverage with Kane as an asset, but the cap is still going to have to work. Other teams might have important contracts in the next two offseasons, etc.

Keith at $5 million isn't a big deal, he'd be a welcome addition say to a Flyers team that's right there, in contention...say for Sanheim, Raffl and 1st? Or say Vancouver for Eriksson and 2 first rounders?

 

[CREW99AW]

Assuming isles can either LTIR Ladd or move Eberle.

NYI 2021 and 2022 1st, COL 2021 and 2022 2nd, Wahlstrom, Bolduc/Wilde

For

Kane @ 50% retained

Isles fill a massive hole in the top 6 and finally get an elite winger to play with Barzal. This trade depletes the isles prospect pool but they’ve had better luck drafting in later rounds with this scouting staff than they have with their first round picks. Patty Kane can finally get the isles in title consideration and be that missing piece that we’ve been looking for

When did this become the wet dream board?

Isles have one of the weakest prospect pools in the league and are facing cap hell again next offseason. Lou tried to move cheaper cap dumps in Hickey/ Uncle Leo,but was unable to,so your suggestion that they simply dump the more expensive Eberle is not very likely.At least without attaching a sweetener Lou has been unwilling to give up. And there is zero indication that Ladd is willing to go on LTIR. He wouldn't this past off-season.

No thanks. Isles don't have the trade chips to be in on this trade.

 

[Northernhawk]

Chelios at 37 playing 16 yrs traded to DET for Anders Eriksson and two first rounders

Keith at 37 playing 16 yrs traded to VAN for Loui Eriksson and two first rounders?

Possible?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Keith at $5 million isn't a big deal, he'd be a welcome addition say to a Flyers team that's right there, in contention...say for Sanheim, Raffl and 1st? Or say Vancouver for Eriksson and 2 first rounders?

In not only a hard cap league, but in a hard cap league where the cap isn't going up any time soon, every cent is a big deal.

 

[um]

Kane has told friends in WNY he'd likeo finish out in Buffalo, or so the talk around Orchard Park goes. And those guys are his childhood chums, so who knows.
I don't think Buffalo wants to give up any top end assets though.

for Kane? Why wouldn’t they?

He’s make Eichel happy and he’d be an instant Sabres legend. Not to mention he’s a pretty good hockey player.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Uh, yeah, that's what I said. But there's no value left over to get something of value.
I've been watching the Sabres, and I don't see that, exactly. But I'm glad you're happy to keep him.

Not a Sabres fan lol

 

[Dynamite Time]

Maple Leafs... come on down

 

[Mrfenn92]

Keith at $5 million isn't a big deal, he'd be a welcome addition say to a Flyers team that's right there, in contention...say for Sanheim, Raffl and 1st? Or say Vancouver for Eriksson and 2 first rounders?

Philly says no easy

 

[Pitter Patter]

Not a Sabres fan lol

Nope, no homer glasses here.
LOL
HAHAHAH
teehee

 

[rinaldo]

Flyers generously offer:
Jake
Ghost
Frostky
German Rubstov
Sam Morin
Rights to Original Gus
Matthew Strome
6th rd pick.

 

[ClydeLee]

I seriously am in need of what the rational has become that so many people think a "proper rebuild" is. They have these players and are still likely to acquire a top 5 pick in earnest.

Somehow, people think having more young assets who all develop together without elite superstar veterans is a recipe for success? Based on... who or what? Like the Hawks kind of got that but they were coming out of a long decade wise back of sucking and had the cap to bring those veteran allstar caliber players in.

Having this topic come up a lot and lots of talks about it and I don't see any examples of success in this so called "proper" way to rebuild, yet people keep acting like that's what you need or are supposed to do.

 

[blankall]

Chelios at 37 playing 16 yrs traded to DET for Anders Eriksson and two first rounders

Keith at 37 playing 16 yrs traded to VAN for Loui Eriksson and two first rounders?

Possible?

Lol...You're much better off leaving Eriksson out of that deal. His negative value is only going to make Vancouver need to add. Two first rounders is a good start IMO though.

 

[blankall]

I seriously am in need of what the rational has become that so many people think a "proper rebuild" is. They have these players and are still likely to acquire a top 5 pick in earnest.

Somehow, people think having more young assets who all develop together without elite superstar veterans is a recipe for success? Based on... who or what? Like the Hawks kind of got that but they were coming out of a long decade wise back of sucking and had the cap to bring those veteran allstar caliber players in.

Having this topic come up a lot and lots of talks about it and I don't see any examples of success in this so called "proper" way to rebuild, yet people keep acting like that's what you need or are supposed to do.

If you're going into a 2+ year rebuild, having 4 extra first rounds and a bunch of prospects is a huge boost.

If you want veteran leadership keep Toews and Seabrook around.

If you think you can be competitive in 2 years, it may make sense to hang onto Kane and Keith. If not, you're just hampering your future team by keeping them around. Not only are you losing out on huge assets but you they'll keep you just competitive enough to not get a top draft pick.

 

[ClydeLee]

If you're going into a 2+ year rebuild, having 4 extra first rounds and a bunch of prospects is a huge boost.

If you want veteran leadership keep Toews and Seabrook around.

If you think you can be competitive in 2 years, it may make sense to hang onto Kane and Keith. If not, you're just hampering your future team by keeping them around. Not only are you losing out on huge assets but you they'll keep you just competitive enough to not get a top draft pick.

I think you're misguided about the last part sentence and the team over the last few years is a case.

But I do not know who this benefits? You day having more assests is a boost? A boost to what? A boost with lots of young talent but to what end? Who has succeeded like this?

Its not a matter of wanting veteran leadership... but elite talent that helps teach those top 3 picks vs a collection of talented picks who usually wind up doing nothing and getting overpriced before they do anything.

 

[Mrfenn92]

It’s all in Keith and Kane’s hands if they want out or not. They’ll control what destination they want, that will control what a team is willing to give up also.
Don’t see either wanting to move in season this year. If they want out it will probably be a offseason move.

 

[blankall]

I think you're misguided about the last part sentence and the team over the last few years is a case.

But I do not know who this benefits? You day having more assests is a boost? A boost to what? A boost with lots of young talent but to what end? Who has succeeded like this?

Its not a matter of wanting veteran leadership... but elite talent that helps teach those top 3 picks vs a collection of talented picks who usually wind up doing nothing and getting overpriced before they do anything.

I was actually stating there's a choice with Chicago. If they think they can do a quick turn around, it may make sense to keep Kane Keith. They certainly have some very good young players in Dach, Kubalik, Debrincat, Boqvist, etc... If the plan is to rebuild, then yes, hanging onto the veteran stars is a waste of resources and can hinder the rebuild.

How is 4 first round picks and some prospects not a boost to a rebuild? This isn't some novel theory I'm coming up with.

 

[ClydeLee]

I was actually stating there's a choice with Chicago. If they think they can do a quick turn around, it may make sense to keep Kane Keith. They certainly have some very good young players in Dach, Kubalik, Debrincat, Boqvist, etc... If the plan is to rebuild, then yes, hanging onto the veteran stars is a waste of resources and can hinder the rebuild.

How is 4 first round picks and some prospects not a boost to a rebuild? This isn't some novel theory I'm coming up with.

Like I said, many people think this is a "proper rebuild" idea and that was the term the op used. But I've seen this and do not get why.

Shouldn't something people call proper and the right way to do a thing, have evidence and examples of it working? Not just lists of failures?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

was always my dream to have Kane on the Rangers but it makes absolutely zero sense now, which is a shame.

 

[Long Live Lyle]

If Jarmo wants to be a madman as he's done so many times before...

PLD for Kane (50% retention). Not sure if someone would have to add or not. (My inclination is Chicago would add, but maybe the retention is considered the "add". Or maybe I'm just off on the value completely.) Would set Chi up for years of a 1-2 punch of Dach-PLD (or vice versa) as Toews gets older/declines/retires. I think it'd be good for Chicago as a "hockey trade" (and I'd even say slightly in Chicago's favor), but I also think Kane is extremely valuable to that franchise way beyond on-ice impact, so perhaps they wouldn't go for it.

On the Columbus side, would be a huge risk, but if you don't like the value you're seeing in the trade market for PLD (e.g., you're getting a lot of meh quantity for quality offers and/or PLD demands to play in a huge city which limits the suitors), Kane would not be a bad option. You're already a playoff team (who struggles to score...), and it makes you even better in the short-term than you were previously. You also could flip Kane at the deadline in his last year if you wish and get a pretty good return (though not as good as the PLD return now, in all likelihood.)

I also semi-doubt Kane would waive for Columbus. But maybe if he wants to go to a playoff team he would. It still puts him a short distance from Chicago and actually about halfway between Chicago and Buffalo. Older players who've settled down with families seem to value Columbus more than younger and/or single players.

 

[Draiskull]

Reality check needed

Chicago will not get in a trade

1 a top 3 team prospect/young player under 23
2. A recent top 10 pick who is under 23
3.1sts traded will be lottery protected

kane’s cap hit means retention needed or cap hit coming back. Nobody has the space to take his salary and is a playoff likely team.

Keith is older and he is not a top oair Dman on a playoff team. I’m not saying he sucks but reality check is needed.

In terms of return

Keith at 50% would get a playoff team 1st, a non playoff team 2nd thst coukd become a 1st + decent but not top 5 prospect + current young secondary roster player. No irliwer retention the young roster players turns into a higher cost player to balance out salary

for Kane the return could be a decent player making $4M+ + 1st, 2nd, 2 good prospects + cap dump going back or retention. The quality sending back coukd affect the other stuff.

Oilers jump in and offer:

1. Bouchard or Broberg
2. Puljujarvi
3. 1st unprotected

+ Neal or Kassian

for Kane with some retention.

 

[blankall]

Like I said, many people think this is a "proper rebuild" idea and that was the term the op used. But I've seen this and do not get why.

Shouldn't something people call proper and the right way to do a thing, have evidence and examples of it working? Not just lists of failures?

I actually agree that the strict tear it down rebuild isn't as great as it used to be, with the new draft rules. However, Chicago is a great example of a tear it down rebuild working. Take a look at their roster in 2005/06, right before they drafted Kane and Toews back to back. Their highest scoring player was Kyle Calder.

 

[Eggtimer]

Same offers as usual , bunch of quantity vs quality .
I’ll play along , Devils offer a pile of prospects they are ok with losing and a 1st .
1st round pick ,Zacha, Boqvist ,Sharangovich , Bratt, Gusev , Palmeri , Johnsson , Bastian , McLeod , Bahl 1st . Giddie up
Aka - anybody but Nico Hughes Smith Blackwood Holtz Mercer