Value of: Patrick Kane & Duncan Keith

[Kaners Bald Spot]

I actually agree that the strict tear it down rebuild isn't as great as it used to be, with the new draft rules. However, Chicago is a great example of a tear it down rebuild working. Take a look at their roster in 2005/06, right before they drafted Kane and Toews back to back. Their highest scoring player was Kyle Calder.

The Hawks had been bad since they traded Roenick and Belfour. They had 3 1st round picks in 2000 and missed on all of them. Ruutu was ok but a 2nd liner at best. It wasn't until they drafted Keith in 2002 and then the haul in the 2003 draft(Seabrook/Crawford/Byfuglien) that they started to turn things around. They drafted complete disappointments in the top 10 in 2004-05 Then, they get lucky and jump from 5 to 1 in 2007 to grab Kane.(though that made up for being the 2nd worst team in 2004 and missing out on Ovi and Malkin) Without that, I think they end up a lot like San Jose or Nashville-solid to really good for a long time, but never win a cup with maybe one finals appearance.

 

[Pitter Patter]

I seriously am in need of what the rational has become that so many people think a "proper rebuild" is. They have these players and are still likely to acquire a top 5 pick in earnest.

Somehow, people think having more young assets who all develop together without elite superstar veterans is a recipe for success? Based on... who or what? Like the Hawks kind of got that but they were coming out of a long decade wise back of sucking and had the cap to bring those veteran allstar caliber players in.

Having this topic come up a lot and lots of talks about it and I don't see any examples of success in this so called "proper" way to rebuild, yet people keep acting like that's what you need or are supposed to do.

Your username is so accurate

 

[Mal Reynolds]

I actually think Chicago is more or less on the right track as is. Getting Dach was a coup, and they have some nice young D well on their way. Kubalik was a nice find, and drafting a kid like Reichel was astute as well. That's just off the top of my head as well, I'm sure there's more to it than that

They haven't exactly been lights out in recent years, even with their current core, so I'm not convinced that it's necessary to have a firesale to truly bottom out. (I realize there were extenuating circumstances there, with Crawford's injury issues, a suspect D, etc etc)

If it were me, maybe make a change from Bowman, sell off guys like Strome and/or Murphy over the next couple years (and any of the vets who decide they'd like to move on). But I wouldn't try and force out anyone (they've earned the right to stay or go as they please), and there's inherent value in their winning pedigree and ability to help insulate & mentor the kids... not everything is just about accumulating *shiny assets* imo

 

[Rick C137]

Didn't CHI get swept in '16-'17, the year you're referring to? "Finishing 1st in the WC in the regular season"...needs perspective.

Swept! They only scored TWO goals, 2 Goals in 4 games iirc.

Correct me if my memory is wrong.

You’re not incorrect but it still doesn’t change anything. It actually doesn’t need perspective at all. They were still first in the west and had one bad series at the time. That would have gone over HORRIBLY in the locker room. The massive market bulls STILL have serious trouble signing free agents Chicago after Krause “prematurely” blew up the bulls in the 90s and that core was way closer to extinction. Current players have even still referenced how the bulls “did mike dirty”. If the core Blackhawks got traded after their first bad season it would have been 100% looked at as premature and respectable players wouldn’t want to play here. There’s a right way to rebuild and a wrong way. Trading Kane then would without a doubt be the wrong way. That’s exactly how you develop and get stuck in losing culture. When you have a special core with a special championship pedigree, you almost have to let it die naturally.

Diddnt even take in to account and he whole business aspect of trading your most marketable face to be intentionally horrible.... and you know the whole NTC aspect. There’s just so many reasons why this would have been a horrid idea at the time that it’s hard to stay in one lane

 

[DatDude44]

Casey Mittelstadt, Brandon Montour, 2022 Unprotected 1st, Kyle Okposo(to make cap work) 2021 2nd(for taking okposo)

for
Patrick Kane

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

You’re not incorrect but it still doesn’t change anything. It actually doesn’t need perspective at all. They were still first in the west and had one bad series at the time. That would have gone over HORRIBLY in the locker room. The massive market bulls STILL have serious trouble signing free agents Chicago after Krause “prematurely” blew up the bulls in the 90s and that core was way closer to extinction. Current players have even still referenced how the bulls “did mike dirty”. If the core Blackhawks got traded after their first bad season it would have been 100% looked at as premature and respectable players wouldn’t want to play here. There’s a right way to rebuild and a wrong way. Trading Kane then would without a doubt be the wrong way. That’s exactly how you develop and get stuck in losing culture. When you have a special core with a special championship pedigree, you almost have to let it die naturally.

Diddnt even take in to account and he whole business aspect of trading your most marketable face to be intentionally horrible.... and you know the whole NTC aspect. There’s just so many reasons why this would have been a horrid idea at the time that it’s hard to stay in one lane

Value of: - Patrick Kane & Duncan Keith

Value of: - Patrick Kane & Duncan Keith

 

[Rick C137]

Value of: - Patrick Kane & Duncan Keith

Value of: - Patrick Kane & Duncan Keith

...okay? I honestly have no idea what point you’re trying to make. His idea absolutely was 100% crazy. Full stop.

 

[Sinbad]

The Hawks are easily able to retain 50% on both of these guys as they don’t have to give anybody significant raises in the next two offseasons.

So Kane @ 5.25 and Keith 2.75 for two more seasons after this season are going to get hauls. And they may even be able to take your short term junk, not your long term junk though, but it’ll cost extra.

Actually I believe the Hawks can only retain on one more contract right now since they have already retained on Saad and Maata.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Nope, no homer glasses here.
LOL
HAHAHAH
teehee

What? I’m a leafs fan....

 

[dlawong]

Heard that he may want to finish his career in Buffalo and has a NMC so good chance is that if Sabres can make a deal to move a big contract out, they may be able to then trade their unprotected 2022 1st round pick , a goalie and top D prospect to Hawks for Kane. Of course Chicago may need to retain some salary for this to work. Does Buffalo has any buyout option left at their disposal?

Detroit will also be another target given the close distance to Buffalo. However will Kane wave to go to a young team without known superstar? As he is American, I think he would like to finish playing in a USA city. Most contender teams have too much cap tied up and likely no room to take him on.

To land Kane, it will take a huge package as he is not a rental and is still one of the best forwards in the NHL. He will draw a lot of interest but the number of his prefer trade destination may be quite small.

 

[thesaadfather]

Honestly, I’d be pretty surprised if Kane was willing to move on from Chicago. He lives there full time and seems to love it, and now that he has a kid it seems less likely.

 

[Mrb1p]

Danault
Gallagher
Guhle
For
Kaner retained
2nd rounder


Yeah?

You get 2/3 of our first line lmao, we get 100% of urs

 

[Mrfenn92]

Danault
Gallagher
Guhle
For
Kaner retained
2nd rounder


Yeah?

You get 2/3 of our first line lmao, we get 100% of urs

No thanks

 

[Mrb1p]

No thanks

Remove the 2nd ? Add in a 2nd on the Habs side ?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Remove the 2nd ? Add in a 2nd on the Habs side ?

Just not a good deal for the hawks. We retain on Kane. Then add Gallagher and his new extension and would need to resign danault going forward and I don’t see him extending Toews and Dach here. Guhle is a good add.
Cap wise just doesn’t work for the hawks.

 

[Mrb1p]

Just not a good deal for the hawks. We retain on Kane. Then add Gallagher and his new extension and would need to resign danault going forward and I don’t see him extending Toews and Dach here. Guhle is a good add.
Cap wise just doesn’t work for the hawks.

Gallagher replaces Kane and gives you a 3 years younger player, albeit very much worse.
Danault gives you safety for Toews or if you were to look to move him and he's the perfect 3C

 

[Mrfenn92]

Gallagher replaces Kane and gives you a 3 years younger player, albeit very much worse.
Danault gives you safety for Toews or if you were to look to move him and he's the perfect 3C

Both are good players no doubt. Habs just gave the extension to gally. Don’t see the hawks having any interest in that deal long term and again danault needs to want to sign a extension probably $5 to $6 million aav. Also the hawks retaining on Kane cap won’t work.
If the hawks are trading kane it’s a full out rebuild, if the hawks were still competitive this deal isn’t bad at all. But they aren’t even competitive now.

 

[Mrb1p]

Both are good players no doubt. Habs just gave the extension to gally. Don’t see the hawks having any interest in that deal long term and again danault needs to want to sign a extension probably $5 to $6 million aav. Also the hawks retaining on Kane cap won’t work.
If the hawks are trading kane it’s a full out rebuild, if the hawks were still competitive this deal isn’t bad at all. But they aren’t even competitive now.

I was thinkin you guys might look for the 1-2 years turnaround with Dach, Cat, Boqvist, Mitchell keeping you guys in there.

 

[Mrfenn92]

I was thinkin you guys might look for the 1-2 years turnaround with Dach, Cat, Boqvist, Mitchell keeping you guys in there.

Still all depends. Young dmen are voodoo when it comes to development time. Still isn’t any option goalie wise which is fine with how far they are off.
2 years is the probable of being able to compete potentially for a playoff spot.
Will have lots of cap room going forward and a probable a top 4 pick this year and another high one the year after.

 

[BarracudaMtl]

Danault
Gallagher
Guhle
For
Kaner retained
2nd rounder


Yeah?

You get 2/3 of our first line lmao, we get 100% of urs

I know kane is a great player ..but replacing Gallagher ( he literally represent what the Habs want) with Evender “Cocktails” Kane???

Don't mess up with my team chemistry please

 

[Mrb1p]

I know kane is a great player ..but replacing Gallagher ( he literally represent what the Habs want) with Evender “Cocktails” Kane???

Don't mess up with my team chemistry please

Its patrick kane.

 

[BarracudaMtl]

Its patrick kane.

ohhh my bad.

Looking at HF while working...not a good mix. Sorry

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

Kane & Keith for Matthews & Rielly

 

[ScaredStreit]

After reading a lot of these proposals I think somebody needs to get a copy of Kane's resume and post it.

 

[wahsnairb]

After reading a lot of these proposals I think somebody needs to get a copy of Kane's resume and post it.

The offers would be tough to accept if the Hawks weren’t retaining on every single one lol.

It’s fine, though. Kane doesn’t get moved unless he wants to be at this point. Don’t see it.