Sportsnet: Patches to NYI, ROR to MTL almost happened @ Draft

[MasterMatt25]

On a side note. Habs fans... do you even want this trade? Buffalo doesn't want Pacioretty because he's either in decline or soon to decline and doesn't fit the Sabres timetable. But Montreal is at least as bad off. ROR is a very VERY good player at a position you desperately need. But he probably only lifts them from Embarrassing to below average. Why not sell of Pacioretty, Weber, Price etc and embrace the rebuild?

Because management won't commit to a rebuild. If they came out and said they want to rebuild (like what Gorton and the Rangers did last year), the Habs community would be on board. But Bergevin never makes known what the plan or direction is so we don't know what he wants to do. If they really still want to push for playoffs, then fine go for ROR. He's just what we need, plus then there's no pressure to rush Poehling or Kotkaniemi. However I still don't think the team is anywhere near good enough to contend for the cup with ROR. First round of playoffs maybe, 2nd round if we're lucky. Highly doubt we'd go any further.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Patches wont resign in Buffalo, pretty sure that's the entire issue at hand.

Patches for 1 year is worth pennies on the dollar

Patches with an extension is worth a lot.

Patches is ultimately in the drivers seat, and that was why the LA deal fell through.

The article said Patches agent is trying to facilitate a trade to a team that will meet his contract demands.
That made it sound like he's willing to go to whatever team is willing to pay him what he wants.

I am pretty sure that is the issue. That and his age.

Randy Sexton (Buffalo's AGM) just gave an interview today and talked about how they are looking for players that will match the young core's age (he listed Jack, Risto, Reinhart and Dahlin who are all late teens, early 20's).

He also specifically said that you will not see them giving out anything over a 3yr deal to any players over the age of 28.

So, if that's the case, Buffalo clearly wouldn't be willing to meet Patches contract demands.
And he doesn't fit the age criteria Sexton listed either.

If Patches was what Buffalo was looking for to be the center piece of a ROR trade, there'd have been no need for the NYI to get involved.


Here's the interview if you want to listen - 06-26 Sabres assistant GM Randy Sexton with Howard and Jeremy

 

[haseoke39]

Seems like Bergevin leaking his fanfic to the press.

 

[CREW99AW]

Canadiens' Bergevin came close to hitting all marks during draft weekend - Sportsnet.ca

Basically the Habs were going to trade Max for one of the 1st rounders from the Islanders, and flip that to Buffalo for ROR, but the Islanders pulled out when they had the options to draft who they did.

Interesting in theory, Sabres fans wanted 3OA but seems like the deal would have been done around a lot less.

I wonder if this is something that still happens in some capacity.

If this is true ( and I hope it isn't), then I can only be glad it fell apatt

 

[MasterMatt25]

Seems like Bergevin leaking his fanfic to the press.

Bergevin doesn't leak. It's like the one thing he's good at.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Still brings me back to my original question, do you even want this trade? Even if it had been just 3 picks (not a chance lol), those are picks that could be part of your future as opposed to a mediocre present.

ROR is only 27 and signed for five more years. He's not just a short term fix, but a great vet we need badly considering our lousy C depth and can still be a valuable piece in the rebuild. I know a lot of Habs fans share your view but I personally don't believe in the idea of blatantly tanking and getting a couple of high picks and then suddenly be in cup contention (how has that worked out for you guys in Buffalo eh?)

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I think RoR's true value lies in helping to ease in Kotkaniemi and Poehling in the future.

Might, keyword is might help to sign Stastny, so K or P can play 3rd line minutes. Next season move the 1 who played 3rd line minutes to 2nd line C with Stastny as a winger and the other to 3rd line centre and then go from there.

Kotkaniemi and Poehling aren't high end centres by any means at this point. Kotkaniemi might become a really good centre, but he'll need someone to learn from and to help shelter him when he comes into the league.

 

[MasterMatt25]

I think RoR's true value lies in helping to ease in Kotkaniemi and Poehling in the future.

Might, keyword is might help to sign Stastny, so K or P can play 3rd line minutes. Next season move the 1 who played 3rd line minutes to 2nd line C with Stastny as a winger and the other to 3rd line centre and then go from there.

Kotkaniemi and Poehling aren't high end centres by any means at this point. Kotkaniemi might become a really good centre, but he'll need someone to learn from and to help shelter him when he comes into the league.

Kotkaniemi and Poehling are 17 and 19 years old. They are definitely not top end centers right now.

 

[normaliswear]

ROR is only 27 and signed for five more years. He's not just a short term fix, but a great vet we need badly considering our lousy C depth and can still be a valuable piece in the rebuild. I know a lot of Habs fans share your view but I personally don't believe in the idea of blatantly tanking and getting a couple of high picks and then suddenly be in cup contention (how has that worked out for you guys in Buffalo eh?)

I dunno... honestly would much rather be where Buffalo is with our core being 21, 18, 19, 22, and 23. But so far, it's just great on paper and will probably be at least a couple years until it's great on the ice.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Kotkaniemi and Poehling are 17 and 19 years old. They are definitely not top end centers right now.

No, but you know they're going to more than likely be rushed.

Poehling projects to be a lesser RoR and Kotkaniemi has potential to be a good number 1, but will likely end up a lower end number 1, which is still good and much better than anything we've had, but again, don't want to rush him and force him to be a top line centre when he's 19/20..

 

[boredmale]

I said this earlier but why wouldn't the Islanders just trade for ROR if their pick would be a centerpiece in a deal. Unlike Patches ROR fills a huge need for the Islanders in the sense he kills penalties and can win faceoffs, he makes a great insurance policy if Tavares signs elsewhere, and if we sign Tavares all of a sudden the Islanders have the best center depth in the league(with the exception of the Penguins)

 

[Spectra]

Phew, glad that didn't happen for NYI! They should, in the case this isn't just bs, have made that trade for RoR themselves instead. He is a superior player to Pacioretty and fills more of a need than yet another LW.

 

[boredmale]

Phew, glad that didn't happen for NYI! They should, in the case this isn't just bs, have made that trade for RoR themselves instead. He is a superior player to Pacioretty and fills more of a need than yet another LW.

I always say you can never have to many centers or defensemen, but you can have to many left wings

 

[Hostile Offer]

I dunno... honestly would much rather be where Buffalo is with our core being 21, 18, 19, 22, and 23. But so far, it's just great on paper and will probably be at least a couple years until it's great on the ice.

The core is good on paper but after years of losing, it seems like a toxic environment to play. You've seen how hard it is to turn the ship around when you haven't had a competitive team for a while.

 

[jfhabs]

Completely fine... Buffalo keeps him or looks for a trade partner elsewhere.

If that's the kind of return you are looking for, they won't find a trade partner on planet earth

 

[normaliswear]

The core is good on paper but after years of losing, it seems like a toxic environment to play. You've seen how hard it is to turn the ship around when you haven't had a competitive team for a while.

Ehhh I think that stuff is highly overrated when compared to talent. The sabres were awful last year because they were back in 2014. They were awful because Beaulieu, Falk, Jacobson, Etc etc were regulars on the ice. The pens were so bad they picked in the top few picks for several years in a row. And when Crosby and Malkin came in suddenly their "culture" got loads better.

 

[normaliswear]

If that's the kind of return you are looking for, they won't find a trade partner on planet earth

Oh no... we could be forced to keep one of the top 20 centers in hockey for another year of his prime???? Whatever shall we do? Lol

 

[AvatarAang]

Completely fine... Buffalo keeps him or looks for a trade partner elsewhere.

Hmm...where did I hear that line agian? Oh yea every time someone gets butthurt that no one is overvaluing a player that is rumored to be available from your team.

I guess I just need to be a homer if I'm going to understand this mentality. Like it makes absolutely no sense...Sabres fans are all basically like "Either we get an overpayment or we keep him"...because that's how trading works, whoever picks up the phone first loses the deal right?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

I wonder if Detroit would have taken Dobson if the Habs took Zadina.

Maybe Isles would have done it and the Habs could have walked away with ROR and Zadina...

 

[ohmyjlord]

I said this earlier but why wouldn't the Islanders just trade for ROR if their pick would be a centerpiece in a deal. Unlike Patches ROR fills a huge need for the Islanders in the sense he kills penalties and can win faceoffs, he makes a great insurance policy if Tavares signs elsewhere, and if we sign Tavares all of a sudden the Islanders have the best center depth in the league(with the exception of the Penguins)

O'Reilly would be an asset, for sure...but how does that help in the Tavares-situation ?

O'Reilly has much more appeal for me as a center than a winger. Don't get me wrong, he would be a solid two-way player no matter what position you're playing him. But if I'm Tavares, I'm much more excited at the idea of playing with a sniper like Pacioretty on the wing than a solid two-way converted centerman ala O'Reilly. And if acquired to be used as a center...then I begin to wonder if I still have my place on that team. Not that O'Reilly would eat any of my icetime, but with O'Reilly and Barzal as centermen...what's my role ? Where do I fit in that plan ? And who am I going to play with ?

If I'm Lamoriello, and the price is the same...I'm more interested in Pacioretty than O'Reilly right now...especially if Pacioretty can get signed for less than the $7.5m per O'Reilly makes right now.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Oh no... we could be forced to keep one of the top 20 centers in hockey for another year of his prime???? Whatever shall we do? Lol

Find a way to bring his love of the game back, maybe?

 

[boredmale]

O'Reilly would be an asset, for sure...but how does that help in the Tavares-situation ?

O'Reilly has much more appeal for me as a center than a winger. Don't get me wrong, he would be a solid two-way player no matter what position you're playing him. But if I'm Tavares, I'm much more excited at the idea of playing with a sniper like Pacioretty on the wing than a solid two-way converted centerman ala O'Reilly. And if acquired to be used as a center...then I begin to wonder if I still have my place on that team. Not that O'Reilly would eat any of my icetime, but with O'Reilly and Barzal as centermen...what's my role ? Where do I fit in that plan ? And who am I going to play with ?

If I'm Lamoriello, and the price is the same...I'm more interested in Pacioretty than O'Reilly right now...especially if Pacioretty can get signed for less than the $7.5m per O'Reilly makes right now.

We already have 40 goal scorer Lee, Bailey could play LW if need be. Beauvillier is climbing up the left wing charts. Nelson should be playing Left Wing. Oh yeah we are wasting 5.5M on Ladd. Then we have Bellows and a host of other left wingers we have drafted over the past few drafts.

I think we have enough left wings. Now a guy who can fix our 3rd line center issue which I identify as one of our 3 big holes on the team(I am not saying ROR is a 3rd liner but just imagine having such great depth in that one position that a guy who could potentially be a #1 else where is centering our third line). If Tavares is worried about how the team is built he is looking for us to get a good goalie, improve the defense and find a Solid guy to center our 3rd line more then trying to find somebody to replace Anders Lee.

 

[normaliswear]

Hmm...where did I hear that line agian? Oh yea every time someone gets ******** that no one is overvaluing a player that is rumored to be available from your team.

I guess I just need to be a homer if I'm going to understand this mentality. Like it makes absolutely no sense...Sabres fans are all basically like "Either we get an overpayment or we keep him"...because that's how trading works, whoever picks up the phone first loses the deal right?

Why is this hard to understand? There are different situations in trading. For example, at the deadline the Sabres HAD to take whatever they could get for kane. Even if they thought the offer was lower than his worth. His contract was up, he wasn't getting extended, it was trade him or get nothing. This situation is nothing like that. ROR is 27 and under contract for 5 seasons. If no trade offer makes the team better than just keeping him would, they don't trade him. I guess I'd have to be a homer to not grasp that. The sabres don't exist to help Montreal fix their center issues without giving up anything of value. Sorry if that comes as a shock.

 

[Mattilaus]

Hmm...where did I hear that line agian? Oh yea every time someone gets ******** that no one is overvaluing a player that is rumored to be available from your team.

I guess I just need to be a homer if I'm going to understand this mentality. Like it makes absolutely no sense...Sabres fans are all basically like "Either we get an overpayment or we keep him"...because that's how trading works, whoever picks up the phone first loses the deal right?

Since this seems so stupid, you should be able to easily explain why the Sabres NEED to move ROR for an underpayment then. This is a unique situation where a team has a top C signed for 5 more years, all through his prime, and lots of cap space to keep him should they choose to. The fact that they are willing to trade him doesn`t mean they need to in this circumstance.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Ehhh I think that stuff is highly overrated when compared to talent. The sabres were awful last year because they were back in 2014. They were awful because Beaulieu, Falk, Jacobson, Etc etc were regulars on the ice. The pens were so bad they picked in the top few picks for several years in a row. And when Crosby and Malkin came in suddenly their "culture" got loads better.

We are getting off topic here but with the new lottery rules, it takes a lot of luck to acquire a franchise-altering player like Crosby. Tanking was more beneficial back then.