Sportsnet: Patches to NYI, ROR to MTL almost happened @ Draft

[Bazeek]

So, Bob McKenzie, who on round 1 draft night said, Jason Botterill wanted 5he 3rd overall pick, but Berg wouldn't do it, and continued to SAY Botterill wasn't moving O'Reilly for any further offers tonight, where Dregger said he's hearing the same basically was wrong?
LOL, McKenzie is not known for putting out falsehoods.

Playing devil's advocate here, but if that was specifically regarding Montreal it's possible that Botterill wasn't interested in lowering his ask from #3 to whatever Montreal had available for trade at that time. It's possible Botterill was open to lowering it from #3 to something like #11+.

Personally I think the difference between #3 and #11 is greater than two 2nds, but it's hard to say.

Edit: To state this another way, Botterill's "red line" might not have been #3 specifically. Maybe it was #5 or #7+ or #11++, but Montreal had to figure out a way to get one of those pieces before it could make an offer that didn't include #3.

 

[Hostile Offer]

On a side note. Habs fans... do you even want this trade? Buffalo doesn't want Pacioretty because he's either in decline or soon to decline and doesn't fit the Sabres timetable. But Montreal is at least as bad off. ROR is a very VERY good player at a position you desperately need. But he probably only lifts them from Embarrassing to below average. Why not sell of Pacioretty, Weber, Price etc and embrace the rebuild?

Developing youth by putting them into roles far too hard for them is rarely a good plan.

 

[normaliswear]

man, some buffalo fans are refusing to accept the reality that O’Rielly was about to get traded for a 1st and two second rounders. How are you gonna say “nah, even tho the report said it was only that, there were definitely more pieces involved because I dont wanna accept that O’Rielly isnt worth that much” huh???

Omg you people are delusional. Multiple reports say the Sabres held firm at 3. The supposed trade doesn't make sense for the NYI or Buff. And it's obviously come from just a Canadien source... but you want to cling to this one version as if it's gospel.

 

[Gandalf The Habs Fan]

As a habs fan...the good news is we are gonna be a lotery team if we wont get help!

 

[Yatzhee]

Playing devil's advocate here, but if that was specifically regarding Montreal it's possible that Botterill wasn't interested in lowering his ask from #3 to whatever Montreal had available for trade at that time. It's possible Botterill was open to lowering it from #3 to something like #11+.

Personally I think the difference between #3 and #11 is greater than two 2nds, but it's hard to say.

I'm not doubting the offer was made, I'm saying others within the insider circle stated Botterill, once the 3rd overall was selected, wasn't moving ROR that night.
And they appear to be correc5, because ROR didn't get moved.

 

[normaliswear]

Developing youth by putting them into roles far too hard for them is rarely a good plan.

Fair enough, but you could just sign lesser vets and keep your youth developing while getting many more assets for your vet quality players.

 

[Brunomics]

If Wahlstrom and Dobson didn't drop to us I think I would have pulled the trigger. But thank god they did because I like both of those guys a lot more than patches.

 

[rodney dangerfield]

Omg you people are delusional. Multiple reports say the Sabres held firm at 3. The supposed trade doesn't make sense for the NYI or Buff. And it's obviously come from just a Canadien source... but you want to cling to this one version as if it's gospel.

It seems your the delusional one according to most people in this thread...

 

[seabass45]

I dunno it really sounds more likely that Bergeron leaked this to save face.

 

[saintunspecified]

Omg you people are delusional. Multiple reports say the Sabres held firm at 3. The supposed trade doesn't make sense for the NYI or Buff. And it's obviously come from just a Canadien source... but you want to cling to this one version as if it's gospel.

If #11 or #12 + would be enough for a team to acquire O'Reilly, NYI could've acquired O'Reilly pending the Tavares negotiation. Why are the Habs even necessary?

This just doesn't make any sense. It's humbug.

 

[Beerz]

man, some buffalo fans are refusing to accept the reality that O’Rielly was about to get traded for a 1st and two second rounders. How are you gonna say “nah, even tho the report said it was only that, there were definitely more pieces involved because I dont wanna accept that O’Rielly isnt worth that much” huh??? Plus the article said it was agreed to until NYI backed out because Wahlstrom and Dobson were there

Its speculation not fact.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Fair enough, but you could just sign lesser vets and keep your youth developing while getting many more assets for your vet quality players.

I don't think there's much of a market right now for Weber or Price, both of whom are signed to expensive deals and struggled with injuries last year. I'd also much rather have Weber eat up those big minutes and mentor the kids than some "lesser vet".

 

[Bazeek]

If #11 or #12 + would be enough for a team to acquire O'Reilly, NYI could've acquired O'Reilly pending the Tavares negotiation. Why are the Habs even necessary?

This just doesn't make any sense. It's humbug.

That's a fair point, but if we're talking about 2018 picks and the Islanders' interest in O'Reilly depends on whether or not Tavares returns they're going to hit an order of operations problem.

 

[normaliswear]

I don't think there's much of a market right now for Weber or Price, both of whom are signed to expensive deals and struggled with injuries last year. I'd also much rather have Weber eat up those big minutes and mentor the kids than some "lesser vet".

Still brings me back to my original question, do you even want this trade? Even if it had been just 3 picks (not a chance lol), those are picks that could be part of your future as opposed to a mediocre present.

 

[strongcomp05]

Seems hab fans are looking at this wrong. As if ROR to Montreal will happen, it's just a matter of the price. See, Buffalo has no need to help you. Unless a real package is done, they are fine keeping him.

i mean this is pretty obvious lol. Habs will add to patches, but it wont be a 2019 1st

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Well, at least we can put the Pacioretty as a center piece for ROR stuff to bed now.

Clearly that isn't a trade Buffalo is interested in making, otherwise there'd have been no need to send Patches to the NYI.

 

[saintunspecified]

That's a fair point, but if we're talking about 2018 picks and the Islanders' interest in O'Reilly depends on whether or not Tavares returns they're going to hit an order of operations problem.

Insurance policies don't lose all their value if they're not needed. Just some of it. And an insurance policy at C is better than another scoring LW for NYI who have Lee, Beauvillier, Nelson, and Ladd.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Really don't understand why the Isles would be going after Patches.

Makes me more worried about JT tbh

 

[Bazeek]

Insurance policies don't lose all their value if they're not needed. Just some of it.

True. A little risky to approach it that way, but Tavares is a risky situation anyway and it's not like top-6 centers are ever not in demand.

 

[Habset]

Still brings me back to my original question, do you even want this trade? Even if it had been just 3 picks (not a chance lol), those are picks that could be part of your future as opposed to a mediocre present.

Most Habs fans that I know would have prefered keeping the pick and building for the future. Lot's of fans are smart enough to know we're not going anywhere with this team and would rather sell our assets and rebuild.

 

[Djp]

Canadiens' Bergevin came close to hitting all marks during draft weekend - Sportsnet.ca

Basically the Habs were going to trade Max for one of the 1st rounders from the Islanders, and flip that to Buffalo for ROR, but the Islanders pulled out when they had the options to draft who they did.

Interesting in theory, Sabres fans wanted 3OA but seems like the deal would have been done around a lot less.

I wonder if this is something that still happens in some capacity.

Likely 12OA + ,prospect ..similar to Staal trade.

 

[jfhabs]

No way a deal was close to that. 11 could have been a piece of a trade, but obviously not the center. Maybe it was Mete, Scherbak, 11, and 2 2nds or something in that area. Teams could discuss the picks that almost happened after, but would keep a lid on the players almost dealt.

Yea right. ROR isn't that valuable.

 

[CodeE]

Interesting. Little bit of fan fiction here, but I think all the pieces fit:

So last offseason, a rumored trade between the Islanders and Toronto swapping Hamonic for JVR+ is rescinded when JVR won't agree to an extension. Patches goes into the draft with Pat Brisson as his agent. Brisson, who as JT's agent has spent the past month heavily involved with the Islanders front office. Discussions happen pre-draft, and Patches agrees to an extension, homeboy's from Connecticut after all one ferry ride away from where they grew up.

For the Islanders - we expect one top player to be there at 11, not so sure about 12. Lou's probably not that high on guys like Hayton or Kravtsov, but Montreal licks their chops to get another high-end center prospect. So a deal is reached - 12th overall for a extended Patches, but Lou's gonna wait to see how the draft board goes.

1st - The Hayton pick pushes a lot of top guys down the board, so while Buffalo couldn't get #3 for ROR, they start talking about the possibility of pairing one Wahlstrom, Dobson, Bouchard with Dahlin and if that would be an acceptable return for ROR. Montreal offers more (hence all the talk between Botterill and Bergevin on the draft floor) with Montreal offering the 12th overall for ROR and Buffalo gradually growing more interested.

2nd - Rangers pick Kravtsov, and eventually Islanders scouts start to panic as they realize Edmonton and their RHD-hungry squad will certainly take whichever of Bouchard and Dobson they prefer. So trades off, no Patches to NYI, no ROR to Buffalo. Patches isn't happy, as he was under the impression he'd get traded to the Islanders, so once again Bergevin tries to shop him elsewhere, and ends up with the Kings offer. Which Bergevin likes, but Brisson can't get Kings management to pony up the same term and/or AAV that the Isles were offering him. Whatever was being offered was unacceptable, and having got jerked in the wind twice on the same day, promptly fires Brisson, knowing Walsh would happily represent him with one phone call.

 

[normaliswear]

i mean this is pretty obvious lol. Habs will add to patches, but it wont be a 2019 1st

It's pretty doubtful a ROR trade with these teams happens at all. But if it were it won't be JUST a 2019 1st... and it won't be Pacioretty to Buffalo.

 

[normaliswear]

Yea right. ROR isn't that valuable.

Completely fine... Buffalo keeps him or looks for a trade partner elsewhere.