Overrated Prospect Pool

[Do Make Say Think]

So Tierney had worse line mates, less PP time, less 5-on-5 time, the 2nd most PK minutes among forwards on the team, yet he still managed to get more points than anyone not named Stone, Duchene, or Chabot???

You're not making a good case for Tierney being bad, my friend....

No one needs to make that case: Tierney is so mediocre he is painful to watch. He's not unlike Boro in that he is a very low impact player, one best to ignore and be pleased when he does something well. Unlike Boro he is capable with the puck (being a forward), that's all there is to it.

If you have Tierney in your top 6, you aren't going anywhere.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I like those lines, but Paul will not make this team. I think Sabourin may take the spot.

Paul did absolutely nothing to warrant a look past training camp and preseason here. This was his last shot imo. If it was me, he'd be on his way down to Belleville. No way anyone puts in a claim on him.

 

[Sens]

If Sabourin makes this team... the Sens prospect group is amongst the worst in the league

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

If Sabourin makes this team... the Sens prospect group is amongst the worst in the league

Lol he ain't making the team. Enough with the hyperbole.

 

[BonkTastic]

If Sabourin makes this team... the Sens prospect group is amongst the worst in the league

I still fail to see what Sabourin brings to this team, other than the sheer desperation of a bad hockey player realizing his "best-before" date as a pro hockey player is about to expire without having played a single NHL game.

 

[Korpse]

Honestly I'm not president of his fan club or anything, but this is it for him. You might as well start him with the big club to see what he can do with regular minutes before jettisoning him for nothing. With the amount of time invested in his development already, it would be foolish not to see what he's got with a regular shift for an extended amount of games.

If you're ever going to do it, this year is the year to do it.

I mean he’s had opportunity after opportunity. He’s 24 years old going into his 5th year of pro hockey. He’s had 3 different stints in Ottawa and really hasn’t shown on any consistent basis that he is an NHL player. And here we are in the preseason and he once again looks like he doesn’t belong. I think it’s time to stop looking at Paul as an NHL prospect.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I still fail to see what Sabourin brings to this team, other than the sheer desperation of a bad hockey player realizing his "best-before" date as a pro hockey player is about to expire without having played a single NHL game.

I think Dj is giving him a last hurrah for the memories.

He ain’t going to be here.

 

[Micklebot]

If Sabourin makes this team... the Sens prospect group is amongst the worst in the league

If he were to make the team, it wouldn't be because he is better than the other prospects, it would be because the other prospects are better served developing elsewhere (AHL, CHL, wherever) and the team could care less about hindering his development.

A player making the team ≠ that player being the best or even among the best prospects in the system.

 

[Micklebot]

If the goal is to ice an objectively bad team in the hopes that we lose enough games in order to get a high draft pick, then I'm all for Sabourin to make this team.

In any other scenario - dear god, please, no.

'member when Lessard was called up after the deadline? We left guys like Wick, O'Brien, Daugavins, Keller, and Locke down in Bingo in part because we cared more about Bingo's performance than Ottawa's at that point.

Same thing could happen here I guess.

 

[Engineer]

I honestly don't care if Sabourin makes the team. If that means leaving unripe prospects in the AHL to develop them properly, then I'm all for it.

My brother also played AA with him, so it would be cool to see another player he played with make the NHL (the other being Gudbranson).

 

[coladin]

I still fail to see what Sabourin brings to this team, other than the sheer desperation of a bad hockey player realizing his "best-before" date as a pro hockey player is about to expire without having played a single NHL game.

He skates, he hits, he fights. Just your typical 4th line player. No one left does that. And do we want Brady sticking up for players? It may be just him some nights when guys are running around. I mean, it is a 7 minute to 10 minute job, no PK, no PP, and a guy like Parker Kelly who I am high on, is just not ready as many others for NHL action.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

He skates, he hits, he fights. Just your typical 4th line player. No one left does that. And do we want Brady sticking up for players? It may be just him some nights when guys are running around. I mean, it is a 7 minute to 10 minute job, no PK, no PP, and a guy like Parker Kelly who I am high on, is just not ready as many others for NHL action.

That's not really what a typical 4th liner is anymore. If you're not killing penalties or contributing some offense, you're just wasting space and putting extra pressure on the top end players to play more tougher minutes.

St. Louis Blues - Boston Bruins - May 27th, 2019

Look at the 24 forwards suited up for the Stanley Cup final game one. The closest thing to what you're describing is Patrick Maroon and that guy is pretty much a lock for around 10 goals a year. Guys like Sabourin don't exist in the NHL in 2019. Your "typical 4th liner" today looks like Oscar Sundqvist or Sean Kuraly.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

'member when Lessard was called up after the deadline? We left guys like Wick, O'Brien, Daugavins, Keller, and Locke down in Bingo in part because we cared more about Bingo's performance than Ottawa's at that point.

Same thing could happen here I guess.

After Belleville not making the playoffs last year, in no small part due to a bad start, giving that team all the support they can makes sense. Failing to qualify was a huge kick in the balls.

 

[Micklebot]

That's not really what a typical 4th liner is anymore. If you're not killing penalties or contributing some offense, you're just wasting space and putting extra pressure on the top end players to play more tougher minutes.

St. Louis Blues - Boston Bruins - May 27th, 2019

Look at the 24 forwards suited up for the Stanley Cup final game one. The closest thing to what you're describing is Patrick Maroon and that guy is pretty much a lock for around 10 goals a year. Guys like Sabourin don't exist in the NHL in 2019. Your "typical 4th liner" today looks like Oscar Sundqvist or Sean Kuraly.

I'd hesitate to compare 4th liners on SC final teams to your average league wide 4th liners

For one, you're looking at the best teams in the league. Secondly, playoff rosters almost always have guys added at the deadline that would push out otherwise typical 4th liners.

That's not to say Sabourin is the same quality as a typical 4th liner, but the methodology here is pretty flawed. Typical 4th liners imo should be compared to those 4th liners that are good for 40 to 60 games, not the guys that are locks to play all 82 if healthy.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Sundqvist was an absolute beauty of a fourth line player for the Blues. The 18-19 Blues were a very good, very deep team.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I'd hesitate to compare 4th liners on SC final teams to your average league wide 4th liners

For one, you're looking at the best teams in the league. Secondly, playoff rosters almost always have guys added at the deadline that would push out otherwise typical 4th liners.

That's not to say Sabourin is the same quality as a typical 4th liner, but the methodology here is pretty flawed. Typical 4th liners imo should be compared to those 4th liners that are good for 40 to 60 games, not the guys that are locks to play all 82 if healthy.

Sure, I mean that's the bar we should be looking to imo. If we wanna look at average to below average teams, we can probably do that with just about any one.

Random team: New Jersey Devils. 4th liners: Brian Boyle. 8:57 of ES ice time a game, 13 goals in 47 games, plays a ton of special teams. Kevin Rooney 41 GP, 12:37 TOI/G, 6 goals, Drew Stafford 57 GP, 12:16. Typical 4th line from a below average team.

I'd wager that any good team has the types of guys I was talking about that the Blues and Bruins have.

 

[Ouroboros]

I've made some jokes about it in other threads, but to be honest I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Sens signed Sabu to be their 13th forward. Who else at camp fills the role? You wouldn't keep young, waiver exempt players like Chlapik, Brown, Abramov, or Kelly in the pressbox in the NHL.

So that basically leaves Nick Paul and Sabu, and I just can't see a role for Paul in the NHL. What does he do? He's not going to be a scorer, he's been a disaster on the PK during pre-season, he isn't physical, he doesn't fight. He's just...nothing.

So I can see Sabu getting role. Yeah - he's not a good player, but we don't have a good team so it hardly matters. Let Sabu run wild.

There are some Matt Carkner parallels I think. He was a guy in his late 20's who had pretty much never played an NHL game [maybe 1?] who just sort of made the Sens roster one year unexpectedly. I remember he took the job away from human Q-tip Brian Lee which caused much gnashing of teeth on here.

Also - the wimps on Sens twitter are already wringing their hands about the possibilty of this guy making the team, and anything that puts those guys on life tilt is good in my books.

 

[Silencio]

Having Sabourin would be worth it just to drive Auston Matthews batty every time we play the Leafs.

 

[BondraTime]

Having Sabourin would be worth it just to drive Auston Matthews batty every time we play the Leafs.

Don't think he ever would. If they are on the ice together we messed up somewhere and will likely be scored on.

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, I mean that's the bar we should be looking to imo. If we wanna look at average to below average teams, we can probably do that with just about any one.

Random team: New Jersey Devils. 4th liners: Brian Boyle. 8:57 of ES ice time a game, 13 goals in 47 games, plays a ton of special teams. Kevin Rooney 41 GP, 12:37 TOI/G, 6 goals, Drew Stafford 57 GP, 12:16. Typical 4th line from a below average team.

I'd wager that any good team has the types of guys I was talking about that the Blues and Bruins have.

Eh, there are still loads of guys that play most of the season and only put up around 15 pts. Of course we would rather have our 4th liners match up with the ones top teams have, but this season I'm not really concerned about insuring the filler in the lineup is competitive.

Again, I'm not saying Sabourin is your typical 4th liner, just that typical doesn't really describe the guys you referenced.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That tag team hit by Szwarz and Sabourin on Fantenberg was right out of Slap Shot. Sabourin reminds me of one of those Hanson brothers... have to find two more and they'll pack the place.

 

[Micklebot]

That tag team hit by Szwarz and Sabourin on Fantenberg was right out of Slap Shot. Sabourin reminds me of one of those Hanson brothers... have to find two more and they'll pack the place.

Our budget can't afford that much tinfoil...

 

[bert]

If he were to make the team, it wouldn't be because he is better than the other prospects, it would be because the other prospects are better served developing elsewhere (AHL, CHL, wherever) and the team could care less about hindering his development.

A player making the team ≠ that player being the best or even among the best prospects in the system.

Good post, plus he is bringing an element of tougheness and he can skate. He gets the puck in deep he knows his role, the team is still young there is nothing wrong with having this type of player in the lineup in case veteran teams and players start taking advantage.

 

[Crosside]

That tag team hit by Szwarz and Sabourin on Fantenberg was right out of Slap Shot. Sabourin reminds me of one of those Hanson brothers... have to find two more and they'll pack the place.

What is funny is Sabourin hit Fantenberg with is elbow and is Szwarz take the 5 and game

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What is funny is Sabourin hit Fantenberg with is elbow and is Szwarz take the 5 and game

Fantemberg was pretty screwed there no matter what way he turned. If not Szwarz then Sabourin or vice versa.